All Blacks 2025
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B Agree, although it beggars belief how few caps Ruben Love has received for a potentially world class player.
Just like it took an injury to open the door for Sititi, Love might need to push BB down the stairs so DMac moves to 10, WJ moves to 14, and he gets to start at 15
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone suggesting Love at 10 (and I a fan of his) is perhaps just a little loopy.
Call me loopy but I'd be happy to see Love given a run at 10. Not throwing him the keys long term but a start wouldn't be a bad thing.
If we win the next two tests would be more than happy for him to have a crack in Perth.
could perhaps live with him coming off bench at 10 in Perth ,if we in position of safety, boo. But why start a fullback at 10 because he looked ok, in 3 super games. I maybe conservative, but for Love's own peace of mind I even against it. Tostart him and he struggles, could stuff his confidence badly, and then we would have posters etc calling for his head. Give hin 20 minutes if we in ok position is perhaps ok, but I got a feeling he is in squad as a 15 anyway, -
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Look at all the changes the Boks have made. I wouldn't advocate so many changes. But come on it's time for BB to have a rest. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Or play Love on the wing A-la Ben Smith. He looks ready and it's on his home track, what is razor waiting for, he's got to stop pissing about
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter They need to change their approach. The All Blacks still act as if inexperienced players should only get game time against minnows or when injuries force their hand. We always hear about the need to rest players and avoid overloading them. So why not rotate in one or two promising players each game, giving them a chance against quality opposition alongside the established core? If they handle it, reward them with another shot straight away. If not, let them bide their time until the next opening.
Isn't that largely what's been happening?
Test 1: Holland, Lio-Willie, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi
Test 2: Vaa'i at 6. Narawa, Tavatavanawai. Another go for Holland, CLW, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi.
Test 3: Kirifi starting. Love, McAllister, Hotham. Another go for Holland, CLW, Tavatavanawai.
Test 4: Vaaí at 6. Holland, Kirifi and Proctor all starting. Norris on the bench.
Test 5: Parker starting. Vaai, Holland, Proctor, Lord.
Test 6. Parker, Proctor, Narawa, Holland, Kirifi, Preston.You and your "facts".
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Having a six play six, a seven play seven, and an eight play eight for the first time since 2015?
Ooo and a midfield that hasn’t got ALB or Reiko in it.
More depth than Hansen?
Have you actually looked at Hansen's first 2 years of results and Hansens first 15 debutants vs Razor's?
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter They need to change their approach. The All Blacks still act as if inexperienced players should only get game time against minnows or when injuries force their hand. We always hear about the need to rest players and avoid overloading them. So why not rotate in one or two promising players each game, giving them a chance against quality opposition alongside the established core? If they handle it, reward them with another shot straight away. If not, let them bide their time until the next opening.
Isn't that largely what's been happening?
Test 1: Holland, Lio-Willie, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi
Test 2: Vaa'i at 6. Narawa, Tavatavanawai. Another go for Holland, CLW, Proctor, Norris, Kirifi.
Test 3: Kirifi starting. Love, McAllister, Hotham. Another go for Holland, CLW, Tavatavanawai.
Test 4: Vaaí at 6. Holland, Kirifi and Proctor all starting. Norris on the bench.
Test 5: Parker starting. Vaai, Holland, Proctor, Lord.
Test 6. Parker, Proctor, Narawa, Holland, Kirifi, Preston.You and your "facts".
Shhh don’t let anything get in the way of the fact Razor has built more depth in the squad than Hansen and Foster ever did. Isn’t it nice to have six world class props, excellent depth at lock.
Having a six play six, a seven play seven, and an eight play eight for the first time since 2015?
Ooo and a midfield that hasn’t got ALB or Reiko in it.
More depth than Hansen?
Have you actually looked at Hansen's first 2 years of results and Hansens first 15 debutants vs Razor's?
Yeah that's a pretty funny take. Last year's break out player for example wouldn't have even got a game if EB hadn't been hurt. Having said that our tight 5 stocks are building nicely, just have to inject some youth and pace into the backs
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I think there's a bit more to developing players and building depth than counting the number of players that got to play a test or two and I'm not sure why we're saying doing anything better than Foster means Robertson is doing a good job.
Robertson is doing well trying to develop, for example, Proctor - he's getting a lot of game time against quality opposition and not just because other players are injured. Not at the standard we'd like yet but we'll have to wait and see there. We can't, however, say he's built depth to five players at hooker because George Bell and Brodie McAlister have played a game or three.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
I think there's a bit more to developing players and building depth than counting the number of players that got to play a test or two and I'm not sure why we're saying doing anything better than Foster means Robertson is doing a good job.
Robertson is doing well trying to develop, for example, Proctor - he's getting a lot of game time against quality opposition and not just because other players are injured. Not at the standard we'd like yet but we'll have to wait and see there. We can't, however, say he's built depth to five players at hooker because George Bell and Brodie McAlister have played a game or three.
As you say, lots of those guys either for nothing but garbage time, or a little time against weak opposition
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When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
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My intuition is that Proctor will not be the guy and will end up with a similar test career to David Havili if he's lucky.
I say that thinking that Proctor was going to be the guy so my intuition could be wrong.
In the past players with his level of provincial experience didn't get endless tests to prove themselves. Even Havili looked a lot better initially for the ABs than Proctor has.
Not sure why Proctor gets so many chances when Love gets hardly any while Love has looked better at test level.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
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@Chris-B To repeat myself, the reason some think they can’t select, for example, Ruben Love for the next two important games is that, over the past two years, he’s only had one game against Japan and one against France, not playing in the top side. If he’d been given more game time, he might well be a genuine option now.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
his throwing was shit (and possibly still is). If Razor picks another vet hooker as the third 2, they probably stay in NZ.
Bell should have been around the squad as an apprentice, not paid as a front line AB when they didn't trust him. He could be amazing - but he is a fair way off that yet.
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@nzzp Unfortunately, the vet hooker was too small, so he would only ever have been a stopgap until Takei'aho returned. Then back to the wilderness never to been seen again.
Bell has gone back to the wilderness, but there's a pretty good chance he'll return in the future and therefore the development won't have been wasted.
Said at the time I thought it was the right decision to make a development pick and haven't changed my view.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
I think the argument is that the likes of Love could very well be in our best 23 if given a chance.
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@KiwiMurph He's got a tough row to hoe.
I see him as a bit of a like-for-like with DMac, right now - likely to come on at fullback and cover first five. But, far less compelling as a first five.
So, realistically, he's got to push out DMac, Jordan or Beaudy - unless we try him on the wing, but I don't think he has the pace for that to be sustainble.
It's pretty clear that long-term, they want Jordan to play fullback - so I don't see shifting him to wing to accommodate Love as sustainable, either. I'd rather see Tangitau etc fast tracked in.
It's unfortunate for Ruben, but he's far from the first who has to bide his time. Sam Cane still got to 100 tests.
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