All Blacks 2025
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish He does according to Wiki, but compared to Etzebeth, who's the same height, I'd say he's got a few kegs to go...
Erzbeth is 11 years his senior though. Look at him in 2014 and Holland (now) looks like a much bigger guy than what Etzbeth did then.
Holland will need to go into the tighthead locking role fairly shortly at the Landers when Josh Tengblad comes in. At that point he will be the dominant lock size wise. By a long way.
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@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish He does according to Wiki, but compared to Etzebeth, who's the same height, I'd say he's got a few kegs to go...
Erzbeth is 11 years his senior though. Look at him in 2014 and Holland (now) looks like a much bigger guy than what Etzbeth did then.
Holland will need to go into the tighthead locking role fairly shortly at the Landers when Josh Tengblad comes in. At that point he will be the dominant lock size wise. By a long way.
If this is true then I’m certainly looking forward to a ‘Mountain from Game of Thrones’ sized Holland running around in 2036.
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@Victor-Meldrew
Lets be honest the WC 2023 was a lottery. NZ was inconsistent with game plan and selections haphazard.
The WC was poorly organized, particularly the seedings and the TMOs a hindrance.
The French people had lost interest after the quarter finals.
The tournament was a bit of a let down after starting so well.
For all the moaners we are now on a much more consistent path. -
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish He does according to Wiki, but compared to Etzebeth, who's the same height, I'd say he's got a few kegs to go...
Erzbeth is 11 years his senior though. Look at him in 2014 and Holland (now) looks like a much bigger guy than what Etzbeth did then.
Holland will need to go into the tighthead locking role fairly shortly at the Landers when Josh Tengblad comes in. At that point he will be the dominant lock size wise. By a long way.
With no stats to back it up I would have thought Holland is a bigger unit now than the baby faced eben when he first came into their squad. He was nowhere near the intimidating figure he is now.
I remember people joking around saying he looked like zoolander . -
My understanding was that EE came from a pretty tough background in CT and that with his size then was why he had a reputation early on. Some of the SA posters may be able to confirm this?!
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B Agree, although it beggars belief how few caps Ruben Love has received for a potentially world class player.
We are yet to see him rip up super rugby and demand selection in the ABs.
He needs to earn it but is stuck in that catch 22 of being in the squad and needs minutes and 15-20 minutes every 4-8 weeks aint going to help him.
I would have thought with his aerial skills he would have been an ideal candidate for our backline, and that we need to develop another 10. But is it really his poistion?
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B Agree, although it beggars belief how few caps Ruben Love has received for a potentially world class player.
We are yet to see him rip up super rugby and demand selection in the ABs.
He needs to earn it but is stuck in that catch 22 of being in the squad and needs minutes and 15-20 minutes every 4-8 weeks aint going to help him.
I would have thought with his aerial skills he would have been an ideal candidate for our backline, and that we need to develop another 10. But is it really his poistion?
I don't see him being a long term prospect at fullback - he's just too slow.
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Razor has been saying things like "my job is to build depth" fairly regularly as if that is an end unto itself.
His job is to coach the team to wins firstly - and then secondly entertaining wins. Whether or not that requires depth as in four players deep for each position is another matter.
He seems to be a bit confused about his priorities.
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Some interesting discussions around Jacomb.
He looked completely out of his depth in that Barbarian's game against South Africa composure wise. Just failed to execute.
In terms of Love from what I have seen he has a good long punt on him and I would wager it's quite a bit better than BB's where as Jacomb is another pop gun kick guy.
Love manipulated the Hurricanes backline really well when at 10 with his passing game and running on to the ball. They had some good synchronicity going.
Hopefully Laidlaw has the foresight to move on from Cameron as the main 10.
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@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
and then secondly entertaining wins
really?
Surely winning is the entertainment?
Winning is winning, be it pretty or ugly...
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish He does according to Wiki, but compared to Etzebeth, who's the same height, I'd say he's got a few kegs to go...
Erzbeth is 11 years his senior though. Look at him in 2014 and Holland (now) looks like a much bigger guy than what Etzbeth did then.
Holland will need to go into the tighthead locking role fairly shortly at the Landers when Josh Tengblad comes in. At that point he will be the dominant lock size wise. By a long way.
With no stats to back it up I would have thought Holland is a bigger unit now than the baby faced eben when he first came into their squad. He was nowhere near the intimidating figure he is now.
> I remember people joking around saying he looked like zoolander .Not to his face. Etzebeth has always been a huge scary psycho just with less facial hair in the early days
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@brodean That approach works if you have no interest in winning games in 2-3 years time, or when injuries strike. I think its a critical job of the all blacks coach to have succession & contingency built into their squad and how they select players.
Similarly the balancing act of keeping fringe players interested in the jersey and not heading off shore -
@taniwharugby Thought that someone would say that for me. Pretty sure Razor is well aware of his job, and priorities. He is also making sure that other people know that he is trying to build depth not just making changes for the sake of it or “dropping” players.
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@DurryMexted said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@brodean That approach works if you have no interest in winning games in 2-3 years time, or when injuries strike. I think its a critical job of the all blacks coach to have succession & contingency built into their squad and how they select players.
Similarly the balancing act of keeping fringe players interested in the jersey and not heading off shoreYou don't need to have players four deep in every position to have succession.
Replace players as needed with the next best cab off the rank has worked fine in the past. He hasn't even been picking the next best cab off the rank in a number of selections. Players like Fihaki and Bell were picked purely on his perceived potential over other players with a long CV of form and rounded game.
In the modern game injuries naturally force changes without having 'building depth four deep' as the primary number one focus.
Just managing injuries in the modern game will naturally build depth.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Except at 10 of course, he's sure as shit not building depth there, or encouraging players to stick around.
I agree with you in principle but I suppose he thinks he’s got 3 already…throw in Love and he’s got his 4.
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@DurryMexted
Sort of agree and the balance is hard to find but I’m a bit sick of this building for the future argument. When Robertson took over he had more than 40 tests before the World Cup and these are tests we want to win. From being a bet meh about him I give him credit for building depth ( 8 new caps this year) without throwing games away. -
It's not even possible to build depth to four players in each position. There just isn't enough game time to get every player enough experience - and recent experience if they get the call up - to be accustomed to test rugby. A couple of caps against Japan or ten minutes at a time here and there doesn't cut it.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
It's not even possible to build depth to four players in each position. There just isn't enough game time to get every player enough experience - and recent experience if they get the call up - to be accustomed to test rugby. A couple of caps against Japan or ten minutes at a time here and there doesn't to cut it.
i kind of agree in principle, add to that when we have most super rugby teams trying to play the same way we're not getting much different from the few choices we have
but, we also dont help ourselves with the persistence of the bench spot just being the second best available in a position rather than having as many of the next generation on the bench as we can
