2025 All Blacks v France series
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@ploughboy said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
rugbypass have LJ with 17 tackle and EB with 16 . LJ spent 10 mins + off field
Yeah but did not the Crusaders have more ball which balances out the tackle rate.
That is the problem with stats they can be bent anyway you like to make an argument.
Stats have a place but they are not the be all in selection as they are relevant to the situation they are recorded. -
@ploughboy said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
rugbypass have LJ with 17 tackle and EB with 16 . LJ spent 10 mins + off field
Yeah, and the week before EB made 30 and the next best from either team was 19.
This week he made a lot of carries. -
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I can see how they like Norris, he's a physical presence around the field. I hope they can help him refine his scrummaging.
Shame Ah Kuoi wasn't looked at as lock/6, small for a lock but quite athletic and hardworking methinks.
It's interesting the views on Blackadder in the final, he was a workhorse as always but didn't look that impactful or dominant or particularly speedy to my eye, but I wasn't looking particularly out for him.
If I had time I'd like to go back to see if the Chiefs when off the boil as LJ got hit/off the field, the loosies looked far more effective early on I thought.I kept an eye on him, you are correct. and 30 carries for 0.8m is a disgrace
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I can see how they like Norris, he's a physical presence around the field. I hope they can help him refine his scrummaging.
Shame Ah Kuoi wasn't looked at as lock/6, small for a lock but quite athletic and hardworking methinks.
It's interesting the views on Blackadder in the final, he was a workhorse as always but didn't look that impactful or dominant or particularly speedy to my eye, but I wasn't looking particularly out for him.
If I had time I'd like to go back to see if the Chiefs when off the boil as LJ got hit/off the field, the loosies looked far more effective early on I thought.I kept an eye on him, you are correct. and 30 carries for 0.8m is a disgrace
Those were phoney stats just made up by a poster that wanted to rant.
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@ploughboy said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
rugbypass have LJ with 17 tackle and EB with 16 . LJ spent 10 mins + off field
Correct according to Super Rugby stats. But, Ethan also had 21 carries to LJ's 8.
A lot of Ethan's were one off the ruck and recycling, which isn't a place you make many metres. I suspect a lot of LJ's were as well, because neither made many metres.
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As an aside it's ridiculous that for a supposed pro competition like Super Rugby there's not a central stats database.
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
As an aside it's ridiculous that for a supposed pro competition like Super Rugby there's not a central stats database.
Yep 100 % you can find heaps of different stats for the same player in the same game depending on which site you look on.
Which renders them all useless. -
@george33 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Didn't Razor say in interview that Locks can play 6 ?
A lock may cover 6. He didn’t say which one or how it would work.
I think it first points to Finau, the jersey is there for the taking, you’re still young and we will give you every opportunity.
If Parker were fit I think it’s
2x 6s - Finau / Parker
2x 7s - Ardie / Kirifi
1x 8s - Sititi
1x utility - LJ -
@george33 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Didn't Razor say in interview that Locks can play 6 ?
A lock may cover 6. He didn’t say which one or how it would work.
I think it first points to Finau, the jersey is there for the taking, you’re still young and we will give you every opportunity.
If Parker were fit I think it’s
2x 6s - Finau / Parker
2x 7s - Ardie / Kirifi
1x 8s - Sititi
1x utility - LJ@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
1x 8s - Sititi
The incumbent 6 surely has more utility than just 8...
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@Bones and Beaudie keeping Richie’s seat warm….
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@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Great to see those final two places left open for Frizzel and Faainganuku.
Frizell who just re-signed in Japan for another year
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Great to see those final two places left open for Frizzel and Faainganuku.
Frizell who just re-signed in Japan for another year
There is no need for vicious attacks, spoilsport.
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@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I can see how they like Norris, he's a physical presence around the field. I hope they can help him refine his scrummaging.
Shame Ah Kuoi wasn't looked at as lock/6, small for a lock but quite athletic and hardworking methinks.
It's interesting the views on Blackadder in the final, he was a workhorse as always but didn't look that impactful or dominant or particularly speedy to my eye, but I wasn't looking particularly out for him.
If I had time I'd like to go back to see if the Chiefs when off the boil as LJ got hit/off the field, the loosies looked far more effective early on I thought.I kept an eye on him, you are correct. and 30 carries for 0.8m is a disgrace
Not sure where you are getting those stats from, but was it you who watched him closely in the semi and managed to miss the game high 30 odd tackles?
Someone posted that during the game. As for the tackle count, he may have got 30 odd, but I didn't notice them as they lacked dominance
Tackle counts are not that important. Racking up numbers hitting one off defensive players and being late to attacking rucks doesn't really help win games. It's just avoiding errors. Safe boring players are great, but if you have too many (if any) you can just beige your way out of any impact and dynamism.
So defence doesn’t count then someone can make one tackle per game at that’s all good.
@Chris said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I can see how they like Norris, he's a physical presence around the field. I hope they can help him refine his scrummaging.
Shame Ah Kuoi wasn't looked at as lock/6, small for a lock but quite athletic and hardworking methinks.
It's interesting the views on Blackadder in the final, he was a workhorse as always but didn't look that impactful or dominant or particularly speedy to my eye, but I wasn't looking particularly out for him.
If I had time I'd like to go back to see if the Chiefs when off the boil as LJ got hit/off the field, the loosies looked far more effective early on I thought.I kept an eye on him, you are correct. and 30 carries for 0.8m is a disgrace
Not sure where you are getting those stats from, but was it you who watched him closely in the semi and managed to miss the game high 30 odd tackles?
Someone posted that during the game. As for the tackle count, he may have got 30 odd, but I didn't notice them as they lacked dominance
Tackle counts are not that important. Racking up numbers hitting one off defensive players and being late to attacking rucks doesn't really help win games. It's just avoiding errors. Safe boring players are great, but if you have too many (if any) you can just beige your way out of any impact and dynamism.
So defence doesn’t count then someone can make one tackle per game at that’s all good.
You're twisting what I said. Defence is critical. Tackle counts in isolation are not a yardstick for effectiveness.
EB cops plenty, but not for workrate or commitment. But pointing at a tackle count and saying 'see, awesome' is just not justified. Particularly when players (Clarke) steamroll you the week before
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@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
As an aside it's ridiculous that for a supposed pro competition like Super Rugby there's not a central stats database.
Yep 100 % you can find heaps of different stats for the same player in the same game depending on which site you look on.
Which renders them all useless.I've done some reasonably in-depth analysis with data from RugbyPass and Super.Rugby (which is probably the closest thing to a central database - though seems a little NZ-centric) and it looks to line up very well (as they're both provided by Opta - even the match ids from each game line up).
If there was a site that deviated from these, I'd be a little more skeptical of that site - but Opta seems fairly reliable, for the most part. Some aspects of the recording may be a bit subjective, which would be my guess why other providers might offer different figures. However, the information from past games does seem to be reasonably predictive of future results (though some of my modeling is still in the very early stages). For me, I believe its very useful- though a lot of the information one might want for individual player selection isn't available on any public website I can find.
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@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
1x 8s - Sititi
The incumbent 6 surely has more utility than just 8...
@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
1x 8s - Sititi
The incumbent 6 surely has more utility than just 8...
If we are desperate, which hopefully we won’t be, he could cover that.
I think the trio they went with against France (6-Finau, 7-Savea, 8-Sititi) will be the starting point this season and what they will want to build from.
Italy was a sayonara for Cane so they bought him back for his last AB start and shuffled the deck again.
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@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
1x 8s - Sititi
The incumbent 6 surely has more utility than just 8...
If we are desperate, which hopefully we won’t be, he could cover that.
I think the trio they went with against France (6-Finau, 7-Savea, 8-Sititi) will be the starting point this season and what they will want to build from.
Italy was a sayonara for Cane so they bought him back for his last AB start and shuffled the deck again.
@ACT-Crusader said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
the trio they went with against France
Isn't that the only game we lost? My memory is shithouse.
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@ploughboy said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
rugbypass have LJ with 17 tackle and EB with 16 . LJ spent 10 mins + off field
Yeah but did not the Crusaders have more ball which balances out the tackle rate.
That is the problem with stats they can be bent anyway you like to make an argument.
Stats have a place but they are not the be all in selection as they are relevant to the situation they are recorded.@Chris said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@ploughboy said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
rugbypass have LJ with 17 tackle and EB with 16 . LJ spent 10 mins + off field
Yeah but did not the Crusaders have more ball which balances out the tackle rate.
That is the problem with stats they can be bent anyway you like to make an argument.
Stats have a place but they are not the be all in selection as they are relevant to the situation they are recorded.100% agree just pointing out to some posters that EB was not the highest tackler in the game
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@Chris said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I can see how they like Norris, he's a physical presence around the field. I hope they can help him refine his scrummaging.
Shame Ah Kuoi wasn't looked at as lock/6, small for a lock but quite athletic and hardworking methinks.
It's interesting the views on Blackadder in the final, he was a workhorse as always but didn't look that impactful or dominant or particularly speedy to my eye, but I wasn't looking particularly out for him.
If I had time I'd like to go back to see if the Chiefs when off the boil as LJ got hit/off the field, the loosies looked far more effective early on I thought.I kept an eye on him, you are correct. and 30 carries for 0.8m is a disgrace
Not sure where you are getting those stats from, but was it you who watched him closely in the semi and managed to miss the game high 30 odd tackles?
Someone posted that during the game. As for the tackle count, he may have got 30 odd, but I didn't notice them as they lacked dominance
Tackle counts are not that important. Racking up numbers hitting one off defensive players and being late to attacking rucks doesn't really help win games. It's just avoiding errors. Safe boring players are great, but if you have too many (if any) you can just beige your way out of any impact and dynamism.
So defence doesn’t count then someone can make one tackle per game at that’s all good.
You're twisting what I said. Defence is critical. Tackle counts in isolation are not a yardstick for effectiveness.
EB cops plenty, but not for workrate or commitment. But pointing at a tackle count and saying 'see, awesome' is just not justified. Particularly when players (Clarke) steamroll you the week before
@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Chris said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I can see how they like Norris, he's a physical presence around the field. I hope they can help him refine his scrummaging.
Shame Ah Kuoi wasn't looked at as lock/6, small for a lock but quite athletic and hardworking methinks.
It's interesting the views on Blackadder in the final, he was a workhorse as always but didn't look that impactful or dominant or particularly speedy to my eye, but I wasn't looking particularly out for him.
If I had time I'd like to go back to see if the Chiefs when off the boil as LJ got hit/off the field, the loosies looked far more effective early on I thought.I kept an eye on him, you are correct. and 30 carries for 0.8m is a disgrace
Not sure where you are getting those stats from, but was it you who watched him closely in the semi and managed to miss the game high 30 odd tackles?
Someone posted that during the game. As for the tackle count, he may have got 30 odd, but I didn't notice them as they lacked dominance
Tackle counts are not that important. Racking up numbers hitting one off defensive players and being late to attacking rucks doesn't really help win games. It's just avoiding errors. Safe boring players are great, but if you have too many (if any) you can just beige your way out of any impact and dynamism.
So defence doesn’t count then someone can make one tackle per game at that’s all good.
You're twisting what I said. Defence is critical. Tackle counts in isolation are not a yardstick for effectiveness.
EB cops plenty, but not for workrate or commitment. But pointing at a tackle count and saying 'see, awesome' is just not justified. Particularly when players (Clarke) steamroll you the week before
Nobody on here says awesome about EB - I'm about his staunchest defender on here, and all I say is I don't understand him being rubbished all the time when he performs strongly.
Dominant tackle % Opta stats Super rugby this year:
Parker 14.6%
Finau 11.8%
Savea 7.3%
EB 5.4%, same as CLW.
Kirifi 4.6%
DP 4.3%
LJ 3.8%
Sititi 2.2%Taking into account how many tackles EB makes, it's actually Parker then Finau then him - in terms of dominant tackles per minute.
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@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Chris said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I can see how they like Norris, he's a physical presence around the field. I hope they can help him refine his scrummaging.
Shame Ah Kuoi wasn't looked at as lock/6, small for a lock but quite athletic and hardworking methinks.
It's interesting the views on Blackadder in the final, he was a workhorse as always but didn't look that impactful or dominant or particularly speedy to my eye, but I wasn't looking particularly out for him.
If I had time I'd like to go back to see if the Chiefs when off the boil as LJ got hit/off the field, the loosies looked far more effective early on I thought.I kept an eye on him, you are correct. and 30 carries for 0.8m is a disgrace
Not sure where you are getting those stats from, but was it you who watched him closely in the semi and managed to miss the game high 30 odd tackles?
Someone posted that during the game. As for the tackle count, he may have got 30 odd, but I didn't notice them as they lacked dominance
Tackle counts are not that important. Racking up numbers hitting one off defensive players and being late to attacking rucks doesn't really help win games. It's just avoiding errors. Safe boring players are great, but if you have too many (if any) you can just beige your way out of any impact and dynamism.
So defence doesn’t count then someone can make one tackle per game at that’s all good.
You're twisting what I said. Defence is critical. Tackle counts in isolation are not a yardstick for effectiveness.
EB cops plenty, but not for workrate or commitment. But pointing at a tackle count and saying 'see, awesome' is just not justified. Particularly when players (Clarke) steamroll you the week before
Nobody on here says awesome about EB - I'm about his staunchest defender on here, and all I say is I don't understand him being rubbished all the time when he performs strongly.
Dominant tackle % Opta stats Super rugby this year:
Parker 14.6%
Finau 11.8%
Savea 7.3%
EB 5.4%, same as CLW.
Kirifi 4.6%
DP 4.3%
LJ 3.8%
Sititi 2.2%Taking into account how many tackles EB makes, it's actually Parker then Finau then him - in terms of dominant tackles per minute.
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Nobody on here says awesome about EB - I'm about his staunchest defender on here, and all I say is I don't understand him being rubbished all the time when he performs strongly.
Think of it as the antithesis of the hype he gets in the media. Truth lies somewhere in the middle.
