2025 All Blacks v France series
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I think we may well see Holland start the first test at Lock with either Scooter or Tupou Vaii starting at 6.
@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I think we may well see Holland start the first test at Lock with either Scooter or Tupou Vaii starting at 6.
I think that's unlikely if they went to the trouble of picking Finau in is specialist position.
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@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Chris said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I can see how they like Norris, he's a physical presence around the field. I hope they can help him refine his scrummaging.
Shame Ah Kuoi wasn't looked at as lock/6, small for a lock but quite athletic and hardworking methinks.
It's interesting the views on Blackadder in the final, he was a workhorse as always but didn't look that impactful or dominant or particularly speedy to my eye, but I wasn't looking particularly out for him.
If I had time I'd like to go back to see if the Chiefs when off the boil as LJ got hit/off the field, the loosies looked far more effective early on I thought.I kept an eye on him, you are correct. and 30 carries for 0.8m is a disgrace
Not sure where you are getting those stats from, but was it you who watched him closely in the semi and managed to miss the game high 30 odd tackles?
Someone posted that during the game. As for the tackle count, he may have got 30 odd, but I didn't notice them as they lacked dominance
Tackle counts are not that important. Racking up numbers hitting one off defensive players and being late to attacking rucks doesn't really help win games. It's just avoiding errors. Safe boring players are great, but if you have too many (if any) you can just beige your way out of any impact and dynamism.
So defence doesn’t count then someone can make one tackle per game at that’s all good.
You're twisting what I said. Defence is critical. Tackle counts in isolation are not a yardstick for effectiveness.
EB cops plenty, but not for workrate or commitment. But pointing at a tackle count and saying 'see, awesome' is just not justified. Particularly when players (Clarke) steamroll you the week before
Nobody on here says awesome about EB - I'm about his staunchest defender on here, and all I say is I don't understand him being rubbished all the time when he performs strongly.
Dominant tackle % Opta stats Super rugby this year:
Parker 14.6%
Finau 11.8%
Savea 7.3%
EB 5.4%, same as CLW.
Kirifi 4.6%
DP 4.3%
LJ 3.8%
Sititi 2.2%Taking into account how many tackles EB makes, it's actually Parker then Finau then him - in terms of dominant tackles per minute.
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Chris said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I can see how they like Norris, he's a physical presence around the field. I hope they can help him refine his scrummaging.
Shame Ah Kuoi wasn't looked at as lock/6, small for a lock but quite athletic and hardworking methinks.
It's interesting the views on Blackadder in the final, he was a workhorse as always but didn't look that impactful or dominant or particularly speedy to my eye, but I wasn't looking particularly out for him.
If I had time I'd like to go back to see if the Chiefs when off the boil as LJ got hit/off the field, the loosies looked far more effective early on I thought.I kept an eye on him, you are correct. and 30 carries for 0.8m is a disgrace
Not sure where you are getting those stats from, but was it you who watched him closely in the semi and managed to miss the game high 30 odd tackles?
Someone posted that during the game. As for the tackle count, he may have got 30 odd, but I didn't notice them as they lacked dominance
Tackle counts are not that important. Racking up numbers hitting one off defensive players and being late to attacking rucks doesn't really help win games. It's just avoiding errors. Safe boring players are great, but if you have too many (if any) you can just beige your way out of any impact and dynamism.
So defence doesn’t count then someone can make one tackle per game at that’s all good.
You're twisting what I said. Defence is critical. Tackle counts in isolation are not a yardstick for effectiveness.
EB cops plenty, but not for workrate or commitment. But pointing at a tackle count and saying 'see, awesome' is just not justified. Particularly when players (Clarke) steamroll you the week before
Nobody on here says awesome about EB - I'm about his staunchest defender on here, and all I say is I don't understand him being rubbished all the time when he performs strongly.
Dominant tackle % Opta stats Super rugby this year:
Parker 14.6%
Finau 11.8%
Savea 7.3%
EB 5.4%, same as CLW.
Kirifi 4.6%
DP 4.3%
LJ 3.8%
Sititi 2.2%Taking into account how many tackles EB makes, it's actually Parker then Finau then him - in terms of dominant tackles per minute.
His dominant tackles are clearly from turning up as the second tackler
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Quite surprised and pleased with the selection. Seems that Razor really is being a bit more adventurous, which can only be a good thing.
Happiest with the McAlister selection - he was ready to play for the All Blacks a couple of years ago but was incredibly unlucky with the timing of injuries.
Hoping that the smaller squad does suggest some injured players like Parker and Tangitau might join the squad at some point.
Given Jordie Barrett is coming off a long season, Tupaea and Tavatavanawai will both likely get opportunities at 12. A few people mentioning Tupaea as a 13 option but his defensive reads have always been subpar when wider out and it's only when he started focusing exclusively on 12 that he really stepped up his game, so don't think he will (or should) play elsewhere.
And it was silly of me, but I obviously should not have (quite vocally) questioned @chchfanatic! More or less on the money - I just couldn't picture a world where Razor didn't select Blackadder, and it still somewhat beggars belief for me. He was a semi-permanent fixture last year and has been in better form through Super Rugby, so not sure what the deal is there.
Or course, will take back a lot of what I've said if Barrett gets rolled out at 10 again against the French.
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@Mr-Fish said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I just couldn't picture a world where Razor didn't select Blackadder
He phoned razor pretending to be DP.
@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Mr-Fish said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I just couldn't picture a world where Razor didn't select Blackadder
He phoned razor pretending to be DP.
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While Robertson was given the clear by New Zealand Rugby to name 35 players for the tests against France, starting in Dunedin on July 5, he opted to roll with 33, plus an additional two - Christian Lio-Willie and Emoni Narawa - as injury cover.
“We felt like that squad there, over the three test series, is the opportunity to play everyone, that's our goal. If it happens great....and then we go to 36 for the Rugby Championship when we're on the road.”
That's quite interestng.
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While Robertson was given the clear by New Zealand Rugby to name 35 players for the tests against France, starting in Dunedin on July 5, he opted to roll with 33, plus an additional two - Christian Lio-Willie and Emoni Narawa - as injury cover.
“We felt like that squad there, over the three test series, is the opportunity to play everyone, that's our goal. If it happens great....and then we go to 36 for the Rugby Championship when we're on the road.”
That's quite interestng.
@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
While Robertson was given the clear by New Zealand Rugby to name 35 players for the tests against France, starting in Dunedin on July 5, he opted to roll with 33, plus an additional two - Christian Lio-Willie and Emoni Narawa - as injury cover.
“We felt like that squad there, over the three test series, is the opportunity to play everyone, that's our goal. If it happens great....and then we go to 36 for the Rugby Championship when we're on the road.”
That's quite interestng.
Shalfoon, LF and Havili to be added.
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@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
While Robertson was given the clear by New Zealand Rugby to name 35 players for the tests against France, starting in Dunedin on July 5, he opted to roll with 33, plus an additional two - Christian Lio-Willie and Emoni Narawa - as injury cover.
“We felt like that squad there, over the three test series, is the opportunity to play everyone, that's our goal. If it happens great....and then we go to 36 for the Rugby Championship when we're on the road.”
That's quite interestng.
Shalfoon, LF and Havili to be added.
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i havent watched a lot of MP this season, was Savea playing 7 predominately?
@Kiwiwomble said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
i havent watched a lot of MP this season, was Savea playing 7 predominately?
yes
https://all.rugby/player/ardie-savea
8: twice
7: fourteen times. -
Loved the interview with Blackadder on the news. Seemed upbeat and said with a smile on his face that missing out on the ABs is life and he'll crack on. Almost want him to have an injury free run and get back into the side, love that positivity. Havili, however seemed a little downcast at not making it.
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Loved the interview with Blackadder on the news. Seemed upbeat and said with a smile on his face that missing out on the ABs is life and he'll crack on. Almost want him to have an injury free run and get back into the side, love that positivity. Havili, however seemed a little downcast at not making it.
@Canes4life said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Loved the interview with Blackadder on the news. Seemed upbeat and said with a smile on his face that missing out on the ABs is life and he'll crack on. Almost want him to have an injury free run and get back into the side, love that positivity. Havili, however seemed a little downcast at not making it.
Maybe EB knows he'll make the RC side.... Ugh
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@Dan54 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@antipodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
How is Narawa injury cover for ALB? On what planet does that make any sense?
Well he is a wing/centre, so really probably there to cover both.
Playing centre at NPC isn't a qualification on your CV to cover that position in Test rugby. I'd have a different opinion if he'd spent some time there during the SR season and acquitted himself well.
@antipodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Dan54 said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@antipodean said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
How is Narawa injury cover for ALB? On what planet does that make any sense?
Well he is a wing/centre, so really probably there to cover both.
Playing centre at NPC isn't a qualification on your CV to cover that position in Test rugby. I'd have a different opinion if he'd spent some time there during the SR season and acquitted himself well.
Well he has played centre for Chiefs too.
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Have also seen a few rumours floating around that Blackadder is heading overseas so that could be a factor if it's true.
@Mr-Fish said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
Have also seen a few rumours floating around that Blackadder is heading overseas so that could be a factor if it's true.
I see what you did there
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@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Chris said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I can see how they like Norris, he's a physical presence around the field. I hope they can help him refine his scrummaging.
Shame Ah Kuoi wasn't looked at as lock/6, small for a lock but quite athletic and hardworking methinks.
It's interesting the views on Blackadder in the final, he was a workhorse as always but didn't look that impactful or dominant or particularly speedy to my eye, but I wasn't looking particularly out for him.
If I had time I'd like to go back to see if the Chiefs when off the boil as LJ got hit/off the field, the loosies looked far more effective early on I thought.I kept an eye on him, you are correct. and 30 carries for 0.8m is a disgrace
Not sure where you are getting those stats from, but was it you who watched him closely in the semi and managed to miss the game high 30 odd tackles?
Someone posted that during the game. As for the tackle count, he may have got 30 odd, but I didn't notice them as they lacked dominance
Tackle counts are not that important. Racking up numbers hitting one off defensive players and being late to attacking rucks doesn't really help win games. It's just avoiding errors. Safe boring players are great, but if you have too many (if any) you can just beige your way out of any impact and dynamism.
So defence doesn’t count then someone can make one tackle per game at that’s all good.
You're twisting what I said. Defence is critical. Tackle counts in isolation are not a yardstick for effectiveness.
EB cops plenty, but not for workrate or commitment. But pointing at a tackle count and saying 'see, awesome' is just not justified. Particularly when players (Clarke) steamroll you the week before
Nobody on here says awesome about EB - I'm about his staunchest defender on here, and all I say is I don't understand him being rubbished all the time when he performs strongly.
Dominant tackle % Opta stats Super rugby this year:
Parker 14.6%
Finau 11.8%
Savea 7.3%
EB 5.4%, same as CLW.
Kirifi 4.6%
DP 4.3%
LJ 3.8%
Sititi 2.2%Taking into account how many tackles EB makes, it's actually Parker then Finau then him - in terms of dominant tackles per minute.
I'm in agreement with you on Ethan and I don't agree at all with those who argue he's busy but ineffective. In the final four weeks of Super rugby, he went up against four of the other top five teams and basically outworked all the loosies in all of them. Significant contributor to our title. Notable on Saturday night that Rob subbed Tom Christie and switched Ethan to openside to bring on Grace.
I reckon it's pretty undeniable that he's got the biggest motor of any loosie in NZ and that's quite phenomenal when you consider he's predominantly a blindside. He can cover 7 (obviously, from Saturday night), but he's not fast enough to play there in big tests.
So he's a smallish 6 with a massive motor - in cycling parlance, I reckon he equates to George Bennett - guys they talk about with big diesel engines - they can climb with everyone, but they don't have the dynamism to actually break away from the pack. And Ethan's not even fast for his size.
I also don't think he's a great lineout option.
What I hope Razor is looking at it is what ACT is suggesting, big dynamic blindsides who are dominant lineout options - Finau and Parker - guys who are going to empty the tank for 55 minutes and get subbed. I also suspect he's toying with the idea of 6-2 splits, which again negates Ethan's strength.
If you're going to deploy Ethan for 55 minutes, he's going to come off with the tank still half full - it's negating his core strength. He's a better match if you're picking Hoskins at 8 and planning to sub him.
@Chris-B said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@Chris said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nzzp said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@reprobate said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@canefan said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
@nostrildamus said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I can see how they like Norris, he's a physical presence around the field. I hope they can help him refine his scrummaging.
Shame Ah Kuoi wasn't looked at as lock/6, small for a lock but quite athletic and hardworking methinks.
It's interesting the views on Blackadder in the final, he was a workhorse as always but didn't look that impactful or dominant or particularly speedy to my eye, but I wasn't looking particularly out for him.
If I had time I'd like to go back to see if the Chiefs when off the boil as LJ got hit/off the field, the loosies looked far more effective early on I thought.I kept an eye on him, you are correct. and 30 carries for 0.8m is a disgrace
Not sure where you are getting those stats from, but was it you who watched him closely in the semi and managed to miss the game high 30 odd tackles?
Someone posted that during the game. As for the tackle count, he may have got 30 odd, but I didn't notice them as they lacked dominance
Tackle counts are not that important. Racking up numbers hitting one off defensive players and being late to attacking rucks doesn't really help win games. It's just avoiding errors. Safe boring players are great, but if you have too many (if any) you can just beige your way out of any impact and dynamism.
So defence doesn’t count then someone can make one tackle per game at that’s all good.
You're twisting what I said. Defence is critical. Tackle counts in isolation are not a yardstick for effectiveness.
EB cops plenty, but not for workrate or commitment. But pointing at a tackle count and saying 'see, awesome' is just not justified. Particularly when players (Clarke) steamroll you the week before
Nobody on here says awesome about EB - I'm about his staunchest defender on here, and all I say is I don't understand him being rubbished all the time when he performs strongly.
Dominant tackle % Opta stats Super rugby this year:
Parker 14.6%
Finau 11.8%
Savea 7.3%
EB 5.4%, same as CLW.
Kirifi 4.6%
DP 4.3%
LJ 3.8%
Sititi 2.2%Taking into account how many tackles EB makes, it's actually Parker then Finau then him - in terms of dominant tackles per minute.
I'm in agreement with you on Ethan and I don't agree at all with those who argue he's busy but ineffective. In the final four weeks of Super rugby, he went up against four of the other top five teams and basically outworked all the loosies in all of them. Significant contributor to our title. Notable on Saturday night that Rob subbed Tom Christie and switched Ethan to openside to bring on Grace.
I reckon it's pretty undeniable that he's got the biggest motor of any loosie in NZ and that's quite phenomenal when you consider he's predominantly a blindside. He can cover 7 (obviously, from Saturday night), but he's not fast enough to play there in big tests.
So he's a smallish 6 with a massive motor - in cycling parlance, I reckon he equates to George Bennett - guys they talk about with big diesel engines - they can climb with everyone, but they don't have the dynamism to actually break away from the pack. And Ethan's not even fast for his size.
I also don't think he's a great lineout option.
What I hope Razor is looking at it is what ACT is suggesting, big dynamic blindsides who are dominant lineout options - Finau and Parker - guys who are going to empty the tank for 55 minutes and get subbed. I also suspect he's toying with the idea of 6-2 splits, which again negates Ethan's strength.
If you're going to deploy Ethan for 55 minutes, he's going to come off with the tank still half full - it's negating his core strength. He's a better match if you're picking Hoskins at 8 and planning to sub him.
I hear what you're saying and have considered that myself, but in the end I decided that I just don't know if it is true - and I'm not sure you can know unless you try it - because I think there's a fairly substantial individual element in there i.e. just because someone has an exceptional workrate over 80 mins does not mean that they can't do even more over 50 minutes. Or to put it another way, someone with a bit shit workrate over 80 minutes is not necessarily going to have a far better workrate over 50, it's going to vary by individual.
The potential combos are really interesting though, and I really think we need to be working towards a 6-2 bench, especially as we look to have an extra good lock now, and as always good loosie depth. Kirifi 40 then Savea on and take over as captain, allowing Barrett to be subbed? Finau and Parker a half each? Sititi & Sotutut? Samisoni flat out carrying up the guts for 40 then Taylor to finish? I do kinda feel like the guy with the biggest motor could be a part of that answer: if you're subbing 6 forwards then the two staying on being e.g. Holland and Blackadder would give a hell of a team work ethic over the 80.
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"Sotutut" that particular
typoplayer has sailed, it would seem. -
This post is deleted!
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@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks Squad v France:
I think we may well see Holland start the first test at Lock with either Scooter or Tupou Vaii starting at 6.
I think that's unlikely if they went to the trouble of picking Finau in is specialist position.
