All Blacks 2025
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I'm with @nzzp on this. He is visible in tests largely doing non-winger things, and not that well - getting to a ruck and giving it a shove, attempting a pick-and-go for example. I haven't seen him do anything particularly useful at test level for a long time - not even defensively, and certainly not on attack.
Rieko at least adds some starch to the things he does - carries hard in limited space and is a great defender.
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Keeping Jordan at fullback has been difficult this season with wings getting injured just minutes after kickoff. Narawa definitely deserved his chance and should have been starting ahead of Reece much earlier. Thatās a very frustrating injury given they finally may have seen the light. Hopefully they donāt just revert to Reece. Iād prefer just about anything else.
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Apologies for the broken record, but the problem is BB. Take him out, McKenzie to 10, Jordan stays at 15 and Love gets the bench spot where he can get minutes at both 15 and 10, depending on the game situation. Beauden is poor, never getting any better, and likely to be considerably worse come next world cup.
Wings should be Clarke and Tangitau: bring them in and stop mucking around. Ioane is a certainty in the squad as he covers 13 to a good standard, but Reece should just be gone. If any opposition winger had the choice to mark him vs Tangitau or Clarke, I reckon that'd be an easy decision to make. -
Perhaps I haven't seen it but does Jordan have a boot to allow us to exit deep?
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Perhaps I haven't seen it but does Jordan have a boot to allow us to exit deep?
@Old-Alleynians said in All Blacks 2025:
Perhaps I haven't seen it but does Jordan have a boot to allow us to exit deep?
He set up the first try on Saturday with a long kick from a turnover. I have no doubt the team played to team orders in the second half, because after the first 20 they stopped kicking long, which had been working successfully
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Perhaps I haven't seen it but does Jordan have a boot to allow us to exit deep?
@Old-Alleynians said in All Blacks 2025:
Perhaps I haven't seen it but does Jordan have a boot to allow us to exit deep?
It's not big enough to clear Dulwich Common.
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Apologies for the broken record, but the problem is BB. Take him out, McKenzie to 10, Jordan stays at 15 and Love gets the bench spot where he can get minutes at both 15 and 10, depending on the game situation. Beauden is poor, never getting any better, and likely to be considerably worse come next world cup.
Wings should be Clarke and Tangitau: bring them in and stop mucking around. Ioane is a certainty in the squad as he covers 13 to a good standard, but Reece should just be gone. If any opposition winger had the choice to mark him vs Tangitau or Clarke, I reckon that'd be an easy decision to make.@reprobate I think Clarke will play this weekend.
I canāt recall if Carter has been officially added to the squad or is just there as cover. If the latter I doubt he plays. Tangitau a Smokey for the EOYT if heās fit.
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@Old-Alleynians said in All Blacks 2025:
Perhaps I haven't seen it but does Jordan have a boot to allow us to exit deep?
He set up the first try on Saturday with a long kick from a turnover. I have no doubt the team played to team orders in the second half, because after the first 20 they stopped kicking long, which had been working successfully
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Alleynians said in All Blacks 2025:
Perhaps I haven't seen it but does Jordan have a boot to allow us to exit deep?
He set up the first try on Saturday with a long kick from a turnover. I have no doubt the team played to team orders in the second half, because after the first 20 they stopped kicking long, which had been working successfully
That wasn't Jordan who kicked it. It was Proctor who kicked it. Jordan chased.
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@reprobate I think Clarke will play this weekend.
I canāt recall if Carter has been officially added to the squad or is just there as cover. If the latter I doubt he plays. Tangitau a Smokey for the EOYT if heās fit.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate I think Clarke will play this weekend.
I canāt recall if Carter has been officially added to the squad or is just there as cover. If the latter I doubt he plays. Tangitau a Smokey for the EOYT if heās fit.
I'd say there's a close to 100% chance that Tangitau goes on the EOYT if he's fit.
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When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Not a development team ... For Crusaders...!!
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If love doesnāt get game time because he is too much like dmac and sits behind him in the pecking order .
You got to wonder where he sits when mounga waltzs back into the squad and starts at 10 ( most seem to think this will happen) then do we have beaudie and dmac competing for 23 . Is love surplus?
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 might I suggest you use the
emoji to convey that you were having a larf....?
usually do mate, but as my mouse has packed it in, I just getting lazy moving the arrow around where I want it Thought it was fairly obvious anyway, but I know now. -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
Love started (I think) 6 games at 10 this year - his first start was in round 10.
Kemara was injured in round 11, so Reihana was starting after that. Pretty similar.
How many starts for Jacomb this year? Probably pretty similar too I'd reckon. -
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
Love started (I think) 6 games at 10 this year - his first start was in round 10.
Kemara was injured in round 11, so Reihana was starting after that. Pretty similar.
How many starts for Jacomb this year? Probably pretty similar too I'd reckon.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
Love started (I think) 6 games at 10 this year - his first start was in round 10.
Kemara was injured in round 11, so Reihana was starting after that. Pretty similar.
How many starts for Jacomb this year? Probably pretty similar too I'd reckon.Love started 5 games at First Five
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
Love started (I think) 6 games at 10 this year - his first start was in round 10.
Kemara was injured in round 11, so Reihana was starting after that. Pretty similar.
How many starts for Jacomb this year? Probably pretty similar too I'd reckon.Love started 5 games at First Five
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
Love started (I think) 6 games at 10 this year - his first start was in round 10.
Kemara was injured in round 11, so Reihana was starting after that. Pretty similar.
How many starts for Jacomb this year? Probably pretty similar too I'd reckon.Love started 5 games at First Five
Clearly not enough for some..... IMHO he's done enough to warrant serious consideration and some game time as a 10/15 sub. Especially if Narawa is out and they are considering moving DMac to 15, or BB to 15
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The case for Love (or another player) at first five comes down to this: is Barrett still playing at a level that gives the All Blacks a real shot at the 2027 World Cup, or is he already on a downward trajectory? If he's up to it, fine, keep him. If not, wouldnāt it be better to give someone else meaningful game time and see if they can surpass him by 2027? Barrett can still hang around - heāll be the same player whether he plays every test or not.
If it were up to me, Iād have started McKenzie in all the games Barrett played last year and this year, with Love (given that's who's in the squad) now on the bench getting proper minutes - not just token cameos - and eventually starting if he shows enough ability.
That said, Robertson looks set on Mo'unga, which is risky in its own way. He wasnāt as good as Robertson seems to believe when he left and after his stint in Japan, thereās no guarantee heāll come back at the required level.
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Ok. fair enough 3-5 or 6 I not sure is enough starts to be starting at 10 for ABs. As I said, I a fan of Love, but haven't seen enough of him at 10 to think he ready for the job. I would almost bet that almost no test coach in world would. I certainly have no probs with him on bench, but even that I think he would cover 15? Still if the coaches thought he was ready, I wouldn't argue either.
