All Blacks 2025
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
MacKenzie is so overrated on here, he's a liability in big games and was fucking awful on the weekend.
'Liability in big games...', like against Ireland last year?
When he led us to our first win in Dublin in nearly a decade? Against the number 1 team in the world?
Or when he came off the bench and led us to a win against England at Twickenham?
Three super rugby finals in a row he's been useless.... and a bunch of test matches last year (he was deservedly dropped)
We won that Ireland game because |reland made a shitload of handling errors..
We were lucky to win that England game, thanks to Mark Telea and England missing that penalty at the end.
Mackenzie was dropped for a reason last year, he's a selfish player who can't control a tight game.
@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
Mackenzie was dropped for a reason last year, he's a selfish player who can't control a tight game.
BB should be dropped for multiple reasons this year, he's a scared player who can't control a tight game.
And DMac passes a lot for a so-called selfish player.
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look, we're all just shouting in to the void, none of us have any idea what is actually going on inside the camp. But we care, so we make shit up. We're also not helped by the lack of honesty in teh communications, but that's another story.
That said, from the outside, there does look like a culture that lacks an edge, that lacks accountability, but is very big on acceptance. The last few posts about Richie M are telling, given the posters who made them.
Fine, you don't trust DMac with the keys, your call you're the coach. But there is no way BB deserves to be the starting 10 for a top level team, yet he's just there accumulating substandard cap after substandard cap. It looks for all the world like no accountability for performance, but acceptance of "well there's no one else, and i don't need to develop any one because i get another 10 back next year". If RMo comes back like everyone else comes back from Japan then we are fuuuuuucked.Scott Barrett is the captain. You would be hard pressed to suggest he is in the top 3 performing locks this year. Walked around a lot on Saturday. Accountability? no. Acceptance? yes.
You could go through the squad and find underperforming players that are immune to accountability, while we rotate the wingers (an absolute coaching classic to look like you are open to change without changing anything).And yes the fucking edge. I get it's 2025, and these blokes just do not care about rugby like we do. It's their job. Half of them probably don't even watch games. But holy shit guys, the only reason you get paid as much as you do in a tiny country in the corner of nowhere is because the people of that tiny country care a lot. It isn't just a game champ, it's your literal profession, paid for because people very much give serious fucks. Again, we're not there, maybe the boys are hurting in the sheds, but shit boys, messaging matters!
7 tests in to the year, very consistent selections, can anyone honestly say the team is improving? Everyone expects a backlash against Australia, are we capable of one? And will it mean anything? Recent history says even if we do play well, that level will not be replicated in Perth.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
look, we're all just shouting in to the void, none of us have any idea what is actually going on inside the camp.
You must be new here.
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@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
Mackenzie was dropped for a reason last year, he's a selfish player who can't control a tight game.
BB should be dropped for multiple reasons this year, he's a scared player who can't control a tight game.
And DMac passes a lot for a so-called selfish player.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
Mackenzie was dropped for a reason last year, he's a selfish player who can't control a tight game.
BB should be dropped for multiple reasons this year, he's a scared player who can't control a tight game.
And DMac passes a lot for a so-called selfish player.
I'm convinced Barrett is only still playing because he's after that most caps record. He probably thought he'd be able to retire with the most tries too but Jordan will likely mess that one up for him.
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@antipodean that Razor had a deadshit game plan and it was the senior players that saved it?
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean that Razor had a deadshit game plan and it was the senior players that saved it?
There's a snippet where Sam is doing the talking and Razor looks lost beside him.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean that Razor had a deadshit game plan and it was the senior players that saved it?
There's a snippet where Sam is doing the talking and Razor looks lost beside him.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean that Razor had a deadshit game plan and it was the senior players that saved it?
There's a snippet where Sam is doing the talking and Razor looks lost beside him.
How well would Robertson have done coaching another Super Rugby team without the talent the Crusaders system gave him access to?
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@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
Also, fuck Richie Mou'aga swanning back for 1 season and then leaving again.... another one that doesn't want to work for his spot in the team.
I'm hopeful that this one season thing isn't the actual plan and it's more based around the possibility that things might not unfold as Richie (or Razor) might hope.
Because, if that really is the plan - to swan in play the RWC and fuck off - then he should have been told to fuck off.
And I say that as one of Richie's biggest fans on here.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
Because, if that really is the plan - to swan in play the RWC and fuck off - then he should have been told to fuck off.
And I say that as one of Richie's biggest fans on here.
He's 31 now turns 32 in May 2026, and will be 33 and a half during the 2027 RWC. but he would probably like to win one. Given his age I can't see him having much to offer after RWC even if available. Could play for Samoa or Tonga I guess.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean that Razor had a deadshit game plan and it was the senior players that saved it?
There's a snippet where Sam is doing the talking and Razor looks lost beside him.
How well would Robertson have done coaching another Super Rugby team without the talent the Crusaders system gave him access to?
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean that Razor had a deadshit game plan and it was the senior players that saved it?
There's a snippet where Sam is doing the talking and Razor looks lost beside him.
How well would Robertson have done coaching another Super Rugby team without the talent the Crusaders system gave him access to?
I'm beginning to think he had better assistant coaches than the other sides. Not now, though.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
Mackenzie was dropped for a reason last year, he's a selfish player who can't control a tight game.
BB should be dropped for multiple reasons this year, he's a scared player who can't control a tight game.
And DMac passes a lot for a so-called selfish player.
I'm convinced Barrett is only still playing because he's after that most caps record. He probably thought he'd be able to retire with the most tries too but Jordan will likely mess that one up for him.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
Mackenzie was dropped for a reason last year, he's a selfish player who can't control a tight game.
BB should be dropped for multiple reasons this year, he's a scared player who can't control a tight game.
And DMac passes a lot for a so-called selfish player.
I'm convinced Barrett is only still playing because he's after that most caps record. He probably thought he'd be able to retire with the most tries too but Jordan will likely mess that one up for him.
I think BB could get some good coin in Japan.
But our cupboard of experienced 10s that we can turn to is looking mighty bare 2 years out from the next RWC. -
Can we at least agree that DMac is too small to be put back at 15 against top sides?
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Can we at least agree that DMac is too small to be put back at 15 against top sides?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Can we at least agree that DMac is too small to be put back at 15 against top sides?
Yeah, we can't have him competing with Kolbe in the air.
This discussion has been a bit odd, of all the ABs on the field on Saturday, DMac was the one who had me least worried about taking the high ball.
Dagg cursed Jordan by talking him up to attack RI a few weeks back and now he can't catch shit, and even worse can't score a try that is usually his bread and butter.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Can we at least agree that DMac is too small to be put back at 15 against top sides?
Yeah, we can't have him competing with Kolbe in the air.
This discussion has been a bit odd, of all the ABs on the field on Saturday, DMac was the one who had me least worried about taking the high ball.
Dagg cursed Jordan by talking him up to attack RI a few weeks back and now he can't catch shit, and even worse can't score a try that is usually his bread and butter.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Can we at least agree that DMac is too small to be put back at 15 against top sides?
Yeah, we can't have him competing with Kolbe in the air.
This discussion has been a bit odd, of all the ABs on the field on Saturday, DMac was the one who had me least worried about taking the high ball.
Dagg cursed Jordan by talking him up to attack RI a few weeks back and now he can't catch shit, and even worse can't score a try that is usually his bread and butter.
It's not just his height but his heft. Ability to stop big attackers close to the line. Heart of a lion but he just doesn't have the mass to be an international 15.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Can we at least agree that DMac is too small to be put back at 15 against top sides?
Yeah, we can't have him competing with Kolbe in the air.
This discussion has been a bit odd, of all the ABs on the field on Saturday, DMac was the one who had me least worried about taking the high ball.
Dagg cursed Jordan by talking him up to attack RI a few weeks back and now he can't catch shit, and even worse can't score a try that is usually his bread and butter.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Can we at least agree that DMac is too small to be put back at 15 against top sides?
Yeah, we can't have him competing with Kolbe in the air.
Kolbe is small but phenomenal in the air.
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@restofit said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I've felt Holland has been out of his depth ever since he automatically got the head coaching gig at the Canes, was even more baffled when Razor wanted him on his team.
Holland was assistant coach to Canterbury at the same time as Razor. Razor seems to be a relationship guy - he trusts people he has known for some time. It's great, but only if they are actually really good coaches.
Which Holland has proven he’s not.
Holland is the strike play coach, no? Out of all the coaches this year, he’s been earning his corn off first phase. Not a great deal he can do if the team can’t win good first phase ball. They did in the first test against Boks and they carved them open for 2 tries. That suggests some degree of good coaching, no?
Bryn Evans has been responsible for most of the All Blacks tries off set-piece this year, there was a recent article that detailed the difference Evans has made to the strike plays, which were a real weaknesses for us last year & Razor bringing in Evans is the best thing he's done all tenure - that wrap around try off the back of the scrum in Wellington was a play Evans used previously at the Hurricanes.
I am not sure about that Evans is in charge of the line outs and they have not been great.
Holland was also involved in that strike move as it was from a line out involving the backs..
And that is really the only strike move I have seen that has come off in the last 4 tests.@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@restofit said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I've felt Holland has been out of his depth ever since he automatically got the head coaching gig at the Canes, was even more baffled when Razor wanted him on his team.
Holland was assistant coach to Canterbury at the same time as Razor. Razor seems to be a relationship guy - he trusts people he has known for some time. It's great, but only if they are actually really good coaches.
Which Holland has proven he’s not.
Holland is the strike play coach, no? Out of all the coaches this year, he’s been earning his corn off first phase. Not a great deal he can do if the team can’t win good first phase ball. They did in the first test against Boks and they carved them open for 2 tries. That suggests some degree of good coaching, no?
Bryn Evans has been responsible for most of the All Blacks tries off set-piece this year, there was a recent article that detailed the difference Evans has made to the strike plays, which were a real weaknesses for us last year & Razor bringing in Evans is the best thing he's done all tenure - that wrap around try off the back of the scrum in Wellington was a play Evans used previously at the Hurricanes.
I am not sure about that Evans is in charge of the line outs and they have not been great.
Holland was also involved in that strike move as it was from a line out involving the backs..
And that is really the only strike move I have seen that has come off in the last 4 tests.Are you sure about that?
It’s a try Roigard has scored before for the Hurricanes, which blindside flanker Tupou Vaa’i noted after the match when he credited Evans as the mastermind behind the move.
“We honestly stole that from the Hurricanes eh,” Vaa’i said. “We saw it early on, actually here [in Wellington], against the Highlanders. They did that trick play around the front.
“Bryn is such a creative guy and we’ve been saying for years we need a lineout coach and he’s definitely bringing a different flavour to the lineouts and it’s obviously paying off.”
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@restofit said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I've felt Holland has been out of his depth ever since he automatically got the head coaching gig at the Canes, was even more baffled when Razor wanted him on his team.
Holland was assistant coach to Canterbury at the same time as Razor. Razor seems to be a relationship guy - he trusts people he has known for some time. It's great, but only if they are actually really good coaches.
Which Holland has proven he’s not.
Holland is the strike play coach, no? Out of all the coaches this year, he’s been earning his corn off first phase. Not a great deal he can do if the team can’t win good first phase ball. They did in the first test against Boks and they carved them open for 2 tries. That suggests some degree of good coaching, no?
Bryn Evans has been responsible for most of the All Blacks tries off set-piece this year, there was a recent article that detailed the difference Evans has made to the strike plays, which were a real weaknesses for us last year & Razor bringing in Evans is the best thing he's done all tenure - that wrap around try off the back of the scrum in Wellington was a play Evans used previously at the Hurricanes.
I am not sure about that Evans is in charge of the line outs and they have not been great.
Holland was also involved in that strike move as it was from a line out involving the backs..
And that is really the only strike move I have seen that has come off in the last 4 tests.Are you sure about that?
It’s a try Roigard has scored before for the Hurricanes, which blindside flanker Tupou Vaa’i noted after the match when he credited Evans as the mastermind behind the move.
“We honestly stole that from the Hurricanes eh,” Vaa’i said. “We saw it early on, actually here [in Wellington], against the Highlanders. They did that trick play around the front.
“Bryn is such a creative guy and we’ve been saying for years we need a lineout coach and he’s definitely bringing a different flavour to the lineouts and it’s obviously paying off.”
@restofit said in All Blacks 2025:
“Bryn is such a creative guy and we’ve been saying for years we need a lineout coach and he’s definitely bringing a different flavour to the lineouts and it’s obviously paying off.”
Well its not paying off our line outs were a mess last test.
Yes if you hear Jordan speak he also credited Jason Holland with that move. -
I’m not sure why we are so wedded to the coaching team needing to be NZers, the Boks have Tony Brown and Jerry Flannery, other countries lean on Kiwi talent or overseas coaches - I feel like we are too closed shop.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Can we at least agree that DMac is too small to be put back at 15 against top sides?
Yeah, we can't have him competing with Kolbe in the air.
This discussion has been a bit odd, of all the ABs on the field on Saturday, DMac was the one who had me least worried about taking the high ball.
Dagg cursed Jordan by talking him up to attack RI a few weeks back and now he can't catch shit, and even worse can't score a try that is usually his bread and butter.
It's not just his height but his heft. Ability to stop big attackers close to the line. Heart of a lion but he just doesn't have the mass to be an international 15.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Can we at least agree that DMac is too small to be put back at 15 against top sides?
Yeah, we can't have him competing with Kolbe in the air.
This discussion has been a bit odd, of all the ABs on the field on Saturday, DMac was the one who had me least worried about taking the high ball.
Dagg cursed Jordan by talking him up to attack RI a few weeks back and now he can't catch shit, and even worse can't score a try that is usually his bread and butter.
It's not just his height but his heft. Ability to stop big attackers close to the line. Heart of a lion but he just doesn't have the mass to be an international 15.
I'm not sure we pick our fullbacks based on their performance stopping players that other people should have already stopped. I've always preferred someone with the courage of DMac in defence rather than size and lacking that courage.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@restofit said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I've felt Holland has been out of his depth ever since he automatically got the head coaching gig at the Canes, was even more baffled when Razor wanted him on his team.
Holland was assistant coach to Canterbury at the same time as Razor. Razor seems to be a relationship guy - he trusts people he has known for some time. It's great, but only if they are actually really good coaches.
Which Holland has proven he’s not.
Holland is the strike play coach, no? Out of all the coaches this year, he’s been earning his corn off first phase. Not a great deal he can do if the team can’t win good first phase ball. They did in the first test against Boks and they carved them open for 2 tries. That suggests some degree of good coaching, no?
Bryn Evans has been responsible for most of the All Blacks tries off set-piece this year, there was a recent article that detailed the difference Evans has made to the strike plays, which were a real weaknesses for us last year & Razor bringing in Evans is the best thing he's done all tenure - that wrap around try off the back of the scrum in Wellington was a play Evans used previously at the Hurricanes.
I am not sure about that Evans is in charge of the line outs and they have not been great.
Holland was also involved in that strike move as it was from a line out involving the backs..
And that is really the only strike move I have seen that has come off in the last 4 tests.Are you sure about that?
It’s a try Roigard has scored before for the Hurricanes, which blindside flanker Tupou Vaa’i noted after the match when he credited Evans as the mastermind behind the move.
“We honestly stole that from the Hurricanes eh,” Vaa’i said. “We saw it early on, actually here [in Wellington], against the Highlanders. They did that trick play around the front.
“Bryn is such a creative guy and we’ve been saying for years we need a lineout coach and he’s definitely bringing a different flavour to the lineouts and it’s obviously paying off.”
@restofit said in All Blacks 2025:
“Bryn is such a creative guy and we’ve been saying for years we need a lineout coach and he’s definitely bringing a different flavour to the lineouts and it’s obviously paying off.”
that aged well
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Can we at least agree that DMac is too small to be put back at 15 against top sides?
Yeah, we can't have him competing with Kolbe in the air.
This discussion has been a bit odd, of all the ABs on the field on Saturday, DMac was the one who had me least worried about taking the high ball.
Dagg cursed Jordan by talking him up to attack RI a few weeks back and now he can't catch shit, and even worse can't score a try that is usually his bread and butter.
It's not just his height but his heft. Ability to stop big attackers close to the line. Heart of a lion but he just doesn't have the mass to be an international 15.
I'm not sure we pick our fullbacks based on their performance stopping players that other people should have already stopped. I've always preferred someone with the courage of DMac in defence rather than size and lacking that courage.
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@Nepia we pick them using the same criteria as our midfielders and locks/loosies, i.e. how we can fit them in amongst the Barretts.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia we pick them using the same criteria as our midfielders and locks/loosies, i.e. how we can fit them in amongst the Barretts.
Uncomfortable truth
