All Blacks 2025
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I think there's a bit more to developing players and building depth than counting the number of players that got to play a test or two and I'm not sure why we're saying doing anything better than Foster means Robertson is doing a good job.
Robertson is doing well trying to develop, for example, Proctor - he's getting a lot of game time against quality opposition and not just because other players are injured. Not at the standard we'd like yet but we'll have to wait and see there. We can't, however, say he's built depth to five players at hooker because George Bell and Brodie McAlister have played a game or three.
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I think there's a bit more to developing players and building depth than counting the number of players that got to play a test or two and I'm not sure why we're saying doing anything better than Foster means Robertson is doing a good job.
Robertson is doing well trying to develop, for example, Proctor - he's getting a lot of game time against quality opposition and not just because other players are injured. Not at the standard we'd like yet but we'll have to wait and see there. We can't, however, say he's built depth to five players at hooker because George Bell and Brodie McAlister have played a game or three.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
I think there's a bit more to developing players and building depth than counting the number of players that got to play a test or two and I'm not sure why we're saying doing anything better than Foster means Robertson is doing a good job.
Robertson is doing well trying to develop, for example, Proctor - he's getting a lot of game time against quality opposition and not just because other players are injured. Not at the standard we'd like yet but we'll have to wait and see there. We can't, however, say he's built depth to five players at hooker because George Bell and Brodie McAlister have played a game or three.
As you say, lots of those guys either for nothing but garbage time, or a little time against weak opposition
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When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
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My intuition is that Proctor will not be the guy and will end up with a similar test career to David Havili if he's lucky.
I say that thinking that Proctor was going to be the guy so my intuition could be wrong.
In the past players with his level of provincial experience didn't get endless tests to prove themselves. Even Havili looked a lot better initially for the ABs than Proctor has.
Not sure why Proctor gets so many chances when Love gets hardly any while Love has looked better at test level.
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When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
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When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
@Chris-B To repeat myself, the reason some think they can’t select, for example, Ruben Love for the next two important games is that, over the past two years, he’s only had one game against Japan and one against France, not playing in the top side. If he’d been given more game time, he might well be a genuine option now.
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When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
his throwing was shit (and possibly still is). If Razor picks another vet hooker as the third 2, they probably stay in NZ.
Bell should have been around the squad as an apprentice, not paid as a front line AB when they didn't trust him. He could be amazing - but he is a fair way off that yet.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
his throwing was shit (and possibly still is). If Razor picks another vet hooker as the third 2, they probably stay in NZ.
Bell should have been around the squad as an apprentice, not paid as a front line AB when they didn't trust him. He could be amazing - but he is a fair way off that yet.
@nzzp Unfortunately, the vet hooker was too small, so he would only ever have been a stopgap until Takei'aho returned. Then back to the wilderness never to been seen again.
Bell has gone back to the wilderness, but there's a pretty good chance he'll return in the future and therefore the development won't have been wasted.
Said at the time I thought it was the right decision to make a development pick and haven't changed my view.
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@nzzp Unfortunately, the vet hooker was too small, so he would only ever have been a stopgap until Takei'aho returned. Then back to the wilderness never to been seen again.
Bell has gone back to the wilderness, but there's a pretty good chance he'll return in the future and therefore the development won't have been wasted.
Said at the time I thought it was the right decision to make a development pick and haven't changed my view.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
he would only ever have been a stopgap until Takei'aho returned.
Agree.
But at least you'd trust them to throw to a lineout.
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When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
I think the argument is that the likes of Love could very well be in our best 23 if given a chance.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
I think the argument is that the likes of Love could very well be in our best 23 if given a chance.
@KiwiMurph He's got a tough row to hoe.
I see him as a bit of a like-for-like with DMac, right now - likely to come on at fullback and cover first five. But, far less compelling as a first five.
So, realistically, he's got to push out DMac, Jordan or Beaudy - unless we try him on the wing, but I don't think he has the pace for that to be sustainble.
It's pretty clear that long-term, they want Jordan to play fullback - so I don't see shifting him to wing to accommodate Love as sustainable, either. I'd rather see Tangitau etc fast tracked in.
It's unfortunate for Ruben, but he's far from the first who has to bide his time. Sam Cane still got to 100 tests.
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@KiwiMurph He's got a tough row to hoe.
I see him as a bit of a like-for-like with DMac, right now - likely to come on at fullback and cover first five. But, far less compelling as a first five.
So, realistically, he's got to push out DMac, Jordan or Beaudy - unless we try him on the wing, but I don't think he has the pace for that to be sustainble.
It's pretty clear that long-term, they want Jordan to play fullback - so I don't see shifting him to wing to accommodate Love as sustainable, either. I'd rather see Tangitau etc fast tracked in.
It's unfortunate for Ruben, but he's far from the first who has to bide his time. Sam Cane still got to 100 tests.
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@Chris-B with Narawa out this weekend there is a prime opportunity to play Jordan at 14 DMac 15 and Love bench.
@KiwiMurph And maybe they will. But, as above - it is a departure from the masterplan, which is Jordan at 15.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
I think you are selling us short
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
Fuck those fluffybunnies.
Pick the team on what's best for the team, not what some petty provincially biased Internet warrior may say.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
You're advocating that the selectors give serious consideration to public opinion, and the trolls on online forums, when selecting the best team to win now and develop for the future?
Jeez, that doesn't say much for their confidence in themselves
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
I think you are selling us short
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
I think you are selling us short
No just read forums a lot. And calm down fellas it was tongue in cheek .
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
You're advocating that the selectors give serious consideration to public opinion, and the trolls on online forums, when selecting the best team to win now and develop for the future?
Jeez, that doesn't say much for their confidence in themselves
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
You're advocating that the selectors give serious consideration to public opinion, and the trolls on online forums, when selecting the best team to win now and develop for the future?
Jeez, that doesn't say much for their confidence in themselves
No as I said it was tongue in cheek FFS,I apologise, I genuinely forget how serious some are over posts and opinions on here.
I don't think they should give any consideration to public opinion in all honesty, I don't think any of us know really enough that they should anyway.
