Exodus
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It would be fascinating to find out what the average player is getting, because I bet that the guys getting going aren’t on that. Some of the guys with media connections may be able to fill in the gaps, for if you are on a wider training contract and how that fits with NPC.
The fact that we are guessing while the NRL seems relatively clear says something though…
It would be fascinating to find out what the average player is getting, because I bet that the guys getting going aren’t on that. Some of the guys with media connections may be able to fill in the gaps, for if you are on a wider training contract and how that fits with NPC.
The fact that we are guessing while the NRL seems relatively clear says something though…
But neither are these young guys going to league, they're not going straight into the Top 30, they're going into age grade or reserve grade so we're not really clear on them at that stage either.
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For the technically challenged https://archive.li/OZKhw
@bayimports said in Exodus:
For the technically challenged https://archive.li/OZKhw
Cheers, don't know why it wasn't working for me. Likely user error. :face_with_tears_of_joy:
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The money will tell the story in the end.
NRL players are starting at 140k; a SR average would be about 135k.
ABs would be on a lot more than that; some a lot, lot more.The ABs will always be mega; but the professional union game in NZ will (is) slowly get hollowed out by pro league.
It already has been in Aus.It's to some extent fascinating that this is happening thirty years after rugby went pro because you would assume that would have given rugby a degree of insulation from league it did not have during the amateur era when people like Frano Botica could be signed by Wigan whilst on tour with the ABs.
I think the reverse has happened in England where league seems like it's in decline and rugby is in a stronger position in relative terms. The Ellery Hanley and Martin Offiah equivalents are more likely to be playing rugby these days, it would seem.
I do find it fascinating.
Initially it did insulate rugby union a little when they went pro; even had some players going the other way which could not have happened in the amateur era.
But a lot has changed in the last 30 years.In this part of the world rugby union has maintained its edge over rugby league from an international aspect, but in terms of the domestic pro game, rugby union has been blown out of the water in Australia.
And I think the pressure is going to build in the next 10 to 20 years on domestic pro rugby union in NZ.If you'd told me 30 years ago that three Nelson College potentials were going over to league . . . yeah . . . nah.
And the reverse has happened in England, the other rugby league stronghold.
I think it was a critical mass type thing.
While rugby league had dominance over union in Australia, that was not the case in England.
While being amateur, rugby union was still the dominant rugby code in England.Most people dont realise how much trouble English rugby league is in rn.
They are a basket case, kinda like Australian rugby union.
Complete opposite to what has happened in Aus. -
So after reading it, it's just a typical Herald league v rugby article
The whole article is predicated on players from the same school. We all know there's a problem in Ta$man and it's all @Chris-B's fault.
It constantly mentions the NRL contract when the next paragraph references guys going in on lower grade contracts.
It also mentions Leka as to how the pathway is so good because he's had contract increases, most young players don't have his sort of meteoric rise.
As it stands, the professional rugby league options available to NZ’s best and brightest young players far outweigh the equivalent in rugby union. There are six Super Rugby franchises based in NZ. Playing anywhere else makes them ineligible for the All Blacks and the bumper payday that comes with the black jersey.
By comparison, there are 17 NRL clubs. For now.This is odd, as playing NRL makes them ineligible for the All Blacks too, and if they're good enough they can make a bumper payday in the NH too. (Also, my technical brain seems to be getting worse, now I can't remember how to do quotes.)
Perkins will start in the SG Ball competition (under-19s) while Inch and Saumaki will get their first taste in Jersey Flegg (under-21s). The next step from there is the New South Wales Cup (reserve grade) before becoming fully-fledged first-grade players.
Is this really that much different than U20s, NPC and then Super?
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Watched an interview a few weeks ago.
Andrew Seibold.
He was commenting on a trip to Christchurch. Not sure why he was there; but we can easily guess.
He thought he would be completely anonymous.
But he was blown away by people recognising him in the street, and wanting to have a chat.
Who'd of thought, Christchurch, rugby league heartland . . . well . . . maybe not yet. -
Well worth a read.
Game is supposedly more interesting to younger players (ball in play etc.), pays more, and has an easier to understand pathway. According to the article, Super salaries have not grown since the early 2000s, while if you are in the top 30 contracted players for NRL you start at $140K AUD.
Well worth a read.
Interesting article (luckily, I was able to push through after reading “teenage rugby prodigy Tom Perkins” in the very first sentence). The thing that struck me the most – I don’t know nearly enough about the financial part of the game to get into that – was the way Perkins was described as a player, both by himself and by others.
“I think it fits my skill set a lot ... better. [...] A lot more running with the ball, a lot more aerial work, which I think fits my game a lot better as well.” (Perkins) “I think he’s more athletic than Kai Pearce-Paul, to be fair. He’s well put together. He moves well, beautiful balance.” (Peter O’Sullivan, Newcastle Knights scout)
“More athletic than Kai Pearce-Paul” is a genuinely crazy statement. One of the first things you notice when watching Perkins is that his footwork isn’t really explosive enough, especially when moving laterally. To me, that was a sign he would eventually become more of an undersized lock at the next level or, at best, a tight-playing blindside (where he would need to improve his physicality).
I’m sure O’Sullivan doesn’t himself believe what he said there but it’s easy to see how statements like that can get into a young player’s head. But, for those young players to succeed, I think they need to know and understand their own game, their own strengths and weaknesses. And I’m not sure that is the case for Perkins, at least not on the basis of this article.
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Well worth a read.
Interesting article (luckily, I was able to push through after reading “teenage rugby prodigy Tom Perkins” in the very first sentence). The thing that struck me the most – I don’t know nearly enough about the financial part of the game to get into that – was the way Perkins was described as a player, both by himself and by others.
“I think it fits my skill set a lot ... better. [...] A lot more running with the ball, a lot more aerial work, which I think fits my game a lot better as well.” (Perkins) “I think he’s more athletic than Kai Pearce-Paul, to be fair. He’s well put together. He moves well, beautiful balance.” (Peter O’Sullivan, Newcastle Knights scout)
“More athletic than Kai Pearce-Paul” is a genuinely crazy statement. One of the first things you notice when watching Perkins is that his footwork isn’t really explosive enough, especially when moving laterally. To me, that was a sign he would eventually become more of an undersized lock at the next level or, at best, a tight-playing blindside (where he would need to improve his physicality).
I’m sure O’Sullivan doesn’t himself believe what he said there but it’s easy to see how statements like that can get into a young player’s head. But, for those young players to succeed, I think they need to know and understand their own game, their own strengths and weaknesses. And I’m not sure that is the case for Perkins, at least not on the basis of this article.
@Mauss Kai Pearce-Paul was hyped to be the English SBW by media and Super League fans and seeing a few of his games over the last few years, I'm yet to see the hype around him.
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Watched an interview a few weeks ago.
Andrew Seibold.
He was commenting on a trip to Christchurch. Not sure why he was there; but we can easily guess.
He thought he would be completely anonymous.
But he was blown away by people recognising him in the street, and wanting to have a chat.
Who'd of thought, Christchurch, rugby league heartland . . . well . . . maybe not yet.@mohikamo A few Manly players including Reuben Garrick and Luke Brooks trained with the Crusaders at the start of the year.
Believe Seibold, Michael Ennis and Jim Dymock were also in Christchurch then.
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I do find it fascinating.
Initially it did insulate rugby union a little when they went pro; even had some players going the other way which could not have happened in the amateur era.
But a lot has changed in the last 30 years.In this part of the world rugby union has maintained its edge over rugby league from an international aspect, but in terms of the domestic pro game, rugby union has been blown out of the water in Australia.
And I think the pressure is going to build in the next 10 to 20 years on domestic pro rugby union in NZ.If you'd told me 30 years ago that three Nelson College potentials were going over to league . . . yeah . . . nah.
And the reverse has happened in England, the other rugby league stronghold.
I think it was a critical mass type thing.
While rugby league had dominance over union in Australia, that was not the case in England.
While being amateur, rugby union was still the dominant rugby code in England.Most people dont realise how much trouble English rugby league is in rn.
They are a basket case, kinda like Australian rugby union.
Complete opposite to what has happened in Aus.I do find it fascinating.
Initially it did insulate rugby union a little when they went pro; even had some players going the other way which could not have happened in the amateur era.
But a lot has changed in the last 30 years.In this part of the world rugby union has maintained its edge over rugby league from an international aspect, but in terms of the domestic pro game, rugby union has been blown out of the water in Australia.
And I think the pressure is going to build in the next 10 to 20 years on domestic pro rugby union in NZ.I wonder if in 30 years time or a few decades down the line at least you will have two landing spots for the talent -
a). NRL/Australia or
b). Top 14/France.It want happen overnight but like how waves erode rock over time the economics will just make it so. All Blacks will make the big bucks in France and those who choose league will make their money in one of two NZ NRL franchises or any of the rest.
I think Sonny Bill Williams career is to an extent an insight into the direction of travel.
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@gt12 I posted the links about 20 times, and still every boomer retard would reply "paywall". Often when the archive link was in the same post ...
@gt12 I posted the links about 20 times, and still every boomer retard would reply "paywall". Often when the archive link was in the same post ...
Do you think you could give me some advice on how to get my VHS video player to work, Tim?
I think the cords might be plugged in the wrong holes!
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@gt12 I posted the links about 20 times, and still every boomer retard would reply "paywall". Often when the archive link was in the same post ...
Do you think you could give me some advice on how to get my VHS video player to work, Tim?
I think the cords might be plugged in the wrong holes!
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Watched an interview a few weeks ago.
Andrew Seibold.
He was commenting on a trip to Christchurch. Not sure why he was there; but we can easily guess.
He thought he would be completely anonymous.
But he was blown away by people recognising him in the street, and wanting to have a chat.
Who'd of thought, Christchurch, rugby league heartland . . . well . . . maybe not yet.Watched an interview a few weeks ago.
Andrew Seibold.
He was commenting on a trip to Christchurch. Not sure why he was there; but we can easily guess.
He thought he would be completely anonymous.
But he was blown away by people recognising him in the street, and wanting to have a chat.
Who'd of thought, Christchurch, rugby league heartland . . . well . . . maybe not yet.Rugby League has a massive following in Chch, always has. The grassroots may not be as strong as it has been in years gone by (where is strong grassroots these days), but the NRL in terms of popularity has gone from strength to strength.
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@Mauss Kai Pearce-Paul was hyped to be the English SBW by media and Super League fans and seeing a few of his games over the last few years, I'm yet to see the hype around him.
@MacDazzler said in Exodus:
@Mauss Kai Pearce-Paul was hyped to be the English SBW by media and Super League fans and seeing a few of his games over the last few years, I'm yet to see the hype around him.
correct which is also why its not hard to predict someone could be more athletic than him. KPP is tall, doesn't really offer footwork, runs ok lines but has long arms allowing for a good offload. If Perkins can play 80 mins at a good work rate, he's "athletic"
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So after reading it, it's just a typical Herald league v rugby article
The whole article is predicated on players from the same school. We all know there's a problem in Ta$man and it's all @Chris-B's fault.
It constantly mentions the NRL contract when the next paragraph references guys going in on lower grade contracts.
It also mentions Leka as to how the pathway is so good because he's had contract increases, most young players don't have his sort of meteoric rise.
As it stands, the professional rugby league options available to NZ’s best and brightest young players far outweigh the equivalent in rugby union. There are six Super Rugby franchises based in NZ. Playing anywhere else makes them ineligible for the All Blacks and the bumper payday that comes with the black jersey.
By comparison, there are 17 NRL clubs. For now.This is odd, as playing NRL makes them ineligible for the All Blacks too, and if they're good enough they can make a bumper payday in the NH too. (Also, my technical brain seems to be getting worse, now I can't remember how to do quotes.)
Perkins will start in the SG Ball competition (under-19s) while Inch and Saumaki will get their first taste in Jersey Flegg (under-21s). The next step from there is the New South Wales Cup (reserve grade) before becoming fully-fledged first-grade players.
Is this really that much different than U20s, NPC and then Super?
As it stands, the professional rugby league options available to NZ’s best and brightest young players far outweigh the equivalent in rugby union. There are six Super Rugby franchises based in NZ. Playing anywhere else makes them ineligible for the All Blacks and the bumper payday that comes with the black jersey.
By comparison, there are 17 NRL clubs. For now.This is odd, as playing NRL makes them ineligible for the All Blacks too, and if they're good enough they can make a bumper payday in the NH too. (Also, my technical brain seems to be getting worse, now I can't remember how to do quotes.)
I think they're trying to say by removing the ABs for comparison purposes because if you go offshore you lose access to both, whether it be league or union. They then line up the NZ super clubs vs all NRL clubs for spots. What they didnt also say is also why a lot of young rugby talent also plays rugby elsewhere and not NZ for the same reasons they're making. Earn cash faster essentially.
I cant help feel though that there is more young talent players in first grade NRL (under 21) playing each week than in NZ Super first teams. (which is another comparison they're alluding to indirectly, excluding NPC ). I dont have facts for this but would be interesting to know, but would assume with more teams its seems likely.
And lastly my other thought would be if Australian rugby still had its appeal as to where it did in 2000, then this article doesn't happen.
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I do find it fascinating.
Initially it did insulate rugby union a little when they went pro; even had some players going the other way which could not have happened in the amateur era.
But a lot has changed in the last 30 years.In this part of the world rugby union has maintained its edge over rugby league from an international aspect, but in terms of the domestic pro game, rugby union has been blown out of the water in Australia.
And I think the pressure is going to build in the next 10 to 20 years on domestic pro rugby union in NZ.I wonder if in 30 years time or a few decades down the line at least you will have two landing spots for the talent -
a). NRL/Australia or
b). Top 14/France.It want happen overnight but like how waves erode rock over time the economics will just make it so. All Blacks will make the big bucks in France and those who choose league will make their money in one of two NZ NRL franchises or any of the rest.
I think Sonny Bill Williams career is to an extent an insight into the direction of travel.
@nonpartizan said in Exodus:
I wonder if in 30 years time or a few decades down the line at least you will have two landing spots for the talent -
a). NRL/Australia or
b). Top 14/France.This would be a disaster.
This would make me in favour of R360.
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@MacDazzler said in Exodus:
@Mauss Kai Pearce-Paul was hyped to be the English SBW by media and Super League fans and seeing a few of his games over the last few years, I'm yet to see the hype around him.
correct which is also why its not hard to predict someone could be more athletic than him. KPP is tall, doesn't really offer footwork, runs ok lines but has long arms allowing for a good offload. If Perkins can play 80 mins at a good work rate, he's "athletic"
@bayimports said in Exodus:
correct which is also why its not hard to predict someone could be more athletic than him. KPP is tall, doesn't really offer footwork, runs ok lines but has long arms allowing for a good offload. If Perkins can play 80 mins at a good work rate, he's "athletic"
But that’s not what O’Sullivan is saying, though. When talking about the athleticism of tall guys, what is referred to is things like movement, dexterity, balance, explosiveness, not work rate. It’s in regards to one of the typical “flaws” of a tall body: that you’re gangly, slow to turn and lack coordination. That’s what O’Sullivan is referring to when talking about Perkins’ athleticism: “He’s well put together. He moves well, beautiful balance.”
Kai-Pearce Paul might not be a great league player but I think it’s fair to say that, as an athlete, he’s very coordinated and balanced. He can accelerate off both feet and change direction quickly, he’s quick off the ground and he’s got good hand-eye coordination. I still think it’s quite a statement to say that “he’s more athletic than Kai Pearce-Paul”.
Just because I wanted to make sure that I wasn’t imagining things, I re-watched the second NZ Schools game against Australia U18, solely looking at the involvements of Perkins. He’s just not a very dynamic player: his movements into contact can be slow and awkward, both carrying and tackling, and he’s not particularly light on his feet. He was often targeted in the defensive line by Australian carriers, as they were able to consistently make big metres in his channel. It wasn't pretty.
Anyway, I’m going to leave it at that. I often follow dual-code players in their rugby league pathways so I’ll do the same with Perkins. Hopefully he can make it to the highest level and make me look, once again, like an idiot.
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@bayimports said in Exodus:
correct which is also why its not hard to predict someone could be more athletic than him. KPP is tall, doesn't really offer footwork, runs ok lines but has long arms allowing for a good offload. If Perkins can play 80 mins at a good work rate, he's "athletic"
But that’s not what O’Sullivan is saying, though. When talking about the athleticism of tall guys, what is referred to is things like movement, dexterity, balance, explosiveness, not work rate. It’s in regards to one of the typical “flaws” of a tall body: that you’re gangly, slow to turn and lack coordination. That’s what O’Sullivan is referring to when talking about Perkins’ athleticism: “He’s well put together. He moves well, beautiful balance.”
Kai-Pearce Paul might not be a great league player but I think it’s fair to say that, as an athlete, he’s very coordinated and balanced. He can accelerate off both feet and change direction quickly, he’s quick off the ground and he’s got good hand-eye coordination. I still think it’s quite a statement to say that “he’s more athletic than Kai Pearce-Paul”.
Just because I wanted to make sure that I wasn’t imagining things, I re-watched the second NZ Schools game against Australia U18, solely looking at the involvements of Perkins. He’s just not a very dynamic player: his movements into contact can be slow and awkward, both carrying and tackling, and he’s not particularly light on his feet. He was often targeted in the defensive line by Australian carriers, as they were able to consistently make big metres in his channel. It wasn't pretty.
Anyway, I’m going to leave it at that. I often follow dual-code players in their rugby league pathways so I’ll do the same with Perkins. Hopefully he can make it to the highest level and make me look, once again, like an idiot.
Hopefully he can make it to the highest level and make me look, once again, like an idiot.
been there done that
, this is the fern, we all have opinions that players make fools of us sometimes.. you might even join the rest of us mere mortals occasionally. Although your analysis will not see you matched often!I would suggest though after listening to a lot of league recruiters, Sullivan saw a few games even if not letting on (honesty is not always what they lead with), whether live or on video before making a decision, secondly its his role to talk a player up.
My point being, KPP is not a high bar to reach.. so even if he makes first grade (which he might not), he would not have to do much to better him.
Now watch KPP smash out big stats next year lol
