All Blacks 2025
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Well if you look at the current make up of the 23 (assuming no injuries):
- De Groot (Foster RWC 23 starter)
- Taylor (Hansen RWC 23 Starter)
- Newell (Foster)
- Scott Barrett (Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- Va’ai (Foster)
- Parker ( Robertson)
- Savea (Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- Sititi (Robertson)
- Roigard ( Foster Debut 23)
- Barrett (Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- Ioane ( Hansen RWC 23 starter)
- J Barrett (Hansen RWC 23 Starter)
- Proctor (Robertson)
- Narawa (Foster - debut 23 one cap)
- Jordan (Foster)
- Taukei’aho (Foster)
- Williams (Foster RWC 23 bench)
- Lomax (Foster RWC 23 starter)
- Holland (Robertson)
- Kirifi/Lakai (Robertson)
- Ratima (Robertson)
- Tupaea (Foster)
- Dmac (Hansen RWC 23 bench)
Hansen Debutants: 7
Foster: 10
Robertson: 6Out of Fosters 11: Roigard, Va’ai, Newell, Tupea, Narawa had limited opportunities.
So in the current 23, who exactly has Foster had the most time with? And any forwards in particular that are setting the world on fire that weren’t brought in by Jason Ryan? What exactly did Foster develop in his four years?
Obviously apart from the two stooges at 10, a defunct centre pairing, a backrow with no depth at 6 or 8. Beauden at fullback, Christie as your 2nd halfback?
And out of the barely capped Foster debutants, should any of them not be there and Robertson should have selected another player?
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
What exactly did Foster develop in his four years?
A team which lost the RWC by 1 point with 14 players?
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
So what's the NZR plan for the first five spot in 2028?
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Fabian Holland has the beef to be a tighthead lock and probably will play in that role once Dunshea leaves the Highlanders.
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@Mr-Fish He does according to Wiki, but compared to Etzebeth, who's the same height, I'd say he's got a few kegs to go...
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish He does according to Wiki, but compared to Etzebeth, who's the same height, I'd say he's got a few kegs to go...
Erzbeth is 11 years his senior though. Look at him in 2014 and Holland (now) looks like a much bigger guy than what Etzbeth did then.
Holland will need to go into the tighthead locking role fairly shortly at the Landers when Josh Tengblad comes in. At that point he will be the dominant lock size wise. By a long way.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish He does according to Wiki, but compared to Etzebeth, who's the same height, I'd say he's got a few kegs to go...
Erzbeth is 11 years his senior though. Look at him in 2014 and Holland (now) looks like a much bigger guy than what Etzbeth did then.
Holland will need to go into the tighthead locking role fairly shortly at the Landers when Josh Tengblad comes in. At that point he will be the dominant lock size wise. By a long way.
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish He does according to Wiki, but compared to Etzebeth, who's the same height, I'd say he's got a few kegs to go...
Erzbeth is 11 years his senior though. Look at him in 2014 and Holland (now) looks like a much bigger guy than what Etzbeth did then.
Holland will need to go into the tighthead locking role fairly shortly at the Landers when Josh Tengblad comes in. At that point he will be the dominant lock size wise. By a long way.
If this is true then I’m certainly looking forward to a ‘Mountain from Game of Thrones’ sized Holland running around in 2036.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
What exactly did Foster develop in his four years?
A team which lost the RWC by 1 point with 14 players?
@Victor-Meldrew
Lets be honest the WC 2023 was a lottery. NZ was inconsistent with game plan and selections haphazard.
The WC was poorly organized, particularly the seedings and the TMOs a hindrance.
The French people had lost interest after the quarter finals.
The tournament was a bit of a let down after starting so well.
For all the moaners we are now on a much more consistent path. -
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish He does according to Wiki, but compared to Etzebeth, who's the same height, I'd say he's got a few kegs to go...
Erzbeth is 11 years his senior though. Look at him in 2014 and Holland (now) looks like a much bigger guy than what Etzbeth did then.
Holland will need to go into the tighthead locking role fairly shortly at the Landers when Josh Tengblad comes in. At that point he will be the dominant lock size wise. By a long way.
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish He does according to Wiki, but compared to Etzebeth, who's the same height, I'd say he's got a few kegs to go...
Erzbeth is 11 years his senior though. Look at him in 2014 and Holland (now) looks like a much bigger guy than what Etzbeth did then.
Holland will need to go into the tighthead locking role fairly shortly at the Landers when Josh Tengblad comes in. At that point he will be the dominant lock size wise. By a long way.
With no stats to back it up I would have thought Holland is a bigger unit now than the baby faced eben when he first came into their squad. He was nowhere near the intimidating figure he is now.
I remember people joking around saying he looked like zoolander . -
My understanding was that EE came from a pretty tough background in CT and that with his size then was why he had a reputation early on. Some of the SA posters may be able to confirm this?!
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@Chris-B Agree, although it beggars belief how few caps Ruben Love has received for a potentially world class player.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B Agree, although it beggars belief how few caps Ruben Love has received for a potentially world class player.
We are yet to see him rip up super rugby and demand selection in the ABs.
He needs to earn it but is stuck in that catch 22 of being in the squad and needs minutes and 15-20 minutes every 4-8 weeks aint going to help him.
I would have thought with his aerial skills he would have been an ideal candidate for our backline, and that we need to develop another 10. But is it really his poistion?
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B Agree, although it beggars belief how few caps Ruben Love has received for a potentially world class player.
We are yet to see him rip up super rugby and demand selection in the ABs.
He needs to earn it but is stuck in that catch 22 of being in the squad and needs minutes and 15-20 minutes every 4-8 weeks aint going to help him.
I would have thought with his aerial skills he would have been an ideal candidate for our backline, and that we need to develop another 10. But is it really his poistion?
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B Agree, although it beggars belief how few caps Ruben Love has received for a potentially world class player.
We are yet to see him rip up super rugby and demand selection in the ABs.
He needs to earn it but is stuck in that catch 22 of being in the squad and needs minutes and 15-20 minutes every 4-8 weeks aint going to help him.
I would have thought with his aerial skills he would have been an ideal candidate for our backline, and that we need to develop another 10. But is it really his poistion?
I don't see him being a long term prospect at fullback - he's just too slow.
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Razor has been saying things like "my job is to build depth" fairly regularly as if that is an end unto itself.
His job is to coach the team to wins firstly - and then secondly entertaining wins. Whether or not that requires depth as in four players deep for each position is another matter.
He seems to be a bit confused about his priorities.
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Some interesting discussions around Jacomb.
He looked completely out of his depth in that Barbarian's game against South Africa composure wise. Just failed to execute.
In terms of Love from what I have seen he has a good long punt on him and I would wager it's quite a bit better than BB's where as Jacomb is another pop gun kick guy.
Love manipulated the Hurricanes backline really well when at 10 with his passing game and running on to the ball. They had some good synchronicity going.
Hopefully Laidlaw has the foresight to move on from Cameron as the main 10.
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Razor has been saying things like "my job is to build depth" fairly regularly as if that is an end unto itself.
His job is to coach the team to wins firstly - and then secondly entertaining wins. Whether or not that requires depth as in four players deep for each position is another matter.
He seems to be a bit confused about his priorities.
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
and then secondly entertaining wins
really?
Surely winning is the entertainment?
Winning is winning, be it pretty or ugly...
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@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish He does according to Wiki, but compared to Etzebeth, who's the same height, I'd say he's got a few kegs to go...
Erzbeth is 11 years his senior though. Look at him in 2014 and Holland (now) looks like a much bigger guy than what Etzbeth did then.
Holland will need to go into the tighthead locking role fairly shortly at the Landers when Josh Tengblad comes in. At that point he will be the dominant lock size wise. By a long way.
With no stats to back it up I would have thought Holland is a bigger unit now than the baby faced eben when he first came into their squad. He was nowhere near the intimidating figure he is now.
I remember people joking around saying he looked like zoolander .@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish He does according to Wiki, but compared to Etzebeth, who's the same height, I'd say he's got a few kegs to go...
Erzbeth is 11 years his senior though. Look at him in 2014 and Holland (now) looks like a much bigger guy than what Etzbeth did then.
Holland will need to go into the tighthead locking role fairly shortly at the Landers when Josh Tengblad comes in. At that point he will be the dominant lock size wise. By a long way.
With no stats to back it up I would have thought Holland is a bigger unit now than the baby faced eben when he first came into their squad. He was nowhere near the intimidating figure he is now.
> I remember people joking around saying he looked like zoolander .Not to his face. Etzebeth has always been a huge scary psycho just with less facial hair in the early days
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Razor has been saying things like "my job is to build depth" fairly regularly as if that is an end unto itself.
His job is to coach the team to wins firstly - and then secondly entertaining wins. Whether or not that requires depth as in four players deep for each position is another matter.
He seems to be a bit confused about his priorities.
@brodean That approach works if you have no interest in winning games in 2-3 years time, or when injuries strike. I think its a critical job of the all blacks coach to have succession & contingency built into their squad and how they select players.
Similarly the balancing act of keeping fringe players interested in the jersey and not heading off shore -
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
and then secondly entertaining wins
really?
Surely winning is the entertainment?
Winning is winning, be it pretty or ugly...
@taniwharugby Thought that someone would say that for me. Pretty sure Razor is well aware of his job, and priorities. He is also making sure that other people know that he is trying to build depth not just making changes for the sake of it or “dropping” players.
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@brodean That approach works if you have no interest in winning games in 2-3 years time, or when injuries strike. I think its a critical job of the all blacks coach to have succession & contingency built into their squad and how they select players.
Similarly the balancing act of keeping fringe players interested in the jersey and not heading off shore@DurryMexted said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@brodean That approach works if you have no interest in winning games in 2-3 years time, or when injuries strike. I think its a critical job of the all blacks coach to have succession & contingency built into their squad and how they select players.
Similarly the balancing act of keeping fringe players interested in the jersey and not heading off shoreYou don't need to have players four deep in every position to have succession.
Replace players as needed with the next best cab off the rank has worked fine in the past. He hasn't even been picking the next best cab off the rank in a number of selections. Players like Fihaki and Bell were picked purely on his perceived potential over other players with a long CV of form and rounded game.
In the modern game injuries naturally force changes without having 'building depth four deep' as the primary number one focus.
Just managing injuries in the modern game will naturally build depth.
