2025 All Blacks v France series
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Was that proctors second test ?
If so , that’s two tests , 2 bad misses on the outside, , he needs to tidy that up or his chances of an international career could derail pretty quickly.
I remember a young nonu had similar issues at 13 but he had time on his side and moved to 12 anyway .
@kiwiinmelb said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Was that proctors second test ?
If so , that’s two tests , 2 bad misses on the outside, , he needs to tidy that up or his chances of an international career could derail pretty quickly.
I remember a young nonu had similar issues at 13 but he had time on his side and moved to 12 anyway .
Third, but yes, the 2nd test he played against Japan, the same thing happened as last night.
He had a shocker but I'm also happy to see him get another crack.
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@Tim CLW did ok and, given where we're at, he deserves another outing.
But I am convinced he's going to be a significantly better Test 8 than Akira Ioane or Hoskins Sotutu? Not yet.
@sparky said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Tim CLW did ok and, given where we're at, he deserves another outing.
But I am convinced he's going to be a significantly better Test 8 than Akira Ioane or Hoskins Sotutu? Not yet.
Yeah, this is the thing for me, I thought he had a really good test, but he's got a chance, based on form, that Hoskins didn't get. Also, he's just another not huge loosie.
Anyway, on the game itself, we're historically shit in our first test so I'm not going to get too down about it yet.
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@kiwiinmelb said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Was that proctors second test ?
If so , that’s two tests , 2 bad misses on the outside, , he needs to tidy that up or his chances of an international career could derail pretty quickly.
I remember a young nonu had similar issues at 13 but he had time on his side and moved to 12 anyway .
Third, but yes, the 2nd test he played against Japan, the same thing happened as last night.
He had a shocker but I'm also happy to see him get another crack.
@African-Monkey said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@kiwiinmelb said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Was that proctors second test ?
If so , that’s two tests , 2 bad misses on the outside, , he needs to tidy that up or his chances of an international career could derail pretty quickly.
I remember a young nonu had similar issues at 13 but he had time on his side and moved to 12 anyway .
Third, but yes, the 2nd test he played against Japan, the same thing happened as last night.
He had a shocker but I'm also happy to see him get another crack.
Pretty sure that was his second test , first was against Fiji and he had a great game. If I remember right his brother had one test against Japan. I thought he had two bad mistakes , this test, not enough to write him off. I really hope Razor sticks with him for the whole series because there is still plenty of upside while I think Reiko and ALB are at their ceilings.
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@African-Monkey said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@kiwiinmelb said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Was that proctors second test ?
If so , that’s two tests , 2 bad misses on the outside, , he needs to tidy that up or his chances of an international career could derail pretty quickly.
I remember a young nonu had similar issues at 13 but he had time on his side and moved to 12 anyway .
Third, but yes, the 2nd test he played against Japan, the same thing happened as last night.
He had a shocker but I'm also happy to see him get another crack.
Pretty sure that was his second test , first was against Fiji and he had a great game. If I remember right his brother had one test against Japan. I thought he had two bad mistakes , this test, not enough to write him off. I really hope Razor sticks with him for the whole series because there is still plenty of upside while I think Reiko and ALB are at their ceilings.
@DMX said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Pretty sure that was his second test , first was against Fiji and he had a great game. If I remember right his brother had one test against Japan.
Nope it was his 3rd start
Billy Proctor started vs Japan last year - a game in which Ruben Love came off the bench at the end to score 2 tries.
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@DMX said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Pretty sure that was his second test , first was against Fiji and he had a great game. If I remember right his brother had one test against Japan.
Nope it was his 3rd start
Billy Proctor started vs Japan last year - a game in which Ruben Love came off the bench at the end to score 2 tries.
@KiwiMurph lots of pressure on Proctor to perform given the pressure that was heaped on Reiko I include myself in that group
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This has probably been said in the match thread which I haven’t yet read but I’d like to post it in here anyway without sounding like too much of a homer.
For Fabian Holland to go 80 minutes on test debut in the tight 5 is an incredibly rare feat and one that deserves a lot of credit.
The fact the coaches have that trust in him already says a lot. Was also the leading tackler for the All Blacks with 17 if I remember correctly. Massive effort from the big man.
Main thing is he did his core roles well and shows he didn’t look out of place. Super stoked for the guy. Also glad I don’t look silly after pumping him up since he arrived at Otago.
Huge future ahead in the black jersey, locking depth is starting to look like a strength.
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@KiwiMurph lots of pressure on Proctor to perform given the pressure that was heaped on Reiko I include myself in that group
@Steven-Harris said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@KiwiMurph lots of pressure on Proctor to perform given the pressure that was heaped on Reiko I include myself in that group
Yup sure is. We all know that Rieko doesn't miss that tackle that led to the French 1st try. I do think that there is an upside to him though, but last night was a disaster for him.
Another one where I'm struggling to see how he fits into things is Kirifi. Like, I'm happy enough to see him get a crack, but he's a one trick pony, and if that trick isn't coming off, then I don't see the point in having him there, especially with Savea on at the same time. He looked like an under 85kg player out there amongst men. Sure, give him another crack, the series even, but I wasn't blown away from what I saw of him last night.
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This has probably been said in the match thread which I haven’t yet read but I’d like to post it in here anyway without sounding like too much of a homer.
For Fabian Holland to go 80 minutes on test debut in the tight 5 is an incredibly rare feat and one that deserves a lot of credit.
The fact the coaches have that trust in him already says a lot. Was also the leading tackler for the All Blacks with 17 if I remember correctly. Massive effort from the big man.
Main thing is he did his core roles well and shows he didn’t look out of place. Super stoked for the guy. Also glad I don’t look silly after pumping him up since he arrived at Otago.
Huge future ahead in the black jersey, locking depth is starting to look like a strength.
@Landers92 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
This has probably been said in the match thread which I haven’t yet read but I’d like to post it in here anyway without sounding like too much of a homer.
For Fabian Holland to go 80 minutes on test debut in the tight 5 is an incredibly rare feat and one that deserves a lot of credit.
The fact the coaches have that trust in him already says a lot. Was also the leading tackler for the All Blacks with 17 if I remember correctly. Massive effort from the big man.
Main thing is he did his core roles well and shows he didn’t look out of place. Super stoked for the guy. Also glad I don’t look silly after pumping him up since he arrived at Otago.
Huge future ahead in the black jersey, locking depth is starting to look like a strength.
Yup him and Lio-Willie had solid outings. Certainly the best out of the new brigade.
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Another thing I like about Holland is he has good hands - comes in handy not only in the lineout and restart but in general play as well - it's an underrated aspect - whereas someone like Darry is a bit of a goober handling wise - these little things add up at the top level.
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I really hate the caterpillar/snake rucks, them allowing the 9 to roll it back into position often using his hands before he kicks...9 is given far too much protection and time to fuck around with the ball in his hands at the base...
#wehatesitsomuch
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@DMX said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Pretty sure that was his second test , first was against Fiji and he had a great game. If I remember right his brother had one test against Japan.
Nope it was his 3rd start
Billy Proctor started vs Japan last year - a game in which Ruben Love came off the bench at the end to score 2 tries.
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@DMX said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Pretty sure that was his second test , first was against Fiji and he had a great game. If I remember right his brother had one test against Japan.
Nope it was his 3rd start
Billy Proctor started vs Japan last year - a game in which Ruben Love came off the bench at the end to score 2 tries.
Stand corrected,
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@Steven-Harris said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@KiwiMurph lots of pressure on Proctor to perform given the pressure that was heaped on Reiko I include myself in that group
Yup sure is. We all know that Rieko doesn't miss that tackle that led to the French 1st try. I do think that there is an upside to him though, but last night was a disaster for him.
Another one where I'm struggling to see how he fits into things is Kirifi. Like, I'm happy enough to see him get a crack, but he's a one trick pony, and if that trick isn't coming off, then I don't see the point in having him there, especially with Savea on at the same time. He looked like an under 85kg player out there amongst men. Sure, give him another crack, the series even, but I wasn't blown away from what I saw of him last night.
@African-Monkey it was DK's debut, in the first match of the year, while the team is largely in disarray. I'd like to see guys that have performed for years get a better chance than 20-30 minutes and discarded because they were only decent and not amazing.
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@African-Monkey it was DK's debut, in the first match of the year, while the team is largely in disarray. I'd like to see guys that have performed for years get a better chance than 20-30 minutes and discarded because they were only decent and not amazing.
@Bones said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@African-Monkey it was DK's debut, in the first match of the year, while the team is largely in disarray. I'd like to see guys that have performed for years get a better chance than 20-30 minutes and discarded because they were only decent and not amazing.
Yup and I stated as much. I'm just saying that I didn't like what I saw, but I, like you, feel that that he deserves a fair crack before being discarded. He might be really good in the next test.
I've also said during the year that I don't wanna see another Shaun Stevenson type situation where guys perform for years and years for little reward, and Kirifi fits that description.
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@Landers92 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
This has probably been said in the match thread which I haven’t yet read but I’d like to post it in here anyway without sounding like too much of a homer.
For Fabian Holland to go 80 minutes on test debut in the tight 5 is an incredibly rare feat and one that deserves a lot of credit.
The fact the coaches have that trust in him already says a lot. Was also the leading tackler for the All Blacks with 17 if I remember correctly. Massive effort from the big man.
Main thing is he did his core roles well and shows he didn’t look out of place. Super stoked for the guy. Also glad I don’t look silly after pumping him up since he arrived at Otago.
Huge future ahead in the black jersey, locking depth is starting to look like a strength.
Yup him and Lio-Willie had solid outings. Certainly the best out of the new brigade.
@African-Monkey said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@Landers92 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
This has probably been said in the match thread which I haven’t yet read but I’d like to post it in here anyway without sounding like too much of a homer.
For Fabian Holland to go 80 minutes on test debut in the tight 5 is an incredibly rare feat and one that deserves a lot of credit.
The fact the coaches have that trust in him already says a lot. Was also the leading tackler for the All Blacks with 17 if I remember correctly. Massive effort from the big man.
Main thing is he did his core roles well and shows he didn’t look out of place. Super stoked for the guy. Also glad I don’t look silly after pumping him up since he arrived at Otago.
Huge future ahead in the black jersey, locking depth is starting to look like a strength.
Yup him and Lio-Willie had solid outings. Certainly the best out of the new brigade.
For sure. Forgot to add Holland had the most line out wins with 6 as well
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This has probably been said in the match thread which I haven’t yet read but I’d like to post it in here anyway without sounding like too much of a homer.
For Fabian Holland to go 80 minutes on test debut in the tight 5 is an incredibly rare feat and one that deserves a lot of credit.
The fact the coaches have that trust in him already says a lot. Was also the leading tackler for the All Blacks with 17 if I remember correctly. Massive effort from the big man.
Main thing is he did his core roles well and shows he didn’t look out of place. Super stoked for the guy. Also glad I don’t look silly after pumping him up since he arrived at Otago.
Huge future ahead in the black jersey, locking depth is starting to look like a strength.
@Landers92 Scott Robertson didn't pick out many individual players in his post-match press conference but he did praise Fabian Holland effort, his "massive engine" and his tackling.
The first of many Tests from the big man I'm sure.
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@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
This photo shows how under-sized our loosies are:
Being the glass is half full fellow that I am it's also a case of a fucken tall prop and a tall lock.
Kirifi is a unit but yes, an undersized one. There's a place for him provided there's bigger options at 6 and 8.
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ? I thought he went to ground pretty easy a few times last night. Certainly no Eben Etzebeth in that department ( yet )
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@Bovidae said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
This photo shows how under-sized our loosies are:
Being the glass is half full fellow that I am it's also a case of a fucken tall prop and a tall lock.
Kirifi is a unit but yes, an undersized one. There's a place for him provided there's bigger options at 6 and 8.
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ? I thought he went to ground pretty easy a few times last night. Certainly no Eben Etzebeth in that department ( yet )
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@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ?
Not really.
Looks more Luke Romano than Brodie Retallick to me at this stage. I am just not seeing what others keep saying they do.
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@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ?
Not really.
Looks more Luke Romano than Brodie Retallick to me at this stage. I am just not seeing what others keep saying they do.
@ARHS said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@KiwiMurph said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
@MN5 said in 2025 All Blacks v France series:
Is Holland noted as a ball carrier ?
Not really.
Looks more Luke Romano than Brodie Retallick to me at this stage. I am just not seeing what others keep saying they do.
His workrate and lineout work is more Retallick/Whitelock than Romano.
He's got good hands, and while not a powerful explosive runner, he carried reasonably for the ABXV last year, notably supporting close in breaks to maintain momentum and giving a few nice offloads.
