All Blacks 2025
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When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
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When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
@Chris-B To repeat myself, the reason some think they canāt select, for example, Ruben Love for the next two important games is that, over the past two years, heās only had one game against Japan and one against France, not playing in the top side. If heād been given more game time, he might well be a genuine option now.
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When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
his throwing was shit (and possibly still is). If Razor picks another vet hooker as the third 2, they probably stay in NZ.
Bell should have been around the squad as an apprentice, not paid as a front line AB when they didn't trust him. He could be amazing - but he is a fair way off that yet.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
his throwing was shit (and possibly still is). If Razor picks another vet hooker as the third 2, they probably stay in NZ.
Bell should have been around the squad as an apprentice, not paid as a front line AB when they didn't trust him. He could be amazing - but he is a fair way off that yet.
@nzzp Unfortunately, the vet hooker was too small, so he would only ever have been a stopgap until Takei'aho returned. Then back to the wilderness never to been seen again.
Bell has gone back to the wilderness, but there's a pretty good chance he'll return in the future and therefore the development won't have been wasted.
Said at the time I thought it was the right decision to make a development pick and haven't changed my view.
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@nzzp Unfortunately, the vet hooker was too small, so he would only ever have been a stopgap until Takei'aho returned. Then back to the wilderness never to been seen again.
Bell has gone back to the wilderness, but there's a pretty good chance he'll return in the future and therefore the development won't have been wasted.
Said at the time I thought it was the right decision to make a development pick and haven't changed my view.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
he would only ever have been a stopgap until Takei'aho returned.
Agree.
But at least you'd trust them to throw to a lineout.
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When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
I think the argument is that the likes of Love could very well be in our best 23 if given a chance.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
I think the argument is that the likes of Love could very well be in our best 23 if given a chance.
@KiwiMurph He's got a tough row to hoe.
I see him as a bit of a like-for-like with DMac, right now - likely to come on at fullback and cover first five. But, far less compelling as a first five.
So, realistically, he's got to push out DMac, Jordan or Beaudy - unless we try him on the wing, but I don't think he has the pace for that to be sustainble.
It's pretty clear that long-term, they want Jordan to play fullback - so I don't see shifting him to wing to accommodate Love as sustainable, either. I'd rather see Tangitau etc fast tracked in.
It's unfortunate for Ruben, but he's far from the first who has to bide his time. Sam Cane still got to 100 tests.
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@KiwiMurph He's got a tough row to hoe.
I see him as a bit of a like-for-like with DMac, right now - likely to come on at fullback and cover first five. But, far less compelling as a first five.
So, realistically, he's got to push out DMac, Jordan or Beaudy - unless we try him on the wing, but I don't think he has the pace for that to be sustainble.
It's pretty clear that long-term, they want Jordan to play fullback - so I don't see shifting him to wing to accommodate Love as sustainable, either. I'd rather see Tangitau etc fast tracked in.
It's unfortunate for Ruben, but he's far from the first who has to bide his time. Sam Cane still got to 100 tests.
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@Chris-B with Narawa out this weekend there is a prime opportunity to play Jordan at 14 DMac 15 and Love bench.
@KiwiMurph And maybe they will. But, as above - it is a departure from the masterplan, which is Jordan at 15.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
I think you are selling us short
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
Fuck those fluffybunnies.
Pick the team on what's best for the team, not what some petty provincially biased Internet warrior may say.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
You're advocating that the selectors give serious consideration to public opinion, and the trolls on online forums, when selecting the best team to win now and develop for the future?
Jeez, that doesn't say much for their confidence in themselves
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
I think you are selling us short
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
I think you are selling us short
No just read forums a lot. And calm down fellas it was tongue in cheek .
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
You're advocating that the selectors give serious consideration to public opinion, and the trolls on online forums, when selecting the best team to win now and develop for the future?
Jeez, that doesn't say much for their confidence in themselves
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 he's in his mid 20s. He's mature enough to get over it. He's not Pat Howard.
Yep boo, but what about supporters? I suspect they are not as easy to get over things, especially if this or other forums are to be any example.
You're advocating that the selectors give serious consideration to public opinion, and the trolls on online forums, when selecting the best team to win now and develop for the future?
Jeez, that doesn't say much for their confidence in themselves
No as I said it was tongue in cheek FFS,I apologise, I genuinely forget how serious some are over posts and opinions on here.
I don't think they should give any consideration to public opinion in all honesty, I don't think any of us know really enough that they should anyway. -
@Chris-B with Narawa out this weekend there is a prime opportunity to play Jordan at 14 DMac 15 and Love bench.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B with Narawa out this weekend there is a prime opportunity to play Jordan at 14 DMac 15 and Love bench.
Yes.
I'm very much of the opinion that moving Jordan to 14 to accommodate Love on the bench is the right move.
Jordans single biggest attribute that he brings to the table is his try scoring and that is unaffected whether he plays 14 or 15. I personally don't see any decline in the play at fullback when DMac is there over Jordan so I think it's worth making that switch to be able to put Love in the 23.
Fwiw I think that Jordan is the best option at 14 anyway, so you have your strongest right winger on the wing and the balance of the backline just seems to work better when DMac is on imo. Theres just more of an attacking threat, more rugby IQ on the pitch......
When you have Sevu Reece at 14 he just does way too many erratic things and is wildly unpredictable.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm sure someone mentioned moving goalposts.
I thought you had to be a hypocrite on the Fern?
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm sure someone mentioned moving goalposts.
I thought you had to be a hypocrite on the Fern?
A hypocrite with data/stats is even betterā¦.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B with Narawa out this weekend there is a prime opportunity to play Jordan at 14 DMac 15 and Love bench.
Yes.
I'm very much of the opinion that moving Jordan to 14 to accommodate Love on the bench is the right move.
Jordans single biggest attribute that he brings to the table is his try scoring and that is unaffected whether he plays 14 or 15. I personally don't see any decline in the play at fullback when DMac is there over Jordan so I think it's worth making that switch to be able to put Love in the 23.
Fwiw I think that Jordan is the best option at 14 anyway, so you have your strongest right winger on the wing and the balance of the backline just seems to work better when DMac is on imo. Theres just more of an attacking threat, more rugby IQ on the pitch......
When you have Sevu Reece at 14 he just does way too many erratic things and is wildly unpredictable.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
When you have Sevu Reece at 14 he just does way too many erratic things and is wildly unpredictable.
I donāt think thatās true. He has a high work rate and makes few errors with ball in hand and has been one of our better support players. For me itās the high ball work that has been exposed and going into a Springbok series with their high ratio of kick to pass, they went for a better exponent, and rightly so.
Also, Jordan is now better at fullback. A bit like how Ben Smith evolved into a better player at fullback because of the point of attack etc, even though he started on the RW and could still fill a role but with less impact.
Iād rather they did something else to keep Jordan at fullback.
emoji to convey that you were having a larf....? 