Red Cards & HIA
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At 4:50 in the post match the journalist asked Razor: “It was the right call?” regarding the Beirne incident.
Razors riposte:
“it was a red card wasn’t it?, so then it’s a red card”.
Three days later world rugby tell us :
It is not a red card. -
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Shoulder to the head of a player, no attempt to get low. If it is not a red card under current rules, then what is?
If no one knows if this is a red or yellow, then it is a big problem with the clarity of the rules.
Just shows how broken the game is. -
lets extend that logic then, either they're all off or none off?
All off - early 2023 interpretations effectively - was massively unpopular as it punished an always high lethal clothes line to the face in the same way it punished an accidental, drop in height passive collision. Most of the unpopularity came from the SH from memory, particularly Aus.
None off - Always high, loads of time shot to the face which knocks a player out gets a yellow. No incentive not to tackle high, no attempt to deal with the concussion issue in rugby etc.
Personally I wouldn't like to see it, as rugby is a dynamic contact sport and an accident or nothing incident can spoil a game. I also think we have to try and deal with the concussion issue.
Therefore that doesn't feel realistic or desirable to me. Mitigation is crucial, clarity in decision making is crucial. Some disagreement is inevitable so we're stuck with it IMO
@Dodge said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
lets extend that logic then, either they're all off or none off?
All off - early 2023 interpretations effectively - was massively unpopular as it punished an always high lethal clothes line to the face in the same way it punished an accidental, drop in height passive collision. Most of the unpopularity came from the SH from memory, particularly Aus.
None off - Always high, loads of time shot to the face which knocks a player out gets a yellow. No incentive not to tackle high, no attempt to deal with the concussion issue in rugby etc.
Personally I wouldn't like to see it, as rugby is a dynamic contact sport and an accident or nothing incident can spoil a game. I also think we have to try and deal with the concussion issue.
Therefore that doesn't feel realistic or desirable to me. Mitigation is crucial, clarity in decision making is crucial. Some disagreement is inevitable so we're stuck with it IMO
How about KISS?
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Foul play head contact no HIA -- tackler on report. Two reports in game = YC
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Foul play head contact HIA -- automatic YC
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Mitigation stays yellow
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Clumsy no mitigation 20 minute red
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Deliberate straight red
Post match players on report review, with possibility of multi game suspesion if considered appropriate, e.g dangerous technique.
Game keeps flowing, and easy to ref!
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They were/are foaming in the mouth that Clarke didn’t get sent for his high shot of Tommy O Brien.
Clemency for me but none for thee seems to be the mantra.
@Jet said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
They were/are foaming in the mouth that Clarke didn’t get sent for his high shot of Tommy O Brien.
Clemency for me but none for thee seems to be the mantra.
I was wondering if that would be brought up
No replays but captain asked the ref to look at it
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@Dodge said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
lets extend that logic then, either they're all off or none off?
All off - early 2023 interpretations effectively - was massively unpopular as it punished an always high lethal clothes line to the face in the same way it punished an accidental, drop in height passive collision. Most of the unpopularity came from the SH from memory, particularly Aus.
None off - Always high, loads of time shot to the face which knocks a player out gets a yellow. No incentive not to tackle high, no attempt to deal with the concussion issue in rugby etc.
Personally I wouldn't like to see it, as rugby is a dynamic contact sport and an accident or nothing incident can spoil a game. I also think we have to try and deal with the concussion issue.
Therefore that doesn't feel realistic or desirable to me. Mitigation is crucial, clarity in decision making is crucial. Some disagreement is inevitable so we're stuck with it IMO
How about KISS?
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Foul play head contact no HIA -- tackler on report. Two reports in game = YC
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Foul play head contact HIA -- automatic YC
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Mitigation stays yellow
-
Clumsy no mitigation 20 minute red
-
Deliberate straight red
Post match players on report review, with possibility of multi game suspesion if considered appropriate, e.g dangerous technique.
Game keeps flowing, and easy to ref!
@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
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@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
@DurryMexted said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
TM NO
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@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
@DurryMexted said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
There is a system already in place for HIAs. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it?!
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@DurryMexted said in Ireland v All Blacks - Chicago2:
@pakman So do the doctors get their own TMO to decide if HIA or no HIA? So ref can refer to TMO who can refer to doctor who can refer to their Doctor TMO?
There is a system already in place for HIAs. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it?!
@pakman it isnt broken?
The ref and TMO determined that a head contact significant enough for a review and subsequent red card had occurred, surely that is enough to warrant an HIA for the recipient of the head contact?
The whole process needs a review (head contact sanctions, HIAs) the way it is, it is a blight on the game and undermining both player safety and rugbys long term future with the inconsistencies.
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T taniwharugby moved this topic from Rugby Matches on
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Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got em.
Here is Gregor Paul's - the RC deserved to be rescinded and should never have been a penalty:
A highly trained game officiator thought the exact opposite.
And another officiating expert agrees with Paul.Just another in a long line of fuckin' embarrassments for WR (last two RWCs decided by RCs) which should lead to meaningful changes.
But probably wont.
Thought we left the amateurish BS behind 30 years ago.And this occured in a match between the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the world, in a game that was meant to showcase the sport in the largest sports market in the world.
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A highly trained game officiator thought the exact opposite.
And another officiating expert agrees with Paul.Just another in a long line of fuckin' embarrassments for WR (last two RWCs decided by RCs) which should lead to meaningful changes.
But probably wont.
Thought we left the amateurish BS behind 30 years ago.And this occured in a match between the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the world, in a game that was meant to showcase the sport in the largest sports market in the world.
I didn't mind some of his solutions (e.g., all referees for all club competitions are run by a single refereeing boss) even if I didn't think they were that realistic.
He also argued that we shouldn't have neutral refs as the idea is that the best ref in the world should get the premier games. That's stupid. There will be 5 odd games this week, so it's easy enough to split up the premier refs so that they aren't reffing their own country.
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The difficulty in reffing the head contact protocol consistently is a feature and not a bug.
It gives losing fans something to whinge about AND a convenient excuse for their team’s loss. Those benefits grow exponentially when their team benefits from a dodgy red card. Now they can claim the moral high ground and continue to ~~whinge about ~~ analyze the earlier reds their team copped in the no nonsense, deeply rational, nuanced and ethical fashion for which they are known throughout the rugby playing world.
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Just read Beauden Barrett's testimony to the disciplinary panel - superb sportsmanship - this is why we love the (real) beautiful game !
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I watch a lot of rugby league.
They have similar issues, but the officiating operates in a different manner.Nelson Asofa-Solomona just about made himself unemployable for a series of similar tackles to the one on the weekend.
I dont think he was actually sent off this year, but sin binned and reported several times.Referee just penalised and/or binned him for each incident, reporting him to the review panel each time.
Each game as a spectacle was not overly affected.
The incident went under the microscope at the review, and suspension followed.
That is a more practical way of officiating.The individual player was unable to adjust his technique, and put himself out on the street.
And there is no interweb thread discussing the inconsistent officiating of red cards.
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I watch a lot of rugby league.
They have similar issues, but the officiating operates in a different manner.Nelson Asofa-Solomona just about made himself unemployable for a series of similar tackles to the one on the weekend.
I dont think he was actually sent off this year, but sin binned and reported several times.Referee just penalised and/or binned him for each incident, reporting him to the review panel each time.
Each game as a spectacle was not overly affected.
The incident went under the microscope at the review, and suspension followed.
That is a more practical way of officiating.The individual player was unable to adjust his technique, and put himself out on the street.
And there is no interweb thread discussing the inconsistent officiating of red cards.
