Red Cards & HIA
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@taniwharugby said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
I'm more concerned with the fact the TMO had all that time to look at it, made his call and it was deemed wrong.
This. There was a Yellow & Review so they must have been 100% sure. It didn't look a Red to me but the TMO and the Ref decided on a Red so that was that.
Complete fuck-up in an event designed to grow the game in the US.
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@gt12 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
There has to be a system that allows the game to flow with some penalty for the player, but doesn't ruin the event for fans.
I thought that was a Yellow with a Review.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@gt12 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
There has to be a system that allows the game to flow with some penalty for the player, but doesn't ruin the event for fans.
I thought that was a Yellow with a Review.
This could push World Rugby to adopting it. Realistically, that would be a nice start.
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@Dodge said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
lets extend that logic then, either they're all off or none off?
All off - early 2023 interpretations effectively - was massively unpopular as it punished an always high lethal clothes line to the face in the same way it punished an accidental, drop in height passive collision. Most of the unpopularity came from the SH from memory, particularly Aus.
None off - Always high, loads of time shot to the face which knocks a player out gets a yellow. No incentive not to tackle high, no attempt to deal with the concussion issue in rugby etc.
Personally I wouldn't like to see it, as rugby is a dynamic contact sport and an accident or nothing incident can spoil a game. I also think we have to try and deal with the concussion issue.
Therefore that doesn't feel realistic or desirable to me. Mitigation is crucial, clarity in decision making is crucial. Some disagreement is inevitable so we're stuck with it IMO
What about all yellow?
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@Dodge said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
lets extend that logic then, either they're all off or none off?
All off - early 2023 interpretations effectively - was massively unpopular as it punished an always high lethal clothes line to the face in the same way it punished an accidental, drop in height passive collision. Most of the unpopularity came from the SH from memory, particularly Aus.
None off - Always high, loads of time shot to the face which knocks a player out gets a yellow. No incentive not to tackle high, no attempt to deal with the concussion issue in rugby etc.
Personally I wouldn't like to see it, as rugby is a dynamic contact sport and an accident or nothing incident can spoil a game. I also think we have to try and deal with the concussion issue.
Therefore that doesn't feel realistic or desirable to me. Mitigation is crucial, clarity in decision making is crucial. Some disagreement is inevitable so we're stuck with it IMO
Remember what’s driving this. Potential litigation down the road.
It’s not us arguing over whether an attempted intercept should be a yellow if knocked on.
We are being told that there is a problem with concussions in the game. Steve Thompson, Steve Divine etc. There has also been insinuations that concussions have led to suicides of some players. We also have a couple of high profile players with ALS. Not sure if related.
As I stated before. I’m old school. I liked when Bechers Brook was a hard fence to jump. I like car crashes in F1. I like ice hockey fights.
But fine, that was then, this is now. We need to clean everything up. And I am wrong. I’m the dinosaur.
BUT. If the head is sacred , it’s sacred.
Jessie Kriel was fine after Canes hit. Beaudy was fine after Beirnes. Savea was bloodied but fine after Kolisi’s. But we don’t ref on outcome we ref on the offence. So they should all be red. And as an addendum to that. If the ref is saying things like “High degree of danger”…it should be a mandatory HIA for the player who got hit in the head.
Otherwise this is all just window dressing and arse covering for the potential court case down the road and not a real effort to clean up the game.
I was quite happy with Rugby up until the mid 2010’s but what had happened since is not progress….its a far worse product we are being served up.
We went from nobody ever being sent off or sin binned, to not being able to get through a game without a team going down to 14 in the space of a few years.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@gt12 said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
There has to be a system that allows the game to flow with some penalty for the player, but doesn't ruin the event for fans.
I thought that was a Yellow with a Review.
M’be there ought to be a time limit for decision? At least game proceeds either with full 15 or while bunker prevaricates!
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@Dodge said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
lets extend that logic then, either they're all off or none off?
All off - early 2023 interpretations effectively - was massively unpopular as it punished an always high lethal clothes line to the face in the same way it punished an accidental, drop in height passive collision. Most of the unpopularity came from the SH from memory, particularly Aus.
None off - Always high, loads of time shot to the face which knocks a player out gets a yellow. No incentive not to tackle high, no attempt to deal with the concussion issue in rugby etc.
Personally I wouldn't like to see it, as rugby is a dynamic contact sport and an accident or nothing incident can spoil a game. I also think we have to try and deal with the concussion issue.
Therefore that doesn't feel realistic or desirable to me. Mitigation is crucial, clarity in decision making is crucial. Some disagreement is inevitable so we're stuck with it IMO
How about KISS?
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Foul play head contact no HIA -- tackler on report. Two reports in game = YC
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Foul play head contact HIA -- automatic YC
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Mitigation stays yellow
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Clumsy no mitigation 20 minute red
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Deliberate straight red
Post match players on report review, with possibility of multi game suspesion if considered appropriate, e.g dangerous technique.
Game keeps flowing, and easy to ref!
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@Jet said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
They were/are foaming in the mouth that Clarke didn’t get sent for his high shot of Tommy O Brien.
Clemency for me but none for thee seems to be the mantra.
I was wondering if that would be brought up
No replays but captain asked the ref to look at it
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@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
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@DurryMexted said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
TM NO
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@DurryMexted said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
There is a system already in place for HIAs. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it?!
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@pakman it isnt broken?
The ref and TMO determined that a head contact significant enough for a review and subsequent red card had occurred, surely that is enough to warrant an HIA for the recipient of the head contact?
The whole process needs a review (head contact sanctions, HIAs) the way it is, it is a blight on the game and undermining both player safety and rugbys long term future with the inconsistencies.
