All Blacks 2025
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When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Not a development team ... For Crusaders...!!
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If love doesn’t get game time because he is too much like dmac and sits behind him in the pecking order .
You got to wonder where he sits when mounga waltzs back into the squad and starts at 10 ( most seem to think this will happen) then do we have beaudie and dmac competing for 23 . Is love surplus?
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 might I suggest you use the
emoji to convey that you were having a larf....?
usually do mate, but as my mouse has packed it in, I just getting lazy moving the arrow around where I want it Thought it was fairly obvious anyway, but I know now. -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
Love started (I think) 6 games at 10 this year - his first start was in round 10.
Kemara was injured in round 11, so Reihana was starting after that. Pretty similar.
How many starts for Jacomb this year? Probably pretty similar too I'd reckon. -
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
Love started (I think) 6 games at 10 this year - his first start was in round 10.
Kemara was injured in round 11, so Reihana was starting after that. Pretty similar.
How many starts for Jacomb this year? Probably pretty similar too I'd reckon.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
Love started (I think) 6 games at 10 this year - his first start was in round 10.
Kemara was injured in round 11, so Reihana was starting after that. Pretty similar.
How many starts for Jacomb this year? Probably pretty similar too I'd reckon.Love started 5 games at First Five
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
Love started (I think) 6 games at 10 this year - his first start was in round 10.
Kemara was injured in round 11, so Reihana was starting after that. Pretty similar.
How many starts for Jacomb this year? Probably pretty similar too I'd reckon.Love started 5 games at First Five
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
When George Bell got picked last year there were a lot of people vociferously stating that the ABs are not a development team.
Now it seems there's a vociferous majority think they are a development team - at least for the best part of four years - and they presumably only stop being a development team when we get to RWC knockout matches?
Like Pakman, I'm happy to field our best team for the next couple of games. Try and put a bit more disarray into Rassie and Joe's plans.
Let's not confuse development with giving people who have earned a chance an opportunity. Fihaki was a development pick at best for example. Ruben Love is an example of a guy who has done the business at super level for multiple seasons. He has the potential to be what we need. These are two different things
I can see your point, but as pointed out Love hasn't done much business at super at 10 which some are advocating. I like to see him get sometime in outside backs at some stage, but not sure he has had a better body of work at 15 than Jordan (who I like to see at 14 anyway) , or even DMac. I think he needs a full season somewhere to really hammer home his point maybe, he has had quite a few injuries hasn't he?
Love started (I think) 6 games at 10 this year - his first start was in round 10.
Kemara was injured in round 11, so Reihana was starting after that. Pretty similar.
How many starts for Jacomb this year? Probably pretty similar too I'd reckon.Love started 5 games at First Five
Clearly not enough for some..... IMHO he's done enough to warrant serious consideration and some game time as a 10/15 sub. Especially if Narawa is out and they are considering moving DMac to 15, or BB to 15
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The case for Love (or another player) at first five comes down to this: is Barrett still playing at a level that gives the All Blacks a real shot at the 2027 World Cup, or is he already on a downward trajectory? If he's up to it, fine, keep him. If not, wouldn’t it be better to give someone else meaningful game time and see if they can surpass him by 2027? Barrett can still hang around - he’ll be the same player whether he plays every test or not.
If it were up to me, I’d have started McKenzie in all the games Barrett played last year and this year, with Love (given that's who's in the squad) now on the bench getting proper minutes - not just token cameos - and eventually starting if he shows enough ability.
That said, Robertson looks set on Mo'unga, which is risky in its own way. He wasn’t as good as Robertson seems to believe when he left and after his stint in Japan, there’s no guarantee he’ll come back at the required level.
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Ok. fair enough 3-5 or 6 I not sure is enough starts to be starting at 10 for ABs. As I said, I a fan of Love, but haven't seen enough of him at 10 to think he ready for the job. I would almost bet that almost no test coach in world would. I certainly have no probs with him on bench, but even that I think he would cover 15? Still if the coaches thought he was ready, I wouldn't argue either.
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I agree @Dan54 no way Love could be considered at 10 for the ABs, he doesn't have nearly enough time there at the professional level. Right now he's a 15, but behind DMac and Jordan who are both clearly superior players.
If Love is serious about playing 10 then he needs to push his case with the Canes and play a full season there, not be shunted around to accommodate other players. He chose to play 15 a couple of years back when given the choice so I am not convinced he actually wants to be a 10 first.
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The case for Love (or another player) at first five comes down to this: is Barrett still playing at a level that gives the All Blacks a real shot at the 2027 World Cup, or is he already on a downward trajectory? If he's up to it, fine, keep him. If not, wouldn’t it be better to give someone else meaningful game time and see if they can surpass him by 2027? Barrett can still hang around - he’ll be the same player whether he plays every test or not.
If it were up to me, I’d have started McKenzie in all the games Barrett played last year and this year, with Love (given that's who's in the squad) now on the bench getting proper minutes - not just token cameos - and eventually starting if he shows enough ability.
That said, Robertson looks set on Mo'unga, which is risky in its own way. He wasn’t as good as Robertson seems to believe when he left and after his stint in Japan, there’s no guarantee he’ll come back at the required level.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
The case for Love (or another player) at first five comes down to this: is Barrett still playing at a level that gives the All Blacks a real shot at the 2027 World Cup, or is he already on a downward trajectory? If he's up to it, fine, keep him. If not, wouldn’t it be better to give someone else meaningful game time and see if they can surpass him by 2027? Barrett can still hang around - he’ll be the same player whether he plays every test or not.
If it were up to me, I’d have started McKenzie in all the games Barrett played last year and this year, with Love (given that's who's in the squad) now on the bench getting proper minutes - not just token cameos - and eventually starting if he shows enough ability.
That said, Robertson looks set on Mo'unga, which is risky in its own way. He wasn’t as good as Robertson seems to believe when he left and after his stint in Japan, there’s no guarantee he’ll come back at the required level.
If Razor is marking time for RMs return, he risks getting him back diminished, and by the time he realises he's been sold a lemon we will be fucked for RWC27. He will have little margin for error
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
So what's the NZR plan for the first five spot in 2028?
That is a while away yet. I think they will be hoping a Jacomb or a Simpson comes through the system.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
So what's the NZR plan for the first five spot in 2028?
We don't even seem to have a proper plan for 2025-26......
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Lots of people claim to be able to read Razor's mind.... and most likely before he even needs to think about it himself. Remarkable!
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Lots of people claim to be able to read Razor's mind.... and most likely before he even needs to think about it himself. Remarkable!
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
So what's the NZR plan for the first five spot in 2028?
We have had similar concerns about other positions, especially lock and halfback. Both have righted themselves. With 10 we will be coming to the end of an era with Barrett and the departure of Mo'unga. McKenzie in theory should still be around. Jacomb will be 27 and probably making a decision about if he sees a future in NZ. Then there will be Simpson and Muliaina. Mika will have played three seasons and NPC level and two at Super.
The Chiefs will be pissed if they grudgingly agree to let Jacomb go and down the line him and Muliaina are both ABs out of the Landers.
Needs tend to right themselves.
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Reihana, it’s your time fella (in 2027)
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I agree @Dan54 no way Love could be considered at 10 for the ABs, he doesn't have nearly enough time there at the professional level. Right now he's a 15, but behind DMac and Jordan who are both clearly superior players.
If Love is serious about playing 10 then he needs to push his case with the Canes and play a full season there, not be shunted around to accommodate other players. He chose to play 15 a couple of years back when given the choice so I am not convinced he actually wants to be a 10 first.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
I agree @Dan54 no way Love could be considered at 10 for the ABs, he doesn't have nearly enough time there at the professional level. Right now he's a 15, but behind DMac and Jordan who are both clearly superior players.
If Love is serious about playing 10 then he needs to push his case with the Canes and play a full season there, not be shunted around to accommodate other players. He chose to play 15 a couple of years back when given the choice so I am not convinced he actually wants to be a 10 first.
I agree, but would be reasonably comfortable with him as the bench 10/15 right now, particularly if Jordie is at 12 and Roigard at 9, I think that works.
He comes on to play 15 most games, and if we're comfortable give him a go at 10. If we have a 10 injury, then we have a 9 and 12 (both hurricanes) who can kick and are experienced enough to take pressure off, and a pack who could just stick it up the jumper if needed. -
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
So what's the NZR plan for the first five spot in 2028?
We have had similar concerns about other positions, especially lock and halfback. Both have righted themselves. With 10 we will be coming to the end of an era with Barrett and the departure of Mo'unga. McKenzie in theory should still be around. Jacomb will be 27 and probably making a decision about if he sees a future in NZ. Then there will be Simpson and Muliaina. Mika will have played three seasons and NPC level and two at Super.
The Chiefs will be pissed if they grudgingly agree to let Jacomb go and down the line him and Muliaina are both ABs out of the Landers.
Needs tend to right themselves.
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
So what's the NZR plan for the first five spot in 2028?
We have had similar concerns about other positions, especially lock and halfback. Both have righted themselves. With 10 we will be coming to the end of an era with Barrett and the departure of Mo'unga. McKenzie in theory should still be around. Jacomb will be 27 and probably making a decision about if he sees a future in NZ. Then there will be Simpson and Muliaina. Mika will have played three seasons and NPC level and two at Super.
The Chiefs will be pissed if they grudgingly agree to let Jacomb go and down the line him and Muliaina are both ABs out of the Landers.
Needs tend to right themselves.
We are still short a young 2m TH lock. Patty T can’t go in forever and we need a backup to Tupou V.
