Scotland v All Blacks
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Excellent analysis! From where I sat Leicester was a bit rocks and diamonds. Attempting offloads does lead to more errors, when sometimes just retaining possession is better option.
Was sitting behind posts and in first 30 noticeable that for all the lovely handling, AB backs were tending to run diagonally which shut down space for wingers. Needed the occasional cut back or just hard straight carry to keep Scots honest.
Also, delaying pass until tackler committed seems to be a lost centre art. Of recent times only recall Jack Goodhue being good at that.
Sort that and more opportunities will be converted, I’d have thought.
Cue old timer comment about Bruce Robertson! -
@pakman the flip side though is pass and back up, let the ball do some of the work to create space. Can't do that if you're tackled as you pass.
Also can't do that if you throw a shitty ball that support has to stop/stray for and support tucks it.
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@pakman Post of the thread. Hope Razor's reading this!
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@BerniesCorner Or that him and @pakman had breakfast together this morning.
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@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I was having a spirited exchange with a mate of mine about BB. His counterargument to my assessment that BB isn't up to it anymore was "we won and he didn't make any mistakes.". This guy knows rugby, and yet that's his view (and BB did make errors anyway). I can't reconcile how anyone who knows anything about rugby can go into bat for BB anymore
Guess that would suggest that you don't think any of the coaches etc know anything about rugby?
Do you ever read my posts Dan?
Mate tongue in cheek. Although I guess a few coaches who select him would go into bat etc is all I meant.
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@sparky said in Scotland v All Blacks:
How many bad games can Ardie Savea and Beauden Barrett keep having in Black?
I can't remember any of our players in the past escaping scrutiny for such consistently disappointing performances.
Thats the issue - there is a cognitive dissonance across the whole of NZ (& world) rugby media and consumers - people genuinely watch these guys play and their branding just over rides any actual critical thought about how these guys should be playing
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@Mauss awesome analysis and agree with all of that, the England match is going to be epic. That gif you posted of Holland's run showed the De Groot draw and pass to put him through the hole that I commented on during the game. Loving De Groot's work there, it's something he's obviously worked hard on and it means attacking movements don't break down if he receives the ball.
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Really good first half, although far from perfect. Followed by possibly the most brainless 20 minutes I've ever seen. Then DMac with an elite few minutes, 50-22, amazing finish then brilliant kick for goal. I hope we're getting closer to an 80 minute performance, we'll need close to that next week. Those yellow cards, my goodness. 2 were epic brain fades and you could even argue that Ardie's was extremely dumb, if he actually had any control in that position. I wonder if they practice defensive mauls that are going backwards - practice letting them score without giving away a penalty try + card, when a try is inevitable. Adding the yellow on top of conceding is catastrophic and was almost fatal to our chances.
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@Richie8-7 agree completely re: Savea. To put on my "whinging about the ref" hat, Scotland brought down one of our mauls 2m from their line by coming in from the side, stopping an almost certain try, but there was no YC for that as we scored soon afterwards. I hate how inconsistent the refs are.
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Very rarely does BB ever take the ball at pace, usually static or at a slow jogging pace then shovelled along, it is just odd how he is playing, and more confusingly, his continued selection.
Makes it so much easier for the defence knowing he isnt really a threat with the ball.
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@taniwharugby said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Very rarely does BB ever take the ball at pace, usually static or at a slow jogging pace then shovelled along, it is just odd how he is playing, and more confusingly, his continued selection.
Makes it so much easier for the defence knowing he isnt really a threat with the ball.
It's sad to watch, he spends most of the game looking like 38 year old Sexton, but without the patten around him or the accurate kicking. It's terrible for us right now, and how it sets us up for the return of our lord and savior who plays nothing like that, I don't know.
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@taniwharugby said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Very rarely does BB ever take the ball at pace, usually static or at a slow jogging pace then shovelled along, it is just odd how he is playing, and more confusingly, his continued selection.
Makes it so much easier for the defence knowing he isnt really a threat with the ball.
Occasionally I have a dream where I'm called up for the All Blacks but I don't know any of the plays so I'm confused, bumbling and hesitant - but I make do with what I can.
This is how BB plays now.
He's not playing by instinct and his brain doesn't work fast enough to make decisions on the fly.
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I kept a slightly closer eye on Will Jordan this game. Hes such a strange player to watch. And he is the polar opposite to the dual playmaker role that we tried to deploy.
In the attacking line, he is an absolute seagull looking to run off shoulders, he is barely ever actually in the line as such. when it comes off its excellent and he has already got a few yards on the defender because hes so quick off the mark. But two things i noticed
- When he spots a gap and runs it - If he doesnt get the pass, he runs about 3 or 4 metres past the play and completely removes himself from the next phase like a league player. Its really strange, i dont see anyone else do it like this, most backs are itching to get back in the line and will stop on a dime to reset
- When he does make a break - his decision making is not flash. But its almost like he doesnt allow himself to slow down and look around, he is purely ears pinned and go. And his body is so locked in to his running style that he just cant give a good pass when it arises.
Its like hes built for pure line breaks
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@taniwharugby said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Very rarely does BB ever take the ball at pace, usually static or at a slow jogging pace then shovelled along, it is just odd how he is playing, and more confusingly, his continued selection.
Makes it so much easier for the defence knowing he isnt really a threat with the ball.
It’s sticks out now like a sore thumb and has become progressively worse over the last 2 seasons. It impacts the forward carries generated off that let alone the backline. Contrast it with Mckenzie (or anyone else) hitting it at pace and still throwing a wide ball at full tilt.
Remember how we were getting it wide at will in the last 10 against Ireland? That’s where the space came from. The defense has to fix and see if Mckenize is going to run it rather than just aggressively closing up on the outside options.
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@No-Quarter said in Scotland v All Blacks:
That gif you posted of Holland's run showed the De Groot draw and pass to put him through the hole that I commented on during the game. Loving De Groot's work there, it's something he's obviously worked hard on and it means attacking movements don't break down if he receives the ball.
Yeah, de Groot has shown some really nice touches in the past few weeks. I've felt that the ballplaying of not just de Groot but the forward pack as a whole has been really good in the past few Tests. There seems to be a bit more desire to move the ball and shift the point of attack, and the forwards have been instrumental in achieving this. The ball movement of the tight five as well as someone like Peter Lakai’s short-passing ability close to the line has been a real asset.
It comes to the fore nicely if you bring together all the ballplaying involvements of the pack from the Tests against Ireland and Scotland. What’s noticeable is that there is a more or less equal distribution amongst the forwards in passing/offloading and carrying. This makes it very hard for the defence to know where the collision is actually going to take place.
Ballplaying involvements from the AB pack against Ireland and Scotland: total passes + offloads, carries and turnoversIt makes it a lot tougher as a defender to put in double tackles and dominant hits if you aren’t sure where the carry is going to come from. If you add in the lost turnovers as well, it shows that the AB pack does have the skillset for this kind of expansive game plan, with just 6 total turnovers across the pack from the past two Tests.
There might be less ballplaying amongst the pack against England if the conditions prove to be more challenging but it wouldn’t surprise me if the ABs still backed their skillset, even in rainy weather.
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@DurryMexted said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@sparky said in Scotland v All Blacks:
How many bad games can Ardie Savea and Beauden Barrett keep having in Black?
I can't remember any of our players in the past escaping scrutiny for such consistently disappointing performances.
Thats the issue - there is a cognitive dissonance across the whole of NZ (& world) rugby media and consumers - people genuinely watch these guys play and their branding just over rides any actual critical thought about how these guys should be playing
Fans remember ageing rugby players the way they remember their favourite things from their childhood: not as they are now, but frozen at their peak, before time made them ordinary and through a haze of nostalgia that edits out the bad. It doesn't matter how bad Barrett gets, he scored that try off the bench in the 2015 World Cup final and it was a fantastic moment that stuck with people.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@DurryMexted said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@sparky said in Scotland v All Blacks:
How many bad games can Ardie Savea and Beauden Barrett keep having in Black?
I can't remember any of our players in the past escaping scrutiny for such consistently disappointing performances.
Thats the issue - there is a cognitive dissonance across the whole of NZ (& world) rugby media and consumers - people genuinely watch these guys play and their branding just over rides any actual critical thought about how these guys should be playing
Fans remember ageing rugby players the way they remember their favourite things from their childhood: not as they are now, but frozen at their peak, before time made them ordinary and through a haze of nostalgia that edits out the bad. It doesn't matter how bad Barrett gets, he scored that try off the bench in the 2015 World Cup final and it was a fantastic moment that stuck with people.
Fans, yes. But historically we have been ruthless at the selection table. Not anymore.
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I suspect BB was always a limited 10 but his speed and flukiness blinded us*. Not sure why the rest could not have been worked on once the miracles and the speed dissipated.
*Not correct phrasing, plenty on here mentioned it over the years. But I hope you know what I mean.
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@nostrildamus said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I suspect BB was always a limited 10 but his speed and flukiness blinded us*.
he always was!
An absolute freak of a rugby player (in a good way), but not a traditional game controlling 10.
