All Blacks 2025
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chuck72 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Because the rest of our 10's aren't much different/better?
Then move on and actually, you know, develop players who are going to be around in more than a couple of years
Isn't leaving the jersey in a better place an AB thing?
.
Unfortunately at this stage trying to develop a 10 other than DMac and BB is a little like trying to polish a turd. We really need that to change.
Really? I think you can maximise what you have. Jordie looked dynamite playing up north with a different coaching regime. I think our 10s could easily be doing the job needed, but I am not convinced the coaching has been good as Super or Test level for some time.
BB's chips are tolerated by coaches. It is extraordinary. I think it's more that we don't realistically know what we want from a 10, so we don't pick a person and keep them there.
I am also very cautious about RMo coming back and thriving at Test level. He plays like Kyler Murray, and once the electric acceleration goes things will get even harder for him at Test level.
So much fo this is that structurally we tolerate 10s in NZR with noodles for legs. We just don't value kickers.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chuck72 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Because the rest of our 10's aren't much different/better?
Then move on and actually, you know, develop players who are going to be around in more than a couple of years
Isn't leaving the jersey in a better place an AB thing?
.
Unfortunately at this stage trying to develop a 10 other than DMac and BB is a little like trying to polish a turd. We really need that to change.
Really? I think you can maximise what you have. Jordie looked dynamite playing up north with a different coaching regime. I think our 10s could easily be doing the job needed, but I am not convinced the coaching has been good as Super or Test level for some time.
BB's chips are tolerated by coaches. It is extraordinary. I think it's more that we don't realistically know what we want from a 10, so we don't pick a person and keep them there.
I am also very cautious about RMo coming back and thriving at Test level. He plays like Kyler Murray, and once the electric acceleration goes things will get even harder for him at Test level.
So much fo this is that structurally we tolerate 10s in NZR with noodles for legs. We just don't value kickers.
I couldn't give a shit whether RM comes back, but I think you make a good point. We seem to have an identity crisis at 10. The solid role playing 10 is well out of fashion in NZ and we are losing those type of players overseas. As an example, I think Burke was a recent loss who was just starting to come good.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew also shows a lack of trust in BB, DMac and any other 10s running around NZ.
Sort of echoes the sentiment on here though doesn't it? Very few have faith in BB, and opinions on DMac run hot and cold.
yet the same astute observers have similar concerns with RM at AB level too... :man_shrugging:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew also shows a lack of trust in BB, DMac and any other 10s running around NZ.
Sort of echoes the sentiment on here though doesn't it? Very few have faith in BB, and opinions on DMac run hot and cold.
yet the same astute observers have similar concerns with RM at AB level too... :man_shrugging:
Agree.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chuck72 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Because the rest of our 10's aren't much different/better?
Then move on and actually, you know, develop players who are going to be around in more than a couple of years
Isn't leaving the jersey in a better place an AB thing?
.
Unfortunately at this stage trying to develop a 10 other than DMac and BB is a little like trying to polish a turd. We really need that to change.
Really? I think you can maximise what you have. Jordie looked dynamite playing up north with a different coaching regime. I think our 10s could easily be doing the job needed, but I am not convinced the coaching has been good as Super or Test level for some time.
BB's chips are tolerated by coaches. It is extraordinary. I think it's more that we don't realistically know what we want from a 10, so we don't pick a person and keep them there.
I am also very cautious about RMo coming back and thriving at Test level. He plays like Kyler Murray, and once the electric acceleration goes things will get even harder for him at Test level.
So much fo this is that structurally we tolerate 10s in NZR with noodles for legs. We just don't value kickers.
I couldn't give a shit whether RM comes back, but I think you make a good point. We seem to have an identity crisis at 10. The solid role playing 10 is well out of fashion in NZ and we are losing those type of players overseas. As an example, I think Burke was a recent loss who was just starting to come good.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chuck72 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Because the rest of our 10's aren't much different/better?
Then move on and actually, you know, develop players who are going to be around in more than a couple of years
Isn't leaving the jersey in a better place an AB thing?
.
Unfortunately at this stage trying to develop a 10 other than DMac and BB is a little like trying to polish a turd. We really need that to change.
Really? I think you can maximise what you have. Jordie looked dynamite playing up north with a different coaching regime. I think our 10s could easily be doing the job needed, but I am not convinced the coaching has been good as Super or Test level for some time.
BB's chips are tolerated by coaches. It is extraordinary. I think it's more that we don't realistically know what we want from a 10, so we don't pick a person and keep them there.
I am also very cautious about RMo coming back and thriving at Test level. He plays like Kyler Murray, and once the electric acceleration goes things will get even harder for him at Test level.
So much fo this is that structurally we tolerate 10s in NZR with noodles for legs. We just don't value kickers.
I couldn't give a shit whether RM comes back, but I think you make a good point. We seem to have an identity crisis at 10. The solid role playing 10 is well out of fashion in NZ and we are losing those type of players overseas. As an example, I think Burke was a recent loss who was just starting to come good.
Harry Plummer
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chuck72 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Because the rest of our 10's aren't much different/better?
Then move on and actually, you know, develop players who are going to be around in more than a couple of years
Isn't leaving the jersey in a better place an AB thing?
.
Unfortunately at this stage trying to develop a 10 other than DMac and BB is a little like trying to polish a turd. We really need that to change.
Really? I think you can maximise what you have. Jordie looked dynamite playing up north with a different coaching regime. I think our 10s could easily be doing the job needed, but I am not convinced the coaching has been good as Super or Test level for some time.
BB's chips are tolerated by coaches. It is extraordinary. I think it's more that we don't realistically know what we want from a 10, so we don't pick a person and keep them there.
I am also very cautious about RMo coming back and thriving at Test level. He plays like Kyler Murray, and once the electric acceleration goes things will get even harder for him at Test level.
So much fo this is that structurally we tolerate 10s in NZR with noodles for legs. We just don't value kickers.
I couldn't give a shit whether RM comes back, but I think you make a good point. We seem to have an identity crisis at 10. The solid role playing 10 is well out of fashion in NZ and we are losing those type of players overseas. As an example, I think Burke was a recent loss who was just starting to come good.
Harry Plummer
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chuck72 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Because the rest of our 10's aren't much different/better?
Then move on and actually, you know, develop players who are going to be around in more than a couple of years
Isn't leaving the jersey in a better place an AB thing?
.
Unfortunately at this stage trying to develop a 10 other than DMac and BB is a little like trying to polish a turd. We really need that to change.
Really? I think you can maximise what you have. Jordie looked dynamite playing up north with a different coaching regime. I think our 10s could easily be doing the job needed, but I am not convinced the coaching has been good as Super or Test level for some time.
BB's chips are tolerated by coaches. It is extraordinary. I think it's more that we don't realistically know what we want from a 10, so we don't pick a person and keep them there.
I am also very cautious about RMo coming back and thriving at Test level. He plays like Kyler Murray, and once the electric acceleration goes things will get even harder for him at Test level.
So much fo this is that structurally we tolerate 10s in NZR with noodles for legs. We just don't value kickers.
I couldn't give a shit whether RM comes back, but I think you make a good point. We seem to have an identity crisis at 10. The solid role playing 10 is well out of fashion in NZ and we are losing those type of players overseas. As an example, I think Burke was a recent loss who was just starting to come good.
Harry Plummer
Yes, another one that would have been good to keep hold of. Jeez we could even say Gatland could be useful at the moment. The problem is, a lot of these guys don't even get a regular Super gig because coaches are looking for something different.
It wouldn't surprise me if Reihana makes way at the Saders for the young fella who got injured during the season. The young fella showed more of a running game and that seems to be valued.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chuck72 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Because the rest of our 10's aren't much different/better?
Then move on and actually, you know, develop players who are going to be around in more than a couple of years
Isn't leaving the jersey in a better place an AB thing?
.
Unfortunately at this stage trying to develop a 10 other than DMac and BB is a little like trying to polish a turd. We really need that to change.
Really? I think you can maximise what you have. Jordie looked dynamite playing up north with a different coaching regime. I think our 10s could easily be doing the job needed, but I am not convinced the coaching has been good as Super or Test level for some time.
BB's chips are tolerated by coaches. It is extraordinary. I think it's more that we don't realistically know what we want from a 10, so we don't pick a person and keep them there.
I am also very cautious about RMo coming back and thriving at Test level. He plays like Kyler Murray, and once the electric acceleration goes things will get even harder for him at Test level.
So much fo this is that structurally we tolerate 10s in NZR with noodles for legs. We just don't value kickers.
I couldn't give a shit whether RM comes back, but I think you make a good point. We seem to have an identity crisis at 10. The solid role playing 10 is well out of fashion in NZ and we are losing those type of players overseas. As an example, I think Burke was a recent loss who was just starting to come good.
Harry Plummer
Yes, another one that would have been good to keep hold of. Jeez we could even say Gatland could be useful at the moment. The problem is, a lot of these guys don't even get a regular Super gig because coaches are looking for something different.
It wouldn't surprise me if Reihana makes way at the Saders for the young fella who got injured during the season. The young fella showed more of a running game and that seems to be valued.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem is, a lot of these guys don't even get a regular Super gig because coaches are looking for something different.
it's the obsession with X FACTOR BABY YEAH
and the end result of that is your loose forward captain doing a chip on their own goal line.
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@Wurzel said in All Blacks 2025:
Mehrts wouldn't get a look in these days when a Mehrts is exactly what we need
I reckon he would because he had a running game, or a decent turn of speed. Fox on the other hand, he'd lose out to Botica.
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An update on Perofeta. For the last year he's had a calf injury that keeps coming back. Expects to be playing in round 3 or 4 of the NPC
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@Wurzel said in All Blacks 2025:
Mehrts wouldn't get a look in these days when a Mehrts is exactly what we need
Mehrts would walk in
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i think it's quite interesting that the rest of the world seems to be moving on from "game manager" 10s in favour of guys that yes, have core skills, but are attacking sparks. England are. Scotland have a mercurial guy who just got the nod from the Lions coach. France are. Even South Africa appear to be.
The problem isn't that our current 10s aren't conservative "ball in front of your forwards" type 10s, it's that BB has pretty average basic skills, and DMac is tarred with the "headless chicken" brush and he tends to take a few too many steps. Combine that with pretty average all-round team kicking strategies/executions (because for the first part of the year we play a comp that doesn't require it) and we tend to invite pressure on ourselves.
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Stuff has posted an article on both Darry and Lakai's hopes of getting back into the AB fold.
If they both perform strongly on Saturday they are a good chance of being named (not sure when the squad naming is).
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Stuff has posted an article on both Darry and Lakai's hopes of getting back into the AB fold.
If they both perform strongly on Saturday they are a good chance of being named (not sure when the squad naming is).
@Canes4life Squad named Monday 4th August.
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A lot of fans will be starting to get a bit pissed with RM's antics, not really helping his brand. Could well be his manager.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chuck72 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Because the rest of our 10's aren't much different/better?
Then move on and actually, you know, develop players who are going to be around in more than a couple of years
Isn't leaving the jersey in a better place an AB thing?
.
Unfortunately at this stage trying to develop a 10 other than DMac and BB is a little like trying to polish a turd. We really need that to change.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chuck72 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Because the rest of our 10's aren't much different/better?
Then move on and actually, you know, develop players who are going to be around in more than a couple of years
Isn't leaving the jersey in a better place an AB thing?
.
Unfortunately at this stage trying to develop a 10 other than DMac and BB is a little like trying to polish a turd. We really need that to change.
How about even trying other options? I hate to bring him up again, but Plummer plays a pivotal role in winning the SR title, and he isn't even given a serious run to see what he can do. Say what you want and argue about whether or not he could have done a job for us, it's all conjecture because the coaches didn't even give him a meaningful run
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Good tackler, good goalkicker, covers 12 and 15, kicks his team around the field and runs it hard and straight. Complete waste of time for the All Blacks, obviously.
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If Rugby Pod I just watched is right, Finlay Christie is off to Newcastle in Pommyland next year. So will help the slectors go past him for this season?
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
If Rugby Pod I just watched is right, Finlay Christie is off to Newcastle in Pommyland next year. So will help the slectors go past him for this season?
He might not want to play. He’ll be able to play for Scotland in a couple of years. If that’s his plan, he probably won’t want to restart the eligibility clock
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chuck72 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Because the rest of our 10's aren't much different/better?
Then move on and actually, you know, develop players who are going to be around in more than a couple of years
Isn't leaving the jersey in a better place an AB thing?
.
Unfortunately at this stage trying to develop a 10 other than DMac and BB is a little like trying to polish a turd. We really need that to change.
Really? I think you can maximise what you have. Jordie looked dynamite playing up north with a different coaching regime. I think our 10s could easily be doing the job needed, but I am not convinced the coaching has been good as Super or Test level for some time.
BB's chips are tolerated by coaches. It is extraordinary. I think it's more that we don't realistically know what we want from a 10, so we don't pick a person and keep them there.
I am also very cautious about RMo coming back and thriving at Test level. He plays like Kyler Murray, and once the electric acceleration goes things will get even harder for him at Test level.
So much fo this is that structurally we tolerate 10s in NZR with noodles for legs. We just don't value kickers.
I couldn't give a shit whether RM comes back, but I think you make a good point. We seem to have an identity crisis at 10. The solid role playing 10 is well out of fashion in NZ and we are losing those type of players overseas. As an example, I think Burke was a recent loss who was just starting to come good.
Harry Plummer
Yes, another one that would have been good to keep hold of. Jeez we could even say Gatland could be useful at the moment. The problem is, a lot of these guys don't even get a regular Super gig because coaches are looking for something different.
It wouldn't surprise me if Reihana makes way at the Saders for the young fella who got injured during the season. The young fella showed more of a running game and that seems to be valued.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chuck72 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Because the rest of our 10's aren't much different/better?
Then move on and actually, you know, develop players who are going to be around in more than a couple of years
Isn't leaving the jersey in a better place an AB thing?
.
Unfortunately at this stage trying to develop a 10 other than DMac and BB is a little like trying to polish a turd. We really need that to change.
Really? I think you can maximise what you have. Jordie looked dynamite playing up north with a different coaching regime. I think our 10s could easily be doing the job needed, but I am not convinced the coaching has been good as Super or Test level for some time.
BB's chips are tolerated by coaches. It is extraordinary. I think it's more that we don't realistically know what we want from a 10, so we don't pick a person and keep them there.
I am also very cautious about RMo coming back and thriving at Test level. He plays like Kyler Murray, and once the electric acceleration goes things will get even harder for him at Test level.
So much fo this is that structurally we tolerate 10s in NZR with noodles for legs. We just don't value kickers.
I couldn't give a shit whether RM comes back, but I think you make a good point. We seem to have an identity crisis at 10. The solid role playing 10 is well out of fashion in NZ and we are losing those type of players overseas. As an example, I think Burke was a recent loss who was just starting to come good.
Harry Plummer
Yes, another one that would have been good to keep hold of. Jeez we could even say Gatland could be useful at the moment. The problem is, a lot of these guys don't even get a regular Super gig because coaches are looking for something different.
It wouldn't surprise me if Reihana makes way at the Saders for the young fella who got injured during the season. The young fella showed more of a running game and that seems to be valued.
I reckon it's twofold, the most athletic and gifted of 10's who are too good to be left out of the starting side are immediately shifted to Fullback to accommodate their super clubs incumbent, and miss out on that crucial early development at 10, and then are forever considered fullbacks / hybrids (think McKenzie, Sullivan, Love et al.)
Secondly, if you look at the development and projectory of a lot of the more traditional 10's (Plummer, Black, West), it's not until their late 20's that they're truly realising their ability, and by then they've already signed off overseas. Essentially, re Gatland, you're right, in so much that our current opinion of him was when he was running the cutter in his early to mid 20's, and we write them off, since they are not ready, and then lament the loss once they finally mature into decent players.
That is why I was stoked to see Love, and Godfrey given opportunities this year at 10, and more traditional 10's such as Reihana given the chance to further develop and mature, rather than immediately move on to the next young 10 (granted all of which was forced by injuries).
