All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years
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@canefan said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Kirifi reminds me of Kwaga Smith. He's a tough character and punches above his weight but I think he only works because there is always at least one 120kg other guy in the backrow to balance things out.
Serious bench option, he would be good against tiring packs, would empty the tank in 25 minutes
we don't sub at 55 mins, we sub at 65-70 mins and wonder why our subs can't get in the game.
we're playing by 2015 thinking
@mariner4life said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@canefan said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Kirifi reminds me of Kwaga Smith. He's a tough character and punches above his weight but I think he only works because there is always at least one 120kg other guy in the backrow to balance things out.
Serious bench option, he would be good against tiring packs, would empty the tank in 25 minutes
we don't sub at 55 mins, we sub at 65-70 mins and wonder why our subs can't get in the game.
we're playing by 2015 thinking
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@canefan said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Kirifi reminds me of Kwaga Smith. He's a tough character and punches above his weight but I think he only works because there is always at least one 120kg other guy in the backrow to balance things out.
Serious bench option, he would be good against tiring packs, would empty the tank in 25 minutes
we don't sub at 55 mins, we sub at 65-70 mins and wonder why our subs can't get in the game.
we're playing by 2015 thinking
@mariner4life but 2015 is the template for success, no need to change.
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@mariner4life but 2015 is the template for success, no need to change.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@mariner4life but 2015 is the template for success, no need to change.
explains a few things. Beaudy continuing to get picked etc
oh shit he came on at 65 mins as well!!!
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@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
Yep - and that kinda brings us full circle - back to an extended version of @Mauss original point - that it looks like we just don't know what we want from our 6 when we keep alternating between picking tight and loose ones.
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Luke Jacobson has never been given a proper starting run for the All Blacks
Also, he hasn't started that often in his better positions (8 or 7). I don't think LJ is a 6, and he never plays there for the Chiefs.
As you know, given the way the Chiefs play and our options I think he’s clearly the best 7 we have, and at international level the ABs don’t really attack the ball at the breakdown, so he’s arguably a good Cane replacement. Paps and Blackadder are pretty similar players.
He's undoubtedly the best Cane replacement we have, but I'm not at all sure that like for like is our best option.
It really depends on what kind of game we’ll play. If we want to replicate the Chiefs quick ball , high movement game plan then we should pick players who meet those needs. Right now I honestly cant really say with any confidence what Razor et al are trying to do out there, which seems to be half the problem.
Set game plan, pick accordingly.
Yep - and that kinda brings us full circle - back to an extended version of @Mauss original point - that it looks like we just don't know what we want from our 6 when we keep alternating between picking tight and loose ones.
There’s an extended version to @Mauss point? Not sure if there is enough bandwidth on the Fern server for the extended version
Jokes….
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@frugby said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
If we want impact off the bench, then Big Jim is the way to go, but it won’t happen.
I don't think it comes down to any one player. You need multiple impact players off the bench instead of players who just cover for injury.
If you look at 2015 RWC we were stacked with players who offered impact:
HK 16 Keven Mealamu upward-facing green arrow 65'
PR 17 Ben Franks upward-facing green arrow 59'
PR 18 Charlie Faumuina upward-facing green arrow 54'
N8 19 Victor Vito upward-facing green arrow 71'
FL 20 Sam Cane upward-facing green arrow 80'
SH 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow upward-facing green arrow 71'
FH 22 Beauden Barrett upward-facing green arrow 65'
CE 23 Sonny Bill Williams upward-facing green arrow 40'We started bringing them on in the 40th minute.
We need multiple impact players and we need to bring them on earlier.
Considering the players who are fit a bench like this could offer such impact:
- Taukei'aho/Aumua
- Numia/Fusitu'a
- Tosi
- Tuipulotu
- Kirifi/Finau/Sititi/Sotutu/Savea
- Ratima/Hotham
- Love/Mckenzie
- Tavatavanawai/Lam/Tupaea
Not so much impact with the likes of these:
De Groot, Newell, Jacobson, Papali'i, Havili, ALB.
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@frugby said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
If we want impact off the bench, then Big Jim is the way to go, but it won’t happen.
I don't think it comes down to any one player. You need multiple impact players off the bench instead of players who just cover for injury.
If you look at 2015 RWC we were stacked with players who offered impact:
HK 16 Keven Mealamu upward-facing green arrow 65'
PR 17 Ben Franks upward-facing green arrow 59'
PR 18 Charlie Faumuina upward-facing green arrow 54'
N8 19 Victor Vito upward-facing green arrow 71'
FL 20 Sam Cane upward-facing green arrow 80'
SH 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow upward-facing green arrow 71'
FH 22 Beauden Barrett upward-facing green arrow 65'
CE 23 Sonny Bill Williams upward-facing green arrow 40'We started bringing them on in the 40th minute.
We need multiple impact players and we need to bring them on earlier.
Considering the players who are fit a bench like this could offer such impact:
- Taukei'aho/Aumua
- Numia/Fusitu'a
- Tosi
- Tuipulotu
- Kirifi/Finau/Sititi/Sotutu/Savea
- Ratima/Hotham
- Love/Mckenzie
- Tavatavanawai/Lam/Tupaea
Not so much impact with the likes of these:
De Groot, Newell, Jacobson, Papali'i, Havili, ALB.
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Whilst I agree with the main point here, Ben Franks wasn't exactly Mr Impact - there is no need to choose these players only on their ability to affect play through ball running etc - we still need cleaners and a strong set piece.
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Parsons mentioned on Aotearoa Rugby Pod that he would pick Savea, Sititi, Kirifi and Jacobsen as his first four choices in the loose and then said the last two were up in the air. Blackadder, Lakai, Finau, Papali'i and Parker are all obvious options that could be in the frame.
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@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 Some might say that Ben was very dynamic with his carries compared to Owen.
Barry Schwartz says the secret to happiness is low expectations.
Ben Franks was an excellent cleaner and incredibly mobile around the field.
I think there are 4 or 5 in here, one which saves the movement.
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@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 Some might say that Ben was very dynamic with his carries compared to Owen.
Barry Schwartz says the secret to happiness is low expectations.
Ben Franks was an excellent cleaner and incredibly mobile around the field.
I think there are 4 or 5 in here, one which saves the movement.
@gt12 said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 Some might say that Ben was very dynamic with his carries compared to Owen.
Barry Schwartz says the secret to happiness is low expectations.
Ben Franks was an excellent cleaner and incredibly mobile around the field.
I think there are 4 or 5 in here, one which saves the movement.
One would think both Franks brothers would have been considerably more impressive with the ball in hand considering how into their explosive weightlifting they were
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@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@gt12 Some might say that Ben was very dynamic with his carries compared to Owen.
Barry Schwartz says the secret to happiness is low expectations.
Ben Franks was an excellent cleaner and incredibly mobile around the field.
I think there are 4 or 5 in here, one which saves the movement.
@gt12 the bash brothers came off the bench that game and just smashed any green jersey at the breakdown. Was one of the features of the final phases.
On the topic of bench impact and use of, in that match we made the following:
Starters: Dagg; Jane, B Smith, Nonu, Savea; Cruden, A Smith; Crockett, Hore, Faumuina, Retallick, Whitelock, Luatua, McCaw, Read.
Replacements: Coles for Hore (42), Crotty for Dagg (52), O Franks for Faumuina (56), Messam for Luatua (56), B Franks for Crockett (60), Barrett for Jane (66).
Not Used: Cane, Perenara.
Messam got more than a quarter to do his thing. A quality set of front row replacements had already worked up a lather by the time the final 10 minutes hit and the intensity went up a few notches.
Having fresh legs is one thing but expecting a forward to come on with less than 10 minutes and perform at a high level is tough even with the most talented player. They need a bit of time to get into it and then be firing once the pressure lifts and to close it out.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
Flanders certainly has the skills to hang out on the wing all day.
Flanders to Finau: "you merely adopted the wing. I was born on the wing"
Most tackles and most carries for the Canes vs Brumbies wasn't it?
Don't normally see wingers with those stats...It was a good shift but he does play very wide and he doesn't hit a lot of rucks. Not sure he's the answer if Savea and Sititi are starting.
In the end that kind of contribution didn't win them the game.
The Brumbies dominated the breakdown. They won 6 turnovers and the Canes won 0.
@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
It was a good shift but he does play very wide and he doesn't hit a lot of rucks. Not sure he's the answer if Savea and Sititi are starting.
In the end that kind of contribution didn't win them the game.
The Brumbies dominated the breakdown. They won 6 turnovers and the Canes won 0.
I actually thought Valetini produced the best blindside performance of the SR season in that game. He just physically bullied the Canes forwards, in the carry (bulldozing Gallagher from the restart), in the clean and even in the maul.
Flanders was good in his own way but he wasn't able to dominate the collisions in the way Valetini was able to. Having a guy like that would go some way to solving the loose forward combinations, I think.
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@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
It was a good shift but he does play very wide and he doesn't hit a lot of rucks. Not sure he's the answer if Savea and Sititi are starting.
In the end that kind of contribution didn't win them the game.
The Brumbies dominated the breakdown. They won 6 turnovers and the Canes won 0.
I actually thought Valetini produced the best blindside performance of the SR season in that game. He just physically bullied the Canes forwards, in the carry (bulldozing Gallagher from the restart), in the clean and even in the maul.
Flanders was good in his own way but he wasn't able to dominate the collisions in the way Valetini was able to. Having a guy like that would go some way to solving the loose forward combinations, I think.
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@brodean said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
It was a good shift but he does play very wide and he doesn't hit a lot of rucks. Not sure he's the answer if Savea and Sititi are starting.
In the end that kind of contribution didn't win them the game.
The Brumbies dominated the breakdown. They won 6 turnovers and the Canes won 0.
I actually thought Valetini produced the best blindside performance of the SR season in that game. He just physically bullied the Canes forwards, in the carry (bulldozing Gallagher from the restart), in the clean and even in the maul.
Flanders was good in his own way but he wasn't able to dominate the collisions in the way Valetini was able to. Having a guy like that would go some way to solving the loose forward combinations, I think.
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Yeah he is at the things that matter.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, bobby valetini is the best loose forward in Australasia and its not close.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks - loosie selections in recent years:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, bobby valetini is the best loose forward in Australasia and its not close.
I wouldn’t pick any Australian in a combined ANZAC team….except Valetini
