All Blacks 2025
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I watched the ARP for the first time in a while, where they discussed possible replacements for Holland. It's all very well Parsons and Hall talking about some of the overseas options (Goodman, Evans, O'Gara, etc), but they failed to mention it would take a lot of money for them to leave their current NH role. Coaches are no different to players when it comes to $$. For those that haven't watched it, Goodman is a guest.
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I watched the ARP for the first time in a while, where they discussed possible replacements for Holland. It's all very well Parsons and Hall talking about some of the overseas options (Goodman, Evans, O'Gara, etc), but they failed to mention it would take a lot of money for them to leave their current NH role. Coaches are no different to players when it comes to $$. For those that haven't watched it, Goodman is a guest.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
I watched the ARP for the first time in a while, where they discussed possible replacements for Holland. It's all very well Parsons and Hall talking about some of the overseas options (Goodman, Evans, O'Gara, etc), but they failed to mention it would take a lot of money for them to leave their current NH role. Coaches are no different to players when it comes to $$. For those that haven't watched it, Goodman is a guest.
Well really Bovidae, they were just throwing out names. not saying who should get job, or talking pay etc. They didn't even look who was interested etc either just who could be looked at.
I had thought same thing as you when they listed them, but then thought well just you would think these names could possibly get thrown around. I actually enjoyed Goodman, and seems pretty calm fella, and doesn't seem to think he is ready for a head coaching job anywhere as yet, which seems to suggest a man who knows his abilties/experience etc. -
@ShaquilleOatmeal That's not really what I'm arguing about though - I'm arguing that prior international experience isn't the be-all and end-all and pointing out a host of guys with loads of prior international experience who haven't been able arrest slides or are doing no better than Razor.
And there's no shortage of people prepared to say that things would be better under Joe or Jamie, but their records don't get the same scrutiny at Razor's (or Fozzie's).
It's also fairly invalid to compare Hansen's and Henry's records to the current coaches, because there's simply no doubt that most international teams have got significantly better. You don't get a free pass to experiment vs Japan, Fiji, Italy. You blink and they'll tip you over.
e,g, Eddie - who I thought was a busted flush after his latest RWC exploits - gave Joe a very uncomfortable 10 minutes at the end at the weekend. We would not have been happy if that had been an AB B team.
But, yes - there's no doubt we'ré not travelling quite how anyone should be happy with. I've said this on a number of occasions - but, if we can bank 3/4 on the EOYT I think NZR will be quietly happy with the season. I'm hopeful we'll do better than that, but concerned about the injuries in the tight five. We can't afford any more.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal That's not really what I'm arguing about though - I'm arguing that prior international experience isn't the be-all and end-all and pointing out a host of guys with loads of prior international experience who haven't been able arrest slides or are doing no better than Razor.
It's not everything, but funnily enough Sam Whitelock said in his book that he thought he thought Plumtree and Mooar weren't experienced enough at test level to be assistant coaches.
Mind you he a real believer it a massive step up to test rugby. -
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Interesting that Harry Plummer has been named 10 in the Top14 XV team of the month!
Legend! It'll be sad not seeing him in Blue next season.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Wanting to get rid of Foster doesn't mean one becomes a Razor fanatic.
Not what I said.
The same changes in the global & NZ rugby environment impacted both coaches but too many unthinking morons told us with messianic fervour that was irrelevant - all ABs problems and losses were down to Foster and once Coach Jesus took over the sun would shine again.
Brain-dead thinking, of course, but at least the argument has moved on. It's not the head coach that's the problem now - it's the assistants....
Can you make an argument without insulting people?
I said: Wanting to get rid of Foster doesn't mean one becomes a Razor fanatic.
You said: all ABs problems and losses were down to Foster and once Coach Jesus took over the sun would shine again.Now you are saying "It's not the head coach that's the problem now - it's the assistants..." when many posts are saying it is both but they're very unlikely to fire Razor.
Twisty, twisty,
@nostrildamus The decline started with Foster’s appointment in 2019. We needed change after the 2019 semifinal as it was obvious from 2017-2019 that other teams had caught up. Keeping the status quo post-2019 was where this mess started. Foster’s losses made the public and media want change and pressure was building on NZR with each loss to do something. Robertson was the obvious and available choice due to his Super Rugby success. If Foster had a decent record, no one would be asking for Robertson. People have forgotten that under Foster we lost 6 out of 8 tests in 2021 and 2022, dropped to our lowest ranking (5th), lost a home series, 33% winning rate against top 5 teams, didn’t have a winning record against any of the top 5 teams. Foster’s incompetence created the rush to appoint Robertson. Robertson is not the saviour everyone thought he was. 2019 is where this mess started and it’s still continuing to this day. The Foster vs Robertson rivalry has been highly destructive to the All Blacks brand and legacy.
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We need to protect Roigard at all costs.
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We need to protect Roigard at all costs.
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@Canes4life Well he is a key player for sure, but some of this stuff is a bit over the top. He wasn't the best 9 on the field in his last game, despite the try.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life Well he is a key player for sure, but some of this stuff is a bit over the top. He wasn't the best 9 on the field in his last game, despite the try.
Yeah, I felt it was odd that Roigard waited until the last 20 mins to run the ball. Pretty much all he did before that was pass, pass, pass.
I think he just needs to demand the ball and back himself to get the team moving forward more.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life Well he is a key player for sure, but some of this stuff is a bit over the top. He wasn't the best 9 on the field in his last game, despite the try.
Yeah, I felt it was odd that Roigard waited until the last 20 mins to run the ball. Pretty much all he did before that was pass, pass, pass.
I think he just needs to demand the ball and back himself to get the team moving forward more.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life Well he is a key player for sure, but some of this stuff is a bit over the top. He wasn't the best 9 on the field in his last game, despite the try.
Yeah, I felt it was odd that Roigard waited until the last 20 mins to run the ball. Pretty much all he did before that was pass, pass, pass.
I think he just needs to demand the ball and back himself to get the team moving forward more.
It was interesting eh. In general he does not seem at all shy about having a crack, so it was a bit strange to see him not have a go at all until so late.
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We need to protect Roigard at all costs.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
We need to protect Roigard at all costs.
Choo Choo.
Still one or two seats left on the Cam Wagon for any doubters.
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We need to protect Roigard at all costs.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
We need to protect Roigard at all costs.
I agree but based on the last game there is the potential they will over play him.
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Here are some of the loose forward stats for the AB season. I don't have any ruck stats which is obviously a big part of the puzzle. Probably shouldn't have included Papali'i since he only played 14 minutes. His stats are extrapolated. Tupou Vaa'i and Finau also played at lock.
Carries Per 80 Minutes
22.86 Dalton Papali'i
15.21 Wallace Sititi
13.56 Samipeni Finau
12.48 Ardie Savea
11.06 Christian Lio Willie
10.0 Peter Lakai
9.03 Du'Plessis Kirifi
5.5 Simon Parker
5.49 Tupou Vaa'iTackles Per 80 Minutes
14.66 Simon Parker
14.31 Christian Lio Willie
13.55 Du'Plessis Kirifi
12.88 Samipeni Finau
12.5 Peter Lakai
11.56 Wallace Sititi
11.37 Ardie Savea
10.83 Tupou Vaa'i
5.71 Dalton Papali'iCarries + Tackles Per 80 Minutes
28.57 Dalton Papali'i
26.77 Wallace Sititi
26.44 Samipeni Finau
25.37 Christian Lio Willie
23.85 Ardie Savea
22.58 Du'Plessis Kirifi
22.5 Peter Lakai
20.15 Simon Parker
16.32 Tupou Vaa'iTotal Impact Plays Per 80 Minutes
( Tries + Try Assists + Clean Breaks + Offloads + Defenders Beaten + Turnovers Won + Dominant Tackles )
11.42 Dalton Papali'i
7.15 Ardie Savea
7 Wallace Sititi
4.06 Samipeni Finau
3.9 Christian Lio Willie
3.55 Du'Plessis Kirifi
3.4 Tupou Vaa'i
2.85 Simon Parker
2.5 Peter Lakai -
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
We need to protect Roigard at all costs.
I agree but based on the last game there is the potential they will over play him.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
We need to protect Roigard at all costs.
I agree but based on the last game there is the potential they will over play him.
Getting Pledger in the squad next year will help.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
We need to protect Roigard at all costs.
I agree but based on the last game there is the potential they will over play him.
Getting Pledger in the squad next year will help.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
We need to protect Roigard at all costs.
I agree but based on the last game there is the potential they will over play him.
Getting Pledger in the squad next year will help.
There will be competition between Ratima, Hotham, Preston and Pledger
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
We need to protect Roigard at all costs.
I agree but based on the last game there is the potential they will over play him.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
We need to protect Roigard at all costs.
I agree but based on the last game there is the potential they will over play him.
He'll be fine for this season. He hasn't exactly played every test this season missing both Argie tests, both Bok tests and the third French test
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life Well he is a key player for sure, but some of this stuff is a bit over the top. He wasn't the best 9 on the field in his last game, despite the try.
Yeah, I felt it was odd that Roigard waited until the last 20 mins to run the ball. Pretty much all he did before that was pass, pass, pass.
I think he just needs to demand the ball and back himself to get the team moving forward more.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life Well he is a key player for sure, but some of this stuff is a bit over the top. He wasn't the best 9 on the field in his last game, despite the try.
Yeah, I felt it was odd that Roigard waited until the last 20 mins to run the ball. Pretty much all he did before that was pass, pass, pass.
I think he just needs to demand the ball and back himself to get the team moving forward more.
Am I misremembering also that he was pretty fucking sloppy to start with? I'm sure I recall passes going all over the show.
