All Blacks 2025
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@Jet said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
South Africas huge population and player pool is now often cited as one of their advantages over us.
Our pool is much smaller yes, but we dont help ourselves by deifying 30 lads and giving nobody else a chance.
Raises a good question though...
Despite having so much more fresh and upcoming talent to pick from, South Africa's TRC squad included 23 players who were 30 years of age or older.
New Zealand's included seven.
Why are South Africa currently getting so much more out of their older players?
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
South Africas huge population and player pool is now often cited as one of their advantages over us.
Our pool is much smaller yes, but we dont help ourselves by deifying 30 lads and giving nobody else a chance.
Raises a good question though...
Despite having so much more fresh and upcoming talent to pick from, South Africa's TRC squad included 23 players who were 30 years of age or older.
New Zealand's included seven.
Why are South Africa currently getting so much more out of their older players?
They’re only selecting older players who are performing and get rid of them if they aren’t? Robertson is selecting older players because they played well almost a decade ago.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
South Africas huge population and player pool is now often cited as one of their advantages over us.
Our pool is much smaller yes, but we dont help ourselves by deifying 30 lads and giving nobody else a chance.
Raises a good question though...
Despite having so much more fresh and upcoming talent to pick from, South Africa's TRC squad included 23 players who were 30 years of age or older.
New Zealand's included seven.
Why are South Africa currently getting so much more out of their older players?
This might not answer your question specifically but I think it's because when Rassie selects a player he does so with intent. Intent to play them. Intent to play them in key moments in key situations, when the game is on the line. He doesn't waste selections on players who he wants to hold tackle bags.
In contrast Razor will select a player like Love with no intent to play him and do the same with an older player like Jacobson or ALB.
Rassie is also not afraid in the least to drop a player or rotate a player out of the team. There really are no incumbents in the team. The jersey is up for grabs at every game and I feel like he is able to get more out of his players because of that.
This might be an oversimplification of the situation (and it probably is) but I think that is the approximate reason why Rassie gets more from his players. Or if he doesn't then he shuffles that player to the bottom of the deck and gives someone else a crack.
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
In contrast Razor will select a player like Love with no intent to play him and do the same with an older player like Jacobson or ALB.
Then brings up how many players have debuted while he’s been coach in the press conference and tries to claim two minutes off the bench playing out of position when the player is only there because the players he wanted to pick are injured means he’s not being conservative with his selections.
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@restofit said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Papali'i & Darry should be there over Finau & Lord... but we don't pick Blues with this coaching setup.
Monstered the Chiefs in the 1/4s missing 2 abs and took Crusaders to 86 mins in the Semi.
Razor must think Cotter is a coaching demi-god considering their clinical performances in the playoffs 2024 & 2025 with barely any test quality players!
Well, if we picked those two guys, there would be 7 Blues in the squad and 8 Crusaders.
We won the competition and you guys lost nine games.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@restofit said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Papali'i & Darry should be there over Finau & Lord... but we don't pick Blues with this coaching setup.
Monstered the Chiefs in the 1/4s missing 2 abs and took Crusaders to 86 mins in the Semi.
Razor must think Cotter is a coaching demi-god considering their clinical performances in the playoffs 2024 & 2025 with barely any test quality players!
Well, if we picked those two guys, there would be 7 Blues in the squad and 8 Crusaders.
We won the competition and you guys lost nine games.
Its not about Blues vs Crusaders. There should be more of both. There's too many Chiefs and Canes.
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The referees for the tour games:
Ireland v New Zealand - Pierre Brousset (FFR)
Scotland v New Zealand - Nic Berry (RA)
England v New Zealand - Andrea Piardi (FIR)
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)Barbarians v All Blacks XV - Nic Berry (RA)
England A v All Blacks XV - TBA (RFU appointment)
Uruguay v All Blacks XV - TBA (FFR appointment) -
@pakman said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Midfield - more question marks even with the QT performance against the Aussies. There may be a temptation to rotate a bit. Jordie still our best midfielder but the way they are using him to drop back defensively was interesting to say the least.
Ireland and Scotland attack from the midfield quite differently to Aussie so it’s going to be interesting to see if they go with QT or Proctor.It's kind of a strange set of midfielders - even though it's not surprising.
On current rankings:
Second five: Jordie, Tupaea, ALB
Centre: Tupaea, Proctor, Ioane, ALB
I don't see Big Leicester starting there, unless maybe vs Wales - quite possible he plays wing or on the bench, though. I'd have grouped him with the wings.
If Jordie gets injured, I wonder whether they go Tupaea/Proctor or ALB/Tupaea?
It would be QT12/ALB13.
I'd much prefer QT12/Rieko12
Edit: QT12/Rieko13
@voodoo said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Midfield - more question marks even with the QT performance against the Aussies. There may be a temptation to rotate a bit. Jordie still our best midfielder but the way they are using him to drop back defensively was interesting to say the least.
Ireland and Scotland attack from the midfield quite differently to Aussie so it’s going to be interesting to see if they go with QT or Proctor.It's kind of a strange set of midfielders - even though it's not surprising.
On current rankings:
Second five: Jordie, Tupaea, ALB
Centre: Tupaea, Proctor, Ioane, ALB
I don't see Big Leicester starting there, unless maybe vs Wales - quite possible he plays wing or on the bench, though. I'd have grouped him with the wings.
If Jordie gets injured, I wonder whether they go Tupaea/Proctor or ALB/Tupaea?
It would be QT12/ALB13.
I'd much prefer QT12/Rieko12
Whilst I love the idea of two second fives gang tackling anyone who runs down the 12 channel that really leaves a gaping hole at 13.
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The referees for the tour games:
Ireland v New Zealand - Pierre Brousset (FFR)
Scotland v New Zealand - Nic Berry (RA)
England v New Zealand - Andrea Piardi (FIR)
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)Barbarians v All Blacks XV - Nic Berry (RA)
England A v All Blacks XV - TBA (RFU appointment)
Uruguay v All Blacks XV - TBA (FFR appointment)@Bovidae said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The referees for the tour games:
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)
I hope the Welsh don't try any funny business again if the Scottish referee can't keep up with play after a fast breakaway...
They have form. Bob Deans scored.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The referees for the tour games:
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)
I hope the Welsh don't try any funny business again if the Scottish referee can't keep up with play after a fast breakaway...
They have form. Bob Deans scored.
@sparky said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The referees for the tour games:
Wales v New Zealand - Hollie Davidson (SRU)
I hope the Welsh don't try any funny business again if the Scottish referee can't keep up with play after a fast breakaway...
They have form. Bob Deans scored.
Haha!
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't actually understand why Paps would be in the XV. He's a known quantity. If they don't think he's AB level for the EOYT the only thing useful for the XV I imagine would be leadership for others. But that would be unfair on him.
Dunno.
Maybe he might want to turn up, play like a man possessed , and force himself into the equation for next year?
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't actually understand why Paps would be in the XV. He's a known quantity. If they don't think he's AB level for the EOYT the only thing useful for the XV I imagine would be leadership for others. But that would be unfair on him.
Dunno.
Maybe he might want to turn up, play like a man possessed , and force himself into the equation for next year?
By moving to Christchurch?
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@restofit said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Papali'i & Darry should be there over Finau & Lord... but we don't pick Blues with this coaching setup.
Monstered the Chiefs in the 1/4s missing 2 abs and took Crusaders to 86 mins in the Semi.
Razor must think Cotter is a coaching demi-god considering their clinical performances in the playoffs 2024 & 2025 with barely any test quality players!
Well, if we picked those two guys, there would be 7 Blues in the squad and 8 Crusaders.
We won the competition and you guys lost nine games.
Its not about Blues vs Crusaders. There should be more of both. There's too many Chiefs and Canes.
@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@restofit said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Papali'i & Darry should be there over Finau & Lord... but we don't pick Blues with this coaching setup.
Monstered the Chiefs in the 1/4s missing 2 abs and took Crusaders to 86 mins in the Semi.
Razor must think Cotter is a coaching demi-god considering their clinical performances in the playoffs 2024 & 2025 with barely any test quality players!
Well, if we picked those two guys, there would be 7 Blues in the squad and 8 Crusaders.
We won the competition and you guys lost nine games.
Its not about Blues vs Crusaders. There should be more of both. There's too many Chiefs and Canes.
There's always too many Canes and Chiefs.
But, if the Fern majority got their way, who gets dropped?
Beauden, Christie, ALB, Sevu, Kirifi and Finau.
For something like: Jacombe, Pledger, Ennor, Tangitau, Papali'i, Flanders
There's less Blues and the same number of Crusaders.
I'd prefer the frst group of players - mainly because Beaudy is a significantly better option than Jacombe at present. Pledger looks like he'll be a much better player than Christie in due course, but he's really just broken out in NPC. Ennor, meh. Tangitau, apparently not. Paps - yes for me, but Ardie will start. Flanders - haven't watched him to see if he can sit convincingly in the stand with Luke Jacobson.
My real point is - many of you Blues guys seem to see a massive conspiracy, where there's really just a few line calls gone against you.
Actually, Lord vs Darry could be added to the above set to bring you to parity, but for me that one is a coin toss, where they can't pick both - and if Vaa'i were fit they'd pick neither.
Edit: And a minute later they're both in - but, I'd rather have Patrick.
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@Chris said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Sam Darry in to AB squad, Patrick Tuipulotu out with shoulder injury needing surgery.
Big loss that. His impact as the bench lock is hard to replace.
Obviously not gonna happen, but would SB go well in that role?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't actually understand why Paps would be in the XV. He's a known quantity. If they don't think he's AB level for the EOYT the only thing useful for the XV I imagine would be leadership for others. But that would be unfair on him.
Dunno.
Maybe he might want to turn up, play like a man possessed , and force himself into the equation for next year?
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't actually understand why Paps would be in the XV. He's a known quantity. If they don't think he's AB level for the EOYT the only thing useful for the XV I imagine would be leadership for others. But that would be unfair on him.
Dunno.
Maybe he might want to turn up, play like a man possessed , and force himself into the equation for next year?
The last "man possessed" got dropped mate!
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@Chris said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Sam Darry in to AB squad, Patrick Tuipulotu out with shoulder injury needing surgery.
Big loss that. His impact as the bench lock is hard to replace.
Obviously not gonna happen, but would SB go well in that role?
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Sam Darry in to AB squad, Patrick Tuipulotu out with shoulder injury needing surgery.
Big loss that. His impact as the bench lock is hard to replace.
Obviously not gonna happen, but would SB go well in that role?
He will be missed no real lock in that squad that can impact as well off the bench.SB is the sort of player who could come off the bench but you are right it is not going to happen.
Patricks injury will keep him out for a while he may miss the start of SR. -
Another one who could fit the mould of the bench lockis Josh Beehre. Again, he's not getting picked, but he has the ability to make a difference as a sub.
I just don't see the point in Josh Lord coming off the bench, even Darry, who has improved in physical exchanges over the last year or 2, but again, they're more starters than finishers.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't actually understand why Paps would be in the XV. He's a known quantity. If they don't think he's AB level for the EOYT the only thing useful for the XV I imagine would be leadership for others. But that would be unfair on him.
Dunno.
Maybe he might want to turn up, play like a man possessed , and force himself into the equation for next year?
The last "man possessed" got dropped mate!
@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't actually understand why Paps would be in the XV. He's a known quantity. If they don't think he's AB level for the EOYT the only thing useful for the XV I imagine would be leadership for others. But that would be unfair on him.
Dunno.
Maybe he might want to turn up, play like a man possessed , and force himself into the equation for next year?
The last "man possessed" got dropped mate!
That one's a bit too subtle for me - who are you thinking?
But, the point is - if you don't get picked - a bit of disappointment is fine, but then surely you pick yourself up and try even harder? Or at least, you don't sit at home bewailing that you didn't get picked and thinking you're too great to play for the ABs XV or going through the motions in the NPC.
You would be vindicating the coaching decision.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The only place you could argue there is possibly an opening is 10, and nobody has put anything up yet to suggest they could bolt in.
No one has been given a run, except BB and DMac.
And even then DMac has only played when BB is injured. So he doesn't really think beyond BB which is nuts when you consider just how uneven his play is.
DMac got a good run at the start of last year. He'd previously had about five intermittent starts - now he's been developed into a credible option.
The very clear plan is Waiting on Rich-Mo. He was clearly our best 10 when he departed and that's surely been reinforced in his absence. Seems to still be killing it in Japan, so hopefully he'll come back still very good.
He'd have to fall away massively not to be better than the best of the youngsters.
Can't see us going into 2027 in a worse five-eighth depth position than 2011 (Carter, Slade, Cruden, Beaver) - unless Richie gets broken or is a total bust.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The only place you could argue there is possibly an opening is 10, and nobody has put anything up yet to suggest they could bolt in.
No one has been given a run, except BB and DMac.
And even then DMac has only played when BB is injured. So he doesn't really think beyond BB which is nuts when you consider just how uneven his play is.
DMac got a good run at the start of last year. He'd previously had about five intermittent starts - now he's been developed into a credible option.
The very clear plan is Waiting on Rich-Mo. He was clearly our best 10 when he departed and that's surely been reinforced in his absence. Seems to still be killing it in Japan, so hopefully he'll come back still very good.
He'd have to fall away massively not to be better than the best of the youngsters.
Can't see us going into 2027 in a worse five-eighth depth position than 2011 (Carter, Slade, Cruden, Beaver) - unless Richie gets broken or is a total bust.
Blues won the title with Plummer, went worse the following year with Barrett. McKenzie has been the best 10 in Super for two years - that's where he has been developed, not by Robertson. He did get a decent run at the start of last year, but don't forget BB didn't even play super rugby that year. Then he was jettisoned - apparently because we were going to shit in the last 20 minutes, which is hardly the starting 10s fault.
This year it has been all Barrett, and we've looked better as soon as McKenzie steps in there - as we did in 2024. Beauden is past it, and will be more past it by the next WC - playing him to bide time for Mo'unga does my head in. Play the best Super 10 who still has something to offer in McKenzie, give Love meaningful time off the bench at either 15 or 10.
I was 100% Mo'unga over Barrett in the past, and no doubt would still be, assuming he is still playing reasonably. But he's not playing in relevant comps, he ditched the ABs for money, and now he wants to come back for one year for his ego - and he's no Dan Carter. He might be the best 10 when he comes back (my guess: he'll definitely be better than BB, probably not McKenzie and hard to judge e.g. Love/Jacomb as the trajectory is so different) - but, why on earth would we assume that now rather than trying to develop an alternative solution? If Mo'unga breaks his leg and Barrett has been playing every game at 10, our WC campaign is dead in the water.
I think you called the selection arguments quiblbing or tinkering around the edges or something - and it kinda is, but it's also very much not when the key playmaker selection is so wrong.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't actually understand why Paps would be in the XV. He's a known quantity. If they don't think he's AB level for the EOYT the only thing useful for the XV I imagine would be leadership for others. But that would be unfair on him.
Dunno.
Maybe he might want to turn up, play like a man possessed , and force himself into the equation for next year?
The last "man possessed" got dropped mate!
That one's a bit too subtle for me - who are you thinking?
But, the point is - if you don't get picked - a bit of disappointment is fine, but then surely you pick yourself up and try even harder? Or at least, you don't sit at home bewailing that you didn't get picked and thinking you're too great to play for the ABs XV or going through the motions in the NPC.
You would be vindicating the coaching decision.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't actually understand why Paps would be in the XV. He's a known quantity. If they don't think he's AB level for the EOYT the only thing useful for the XV I imagine would be leadership for others. But that would be unfair on him.
Dunno.
Maybe he might want to turn up, play like a man possessed , and force himself into the equation for next year?
The last "man possessed" got dropped mate!
That one's a bit too subtle for me - who are you thinking?
But, the point is - if you don't get picked - a bit of disappointment is fine, but then surely you pick yourself up and try even harder? Or at least, you don't sit at home bewailing that you didn't get picked and thinking you're too great to play for the ABs XV or going through the motions in the NPC.
You would be vindicating the coaching decision.
Robertson used the phrase to describe Blackadder last year vs SA (agree with your point of course).
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't actually understand why Paps would be in the XV. He's a known quantity. If they don't think he's AB level for the EOYT the only thing useful for the XV I imagine would be leadership for others. But that would be unfair on him.
Dunno.
Maybe he might want to turn up, play like a man possessed , and force himself into the equation for next year?
By moving to Christchurch?
@antipodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't actually understand why Paps would be in the XV. He's a known quantity. If they don't think he's AB level for the EOYT the only thing useful for the XV I imagine would be leadership for others. But that would be unfair on him.
Dunno.
Maybe he might want to turn up, play like a man possessed , and force himself into the equation for next year?
By moving to Christchurch?
You're behind the times, man.
If you want to get picked, head to Hamilton - it's just a hop, skip and jump for Paps!
