All Blacks 2025
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Good to know what your baseline is for the future.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Good to know what your baseline is for the future.
It's not even umpteen.
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Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
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Caleb Clarke gone for at least 8 weeks.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360756955/all-blacks-wing-caleb-clarke-sidelined-eight-weeks-injury
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
His ruck cleaning is very effective. Apart from Vaa'i he's better than every other loose forward in yesterday's 23 at that facet.
He's also a far better lineout option apart from everyone but Vaai.
The only reason why any of Squire, Fifita, Hemopo, Luatua and Ioane didn't become a long term option is because none of them got peservered with like Vaa'i and Frizell did.
Those players were all just as talented but didn't get 4+ years of development like Frizell and Vaa'i.
Finau and Parker are the only guys with the same kind of size and talent at the moment. They both have speed and strength. They both need to be around the squad.
There's too many little guys in there at the moment.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
His ruck cleaning is very effective. Apart from Vaa'i he's better than every other loose forward in yesterday's 23 at that facet.
He's also a far better lineout option apart from everyone but Vaai.
The only reason why any of Squire, Fifita, Hemopo, Luatua and Ioane didn't become a long term option is because none of them got peservered with like Vaa'i and Frizell did.
Those players were all just as talented but didn't get 4+ years of development like Frizell and Vaa'i.
Finau and Parker are the only guys with the same kind of size and talent at the moment. They both have speed and strength. They both need to be around the squad.
There's too many little guys in there at the moment.
Well Squire was injured (but had 23 tests etc), he looked ok, Hemopo (played at lock) and Luatua went overseas (Luatua was an AB when he signed), and Ioane was probably just too lazy at times.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
different beast lets jut keep Finau he might come good in 10 years.
We have other options.You can not compare one player with another on development each player is an individual and has different mind sets and traits, personalities and grow differently.
But you know pretty soon if they have something or they don't. -
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
So many of our opposition temams are more proficient at them than us. Most of the time it might as well be a turnover when we do it
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
His ruck cleaning is very effective. Apart from Vaa'i he's better than every other loose forward in yesterday's 23 at that facet.
He's also a far better lineout option apart from everyone but Vaai.
The only reason why any of Squire, Fifita, Hemopo, Luatua and Ioane didn't become a long term option is because none of them got peservered with like Vaa'i and Frizell did.
Those players were all just as talented but didn't get 4+ years of development like Frizell and Vaa'i.
Finau and Parker are the only guys with the same kind of size and talent at the moment. They both have speed and strength. They both need to be around the squad.
There's too many little guys in there at the moment.
Well Squire was injured (but had 23 tests etc), he looked ok, Hemopo (played at lock) and Luatua went overseas (Luatua was an AB when he signed), and Ioane was probably just too lazy at times.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
His ruck cleaning is very effective. Apart from Vaa'i he's better than every other loose forward in yesterday's 23 at that facet.
He's also a far better lineout option apart from everyone but Vaai.
The only reason why any of Squire, Fifita, Hemopo, Luatua and Ioane didn't become a long term option is because none of them got peservered with like Vaa'i and Frizell did.
Those players were all just as talented but didn't get 4+ years of development like Frizell and Vaa'i.
Finau and Parker are the only guys with the same kind of size and talent at the moment. They both have speed and strength. They both need to be around the squad.
There's too many little guys in there at the moment.
Well Squire was injured (but had 23 tests etc), he looked ok, Hemopo (played at lock) and Luatua went overseas (Luatua was an AB when he signed), and Ioane was probably just too lazy at times.
Those reasons don't matter because none of them got 4+ years so we will never know what they might have been. The point is players can take 4 years of development.
I heard plenty of people over the years complaining about both Vaa'i and Frizell getting enough chances and not being worth persevering with. Definitely in the case of Vaai they were wrong. I didn't like the continued selection of Frizell for other reasons but he definitely played his best rugby at test level after 4 years of development.
There just isn't enough talent around to toss Finau on the heap at this point.
For the same reason dropping Papali'i from the squad after 4 years of development as he's coming into his peak years is nuts. The guy might have played 1 bad test against Ireland at blindside but he played plenty of good tests. Now they've started developing Kirifi at 28.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
So many of our opposition temams are more proficient at them than us. Most of the time it might as well be a turnover when we do it
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
So many of our opposition temams are more proficient at them than us. Most of the time it might as well be a turnover when we do it
I’m not sure about that. I saw some atrocious ones on the weekend in a few other test matches.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
So many of our opposition temams are more proficient at them than us. Most of the time it might as well be a turnover when we do it
I’m not sure about that. I saw some atrocious ones on the weekend in a few other test matches.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
So many of our opposition temams are more proficient at them than us. Most of the time it might as well be a turnover when we do it
I’m not sure about that. I saw some atrocious ones on the weekend in a few other test matches.
Didn't say all. I don't like them, especially in our own half
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
The Black Ferns World Cup Final was the last time I saw a NZ rep side boxkick long to similar effect. Thought it had Mr. Smith's hands all over it.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2025:
Two weeks in and Wayne Smith involved in coaching group he was in the coaching box Saturday night for all to see.
What is his roll actually thought he had stepped away.The fact the ABs box-kicked long, for touch, and got out of the danger area without putting up 50/50s box-kicks in their own half indicates the profs influence on tactics.
He's on record as saying he hates box kicks
I think he hates them because the vast majority of them are poor and just create more pressure on the team that do them.
My eyes certainly light up when the opposition do them.
So many of our opposition temams are more proficient at them than us. Most of the time it might as well be a turnover when we do it
I’m not sure about that. I saw some atrocious ones on the weekend in a few other test matches.
Didn't say all. I don't like them, especially in our own half
@canefan I was more talking about the teams that do them - the Boks, Irish, England for example. In all of those tests they kicked poor box kicks. We kick poor ones too. But Roigard had better distance on his ones on the weekend, so was a decent tactic.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
I'll put my hand up on that! To be fair, at least Vaai was a busy idiot. His accuracy has gone through the roof in the last year and a half. Finau just seems to float about.
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I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
I'll put my hand up on that! To be fair, at least Vaai was a busy idiot. His accuracy has gone through the roof in the last year and a half. Finau just seems to float about.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
I'll put my hand up on that! To be fair, at least Vaai was a busy idiot. His accuracy has gone through the roof in the last year and a half. Finau just seems to float about.
It takes time finding a first five in the right position to smash
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
I'll put my hand up on that! To be fair, at least Vaai was a busy idiot. His accuracy has gone through the roof in the last year and a half. Finau just seems to float about.
This post is deleted! -
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
I think midfield could be helped by a better 10
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
I think midfield could be helped by a better 10
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
I think midfield could be helped by a better 10
Maybe we are being a bit too harsh on BB and overlook his better points (which clearly doesn't include his kicking). That said, he's getting long in the tooth and I'd be tempted to give Love a start and poss. Reihana a bench spot (though not at the same time)
