All Blacks 2025
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@Frank Love just doesn’t do it for me tbh. Barely a standout in the NPC games he’s played this year. I don’t think he’s ever been the Hurricanes no1 option at 10, would rather see Josh Jacomb or Rivez Reihana get a shot personally.
@upthelanders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Frank Love just doesn’t do it for me tbh. Barely a standout in the NPC games he’s played this year. I don’t think he’s ever been the Hurricanes no1 option at 10, would rather see Josh Jacomb or Rivez Reihana get a shot personally.
I find it hard to make a judgement on the guy when he spends most of the ABs seasons holding tackle bags around the world.
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He was at 10 during the Canes best period during this Super season just gone. Then Laidlaw reinstated Cameron for the playoffs and we went to poo
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
He was at 10 during the Canes best period during this Super season just gone. Then Laidlaw reinstated Cameron for the playoffs and we went to poo
Yeah, I don't know how that's Love's fault.
1 thing I do know as a fan of an opposition side is that when I see someone like Brett Cameron starting, I see it as a relief, as opposed to Love.
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The All Blacks will likely have to stick with a pretty settled team for, at the very least, their next two matches against Ireland and England. There could be a few changes for Scotland and then a few more for Wales, but given how conservative Razor and co have been, that could depend on how those first two matches pan out (given the team Robertson put out against Italy last year).
What does the first-choice team look like now when everyone's fit?
Something along the lines of:
Jordan, Carter, Tupaea, Barrett, Clarke, Barrett, Roigard, Parker, Savea, Vaa'i, Holland, Barrett, Newell, Taylor, De Groot. Reserves: Taukei'aho, Williams, Tosi, Tuipulotu, Sititi, Ratima, Ioane/Fainga'anuku, McKenzie.
Would prefer to see McKenzie at 10 with Love covering from the bench but doubt Razor's thinking has changed regarding the first-choice 10, which means we'll be back to the Barrett show. The loose forwards/locking mix is also up for debate, with the other likely option seeing Vaa'i in the second row with Lakai/Sititi starting in the loosies. Similarly, Williams is probably the best loosehead prop available but he'd offer better value off the bench compared to De Groot and Norris likely doesn't have enough experience to play against Ireland and England.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Something along the lines of:
Jordan, Carter, Tupaea, Barrett, Clarke, Barrett, Roigard, Parker, Savea, Vaa'i, Holland, Barrett, Newell, Taylor, De Groot. Reserves: Taukei'aho, Williams, Tosi, Tuipulotu, Sititi, Ratima, Ioane/Fainga'anuku, McKenzie.
I think Parker at 6 rather than 8 and probably Vaa'i at lock instead of Holland - for now anyway. Probably Sititi at 8, but not on form right now - thought Lakai looked decent last night.
Lomax probably still one of the tightheads.
Not sure Leicester is really ready to cover the midfield, so probably Rieko - but, if you're picking purely an impact bench then Leicester can certainly provide it.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Lakai did alright. He got ragdolled like he was nothing a few times at the breakdown before Skelton went off but that would have happened to any of our other small 8 options in the squad.
I thought he was ok but overall I think his upside is overly optimistic by some. Couldn't honestly say he was better than Lio Willie earlier in the year.
Im unconvinced that any of the 8 options used this year have a higher upside than Sotutu.
The legend of Sotutu grows with every passing week. You’d think he was the next coming of Buck or Zinzan! He’s a good player, but I’m not convinced he’s the answer.
Ardie Savea on the bench as last 30 min super sub. He can cover 6, 7 and 8 (and 12
). Parker at 6. Lakai at 7. Who is the best option to play 8 to complement those 2? Sititi? Who is waiting in the wings or tearing up the NPC at 8?@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Lakai did alright. He got ragdolled like he was nothing a few times at the breakdown before Skelton went off but that would have happened to any of our other small 8 options in the squad.
I thought he was ok but overall I think his upside is overly optimistic by some. Couldn't honestly say he was better than Lio Willie earlier in the year.
Im unconvinced that any of the 8 options used this year have a higher upside than Sotutu.
The legend of Sotutu grows with every passing week. You’d think he was the next coming of Buck or Zinzan! He’s a good player, but I’m not convinced he’s the answer.
Ardie Savea on the bench as last 30 min super sub. He can cover 6, 7 and 8 (and 12
). Parker at 6. Lakai at 7. Who is the best option to play 8 to complement those 2? Sititi? Who is waiting in the wings or tearing up the NPC at 8?2 years ago I had extremely high hopes for Parker and thought he would become an All Black 2 years ago but so far he's another player who has underwhelmed.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Something along the lines of:
Jordan, Carter, Tupaea, Barrett, Clarke, Barrett, Roigard, Parker, Savea, Vaa'i, Holland, Barrett, Newell, Taylor, De Groot. Reserves: Taukei'aho, Williams, Tosi, Tuipulotu, Sititi, Ratima, Ioane/Fainga'anuku, McKenzie.
I think Parker at 6 rather than 8 and probably Vaa'i at lock instead of Holland - for now anyway. Probably Sititi at 8, but not on form right now - thought Lakai looked decent last night.
Lomax probably still one of the tightheads.
Not sure Leicester is really ready to cover the midfield, so probably Rieko - but, if you're picking purely an impact bench then Leicester can certainly provide it.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Something along the lines of:
Jordan, Carter, Tupaea, Barrett, Clarke, Barrett, Roigard, Parker, Savea, Vaa'i, Holland, Barrett, Newell, Taylor, De Groot. Reserves: Taukei'aho, Williams, Tosi, Tuipulotu, Sititi, Ratima, Ioane/Fainga'anuku, McKenzie.
I think Parker at 6 rather than 8 and probably Vaa'i at lock instead of Holland - for now anyway. Probably Sititi at 8, but not on form right now - thought Lakai looked decent last night.
Lomax probably still one of the tightheads.
Not sure Leicester is really ready to cover the midfield, so probably Rieko - but, if you're picking purely an impact bench then Leicester can certainly provide it.
For me the first two names in the starting forwards should be Taylor, and Holland. Our lineout is money with those two. Holland should play for 80 minutes. He is the only real 80 minute option for the locks.
Third forward named should be Newell at the moment.
First three on the bench Tuipulotu, Taukei'aho, and Tosi.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Lakai did alright. He got ragdolled like he was nothing a few times at the breakdown before Skelton went off but that would have happened to any of our other small 8 options in the squad.
I thought he was ok but overall I think his upside is overly optimistic by some. Couldn't honestly say he was better than Lio Willie earlier in the year.
Im unconvinced that any of the 8 options used this year have a higher upside than Sotutu.
The legend of Sotutu grows with every passing week. You’d think he was the next coming of Buck or Zinzan! He’s a good player, but I’m not convinced he’s the answer.
Ardie Savea on the bench as last 30 min super sub. He can cover 6, 7 and 8 (and 12
). Parker at 6. Lakai at 7. Who is the best option to play 8 to complement those 2? Sititi? Who is waiting in the wings or tearing up the NPC at 8?@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Lakai did alright. He got ragdolled like he was nothing a few times at the breakdown before Skelton went off but that would have happened to any of our other small 8 options in the squad.
I thought he was ok but overall I think his upside is overly optimistic by some. Couldn't honestly say he was better than Lio Willie earlier in the year.
Im unconvinced that any of the 8 options used this year have a higher upside than Sotutu.
The legend of Sotutu grows with every passing week. You’d think he was the next coming of Buck or Zinzan! He’s a good player, but I’m not convinced he’s the answer.
Ardie Savea on the bench as last 30 min super sub. He can cover 6, 7 and 8 (and 12
). Parker at 6. Lakai at 7. Who is the best option to play 8 to complement those 2? Sititi? Who is waiting in the wings or tearing up the NPC at 8?We don't know if he is the answer or not because these morons won't bloody pick him!
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Something along the lines of:
Jordan, Carter, Tupaea, Barrett, Clarke, Barrett, Roigard, Parker, Savea, Vaa'i, Holland, Barrett, Newell, Taylor, De Groot. Reserves: Taukei'aho, Williams, Tosi, Tuipulotu, Sititi, Ratima, Ioane/Fainga'anuku, McKenzie.
I think Parker at 6 rather than 8 and probably Vaa'i at lock instead of Holland - for now anyway. Probably Sititi at 8, but not on form right now - thought Lakai looked decent last night.
Lomax probably still one of the tightheads.
Not sure Leicester is really ready to cover the midfield, so probably Rieko - but, if you're picking purely an impact bench then Leicester can certainly provide it.
For me the first two names in the starting forwards should be Taylor, and Holland. Our lineout is money with those two. Holland should play for 80 minutes. He is the only real 80 minute option for the locks.
Third forward named should be Newell at the moment.
First three on the bench Tuipulotu, Taukei'aho, and Tosi.
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I felt like this was worthy of a thread of its own in regards to squad selection. This is my guess for the ABs Squad and ABs XV Squad. Hard to know how many there will be in the XV, but I am picking around 30 for them and 36+1 for the ABs, as am expecting Bower to be with them as a 7th prop:
All Blacks
Props:
Ethan de Groot
Tamaiti Williams
Ollie Norris
Fletcher Newell
Pasilio Tosi
Tevita Mafileo
George Bower (Injury Cover)All Blacks XV
Props:
Xavier Numia
Pouri Rakete-Stones
Josh Fusitua
George Dyer
Josh BartlettNot Available: Tyrel Lomax, Ofa Tu'ungafasi & Saula Ma'u (XV)
Notes: Could be a bit of a race to the bottom at prop for the XV if they do pick Bower for the ABs. Bartlett seems to fit the mould of Tosi and Norris as an impactful ball carrier so they may look to get him into the environment.All Blacks
Hookers:
Codie Taylor
Samisoni Taukei'aho
Brodie McAllisterAll Blacks XV
Hookers:
George Bell
Kurt Eklund
Jack TaylorNot Available: Asafo Aumua
Notes: If Aumua is really out with concussion, that has to be a major concern, but he has not been sighted for a while. Also would not be stunned if Bell and McAllister were the other way around.All Blacks
Locks:
Scott Barrett (c)
Fabian Holland
Patrick Tuipulotu
Sam DarryAll Blacks XV
Locks:
Josh Lord
Naitoa Ah Kuoi
Josh BeehreNot Available: Tupou Vaa'i
Notes: I would have Darry over Lord, but it is hard to keep up with who they rank higher out of those two. Deserved call-up for Beehre to the XV. Suspect Lord ends up as cover for the ABs at some point, in which case they will need another one. Walker-Leawere has been in and around it, so he is the most likely. Antonio Shalfoon won't be far off it either.All Blacks
Loose Forwards:
Simon Parker
Ardie Savea
Peter Lakai
Wallace Sititi
Luke Jacobson
Du'Plessis Kirifi
Samipeni FinauAll Blacks XV
Loose Forwards:
TK Howden
Devan Flanders
Dalton Papalii
Sean Withy
Christian Lio-Willie (c)Not Available: Corey Kellow & Ethan Blackadder
Notes: Think if Vaa'i was fit, Finau would have been squeezed down into the XV, but in the absence of an outstanding candidate to replace him, he survives for now. Howden to be rewarded for a good year I think, and is a Jamie Joseph favourite, and he should have some influence. Kellow, had he stayed fit I think would have been a bolter to blow past Kirifi into the top squad. Haig was there last year, so if he is seen as a player of the future he may be retained as a continuity pick. Bound to be a few injuries at play here.All Blacks
Halfbacks:
Cam Roigard
Cortez Ratima
Finlay ChristieAll Blacks XV
Halfbacks:
Dylan Pledger
Kyle Preston
Xavier RoeNot Available: Noah Hotham
Notes: Probably the position with the most intrigue given the emergence of Pledger? I think they resist the urge to rush him as the number three, so the ginger will be retained, but hard to see him playing outside of the Wales test. I would not be surprised if he links up with the ABs top squad after the two XV games. Fakatava deserves to be here on form, and given Joseph is coach, he may sneak in, but otherwise expecting them in the same order they were called up.All Blacks
First Fives:
Beauden Barrett
Damian McKenzieAll Blacks XV
First Fives:
Josh Jacomb
Rivez ReihanaNot Available: Stephen Perofeta
Notes: Perofeta has been unsighted, so am assuming he is out. Jacomb is the obvious one, and they may only pick one if they decide to release Love down into the XV for one of the two games. Reihana leads the chasing group, though there is daylight.All Blacks
Midfielders:
Jordie Barrett
Quinn Tupaea
Billy Proctor
Rieko Ioane
Anton Lienert-BrownAll Blacks XV
Midfielders:
Dallas McLeod
Brayden Ennor
David Havili
AJ LamNot Available: Timoci Tavatavanawai & Riley Higgins (XV)
Notes: Assuming they pick five in the top squad, it will be those five. Quite funny that we have gone full circle and realised that Rieko is actually a centre, and a very good defensive centre at that. The XV will be continuity picks I think. Ennor a bolter for the top side over ALB, but otherwise McLeod and Havili have been in and around it. Have Lam down as the other centre, though they might go with a bit more of a bolter than thatAll Blacks
Outside Backs:
Caleb Clarke
Leicester Fainga'anuku
Leroy Carter
Emoni Narawa
Will Jordan
Ruben LoveAll Blacks XV
Outside Backs:
Sevu Reece
Caleb Tangitau
Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens
Etene Nanai-Seturo
Fehi FineanganofoNot Available: ?
Notes: Hard to see a world where the ABs don't go for those six outsides. If Narawa is out, am picking they will go Tangitau over Reece. Just seems they have made the decision to move on from the latter. The XV have many options, because a lot of them are very similar. Pretty confident in the first three, less sure on the last two. -
I think a couple of other players who maybe considered for the AB XV
Otherwise you pretty much nailed it.Hooker
Bradley SlaterProp
Finlay BrewisLock
A Shalfoon
Even though you did mention him.LF
M Wrampling -Alec
A player I hear has some fans in the AB coaching set up. -
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Is Norris fit?
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Is Norris fit?
Touch and go for the tour some back issues.
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Generally agree.
Some thoughts, not definitive...
Would Ah Kuoi be a direct replacement for Vaa'i? (For lock/6)
I am back to where I was pre Super season on Kirifi. Too small for tests. Deserved his shot and I have great respect, but we need to developer larger bodies. Maybe decent captain for XV.
Hotham no good? Poo
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Would like to have a closer look at Beehre or Shalfoon
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2 Rugby championships under Razor and we are no further ahead, no RC in the trophy cabinet and if anything, in my opinion we have regressed. Beating the Wallabies and retaining the Bledisloe will take the heat off the coaching group, but it shouldn’t. The record loss(at home too) isn’t talked about enough.
A silver lining is a couple young guys coming through so far this year in Fabian Holland and Leroy Carter, both look the part and look like they could own the jersey. Tupaea stepping up last night is also a step forward for the midfield(still baffled he was subbed, can only assume it was pre determined which does my head in).
End of year tour is going to be extremely interesting, not just in results but with how the public respond if the inconsistencies continue. All Blacks through thick and thin but shit it feels like a weird time to support them right now, something just seems off. Let’s hope it all clicks soon.
Bring on the EOYT.
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2 Rugby championships under Razor and we are no further ahead, no RC in the trophy cabinet and if anything, in my opinion we have regressed. Beating the Wallabies and retaining the Bledisloe will take the heat off the coaching group, but it shouldn’t. The record loss(at home too) isn’t talked about enough.
A silver lining is a couple young guys coming through so far this year in Fabian Holland and Leroy Carter, both look the part and look like they could own the jersey. Tupaea stepping up last night is also a step forward for the midfield(still baffled he was subbed, can only assume it was pre determined which does my head in).
End of year tour is going to be extremely interesting, not just in results but with how the public respond if the inconsistencies continue. All Blacks through thick and thin but shit it feels like a weird time to support them right now, something just seems off. Let’s hope it all clicks soon.
Bring on the EOYT.
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2025:
2 Rugby championships under Razor and we are no further ahead, no RC in the trophy cabinet and if anything, in my opinion we have regressed. Beating the Wallabies and retaining the Bledisloe will take the heat off the coaching group, but it shouldn’t. The record loss(at home too) isn’t talked about enough.
A silver lining is a couple young guys coming through so far this year in Fabian Holland and Leroy Carter, both look the part and look like they could own the jersey. Tupaea stepping up last night is also a step forward for the midfield(still baffled he was subbed, can only assumed it was pre determined which does my head in).
End of year tour is going to be extremely interesting, not just in results but with how the public respond if the inconsistencies continue. All Blacks through thick and thin but shit it feels like a weird time to support them right now, something just seems off. Let’s hope it all clicks soon.
Bring on the EOYT.
There have been times in the past where we simply didn't have the players. The Gregan era springs to mind. At the moment we have decent players but I feel like they are being held back by the coaching team
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For a head coach who is a former loose forward, and a forward coach who appears to highly rated...
How can they not be concerned by the way our loose forwards got absolutely bitched last night? And thats with the best Wallaby loosie half fit coming off the bench?
Wilson made yards at will, and had starch on D. Mcreight was a menace at the breakdown. They were highly visible and highly effective.And this is a theme over a period of time. Remember what the effectively reserve French #8 did to us?
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
For a head coach who is a former loose forward, and a forward coach who appears to highly rated...
How can they not be concerned by the way our loose forwards got absolutely bitched last night? And thats with the best Wallaby loosie half fit coming off the bench?
Wilson made yards at will, and had starch on D. Mcreight was a menace at the breakdown. They were highly visible and highly effective.And this is a theme over a period of time. Remember what the effectively reserve French #8 did to us?
Waaay too negative there mate: this week was a major improvement from last week when the 4 best loosies on the park were all Aussies. This time it was only the 3 best, because Hooper missed QT really badly for the try.
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I'd Take Nareki for All Blacks XV. for the sale reason that on his day hes world class, could easily were it not for injuries been an all black. and were we to have an injury crisis in the rugby world cup year, he's a stable hand with a high workrate and x factor.
Would love to see Fakatava in the mix but we may not see it. Haig probably competing with Howden, while Will Stodart a Smoky for the tour.
In my mind real concern is hooker, and I think moving on from BM is the right move. Bell for now - but young Jack Taylor could be one to watch.
