Scotland v All Blacks
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@taniwharugby said in Scotland v All Blacks:
Very rarely does BB ever take the ball at pace, usually static or at a slow jogging pace then shovelled along, it is just odd how he is playing, and more confusingly, his continued selection.
Makes it so much easier for the defence knowing he isnt really a threat with the ball.
It’s sticks out now like a sore thumb and has become progressively worse over the last 2 seasons. It impacts the forward carries generated off that let alone the backline. Contrast it with Mckenzie (or anyone else) hitting it at pace and still throwing a wide ball at full tilt.
Remember how we were getting it wide at will in the last 10 against Ireland? That’s where the space came from. The defense has to fix and see if Mckenize is going to run it rather than just aggressively closing up on the outside options.
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@No-Quarter said in Scotland v All Blacks:
That gif you posted of Holland's run showed the De Groot draw and pass to put him through the hole that I commented on during the game. Loving De Groot's work there, it's something he's obviously worked hard on and it means attacking movements don't break down if he receives the ball.
Yeah, de Groot has shown some really nice touches in the past few weeks. I've felt that the ballplaying of not just de Groot but the forward pack as a whole has been really good in the past few Tests. There seems to be a bit more desire to move the ball and shift the point of attack, and the forwards have been instrumental in achieving this. The ball movement of the tight five as well as someone like Peter Lakai’s short-passing ability close to the line has been a real asset.
It comes to the fore nicely if you bring together all the ballplaying involvements of the pack from the Tests against Ireland and Scotland. What’s noticeable is that there is a more or less equal distribution amongst the forwards in passing/offloading and carrying. This makes it very hard for the defence to know where the collision is actually going to take place.
Ballplaying involvements from the AB pack against Ireland and Scotland: total passes + offloads, carries and turnoversIt makes it a lot tougher as a defender to put in double tackles and dominant hits if you aren’t sure where the carry is going to come from. If you add in the lost turnovers as well, it shows that the AB pack does have the skillset for this kind of expansive game plan, with just 6 total turnovers across the pack from the past two Tests.
There might be less ballplaying amongst the pack against England if the conditions prove to be more challenging but it wouldn’t surprise me if the ABs still backed their skillset, even in rainy weather.
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@DurryMexted said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@sparky said in Scotland v All Blacks:
How many bad games can Ardie Savea and Beauden Barrett keep having in Black?
I can't remember any of our players in the past escaping scrutiny for such consistently disappointing performances.
Thats the issue - there is a cognitive dissonance across the whole of NZ (& world) rugby media and consumers - people genuinely watch these guys play and their branding just over rides any actual critical thought about how these guys should be playing
Fans remember ageing rugby players the way they remember their favourite things from their childhood: not as they are now, but frozen at their peak, before time made them ordinary and through a haze of nostalgia that edits out the bad. It doesn't matter how bad Barrett gets, he scored that try off the bench in the 2015 World Cup final and it was a fantastic moment that stuck with people.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@DurryMexted said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@sparky said in Scotland v All Blacks:
How many bad games can Ardie Savea and Beauden Barrett keep having in Black?
I can't remember any of our players in the past escaping scrutiny for such consistently disappointing performances.
Thats the issue - there is a cognitive dissonance across the whole of NZ (& world) rugby media and consumers - people genuinely watch these guys play and their branding just over rides any actual critical thought about how these guys should be playing
Fans remember ageing rugby players the way they remember their favourite things from their childhood: not as they are now, but frozen at their peak, before time made them ordinary and through a haze of nostalgia that edits out the bad. It doesn't matter how bad Barrett gets, he scored that try off the bench in the 2015 World Cup final and it was a fantastic moment that stuck with people.
Fans, yes. But historically we have been ruthless at the selection table. Not anymore.
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I suspect BB was always a limited 10 but his speed and flukiness blinded us*. Not sure why the rest could not have been worked on once the miracles and the speed dissipated.
*Not correct phrasing, plenty on here mentioned it over the years. But I hope you know what I mean.
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@nostrildamus said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I suspect BB was always a limited 10 but his speed and flukiness blinded us*.
he always was!
An absolute freak of a rugby player (in a good way), but not a traditional game controlling 10.
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@ACT-Crusader Ryan and Akira was better.
Don't turn up -
@nostrildamus said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I suspect BB was always a limited 10 but his speed and flukiness blinded us*. Not sure why the rest could not have been worked on once the miracles and the speed dissipated.
*Not correct phrasing, plenty on here mentioned it over the years. But I hope you know what I mean.
The speed made it look flukey.
I reckon Sevu Reece had similar "luck" as the ball bounced to where he would end up being.
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@BerniesCorner said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@His-Bobness The whole thing makes me nervous. For better or worse we should be developing alternative players at 10.
We don't want a repeat of 2011.I'd love a repeat of 2011, at this stage our current team probably isn't up for that type of success.
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@DurryMexted said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I kept a slightly closer eye on Will Jordan this game. Hes such a strange player to watch. And he is the polar opposite to the dual playmaker role that we tried to deploy.
In the attacking line, he is an absolute seagull looking to run off shoulders, he is barely ever actually in the line as such. when it comes off its excellent and he has already got a few yards on the defender because hes so quick off the mark. But two things i noticed
- When he spots a gap and runs it - If he doesnt get the pass, he runs about 3 or 4 metres past the play and completely removes himself from the next phase like a league player. Its really strange, i dont see anyone else do it like this, most backs are itching to get back in the line and will stop on a dime to reset
- When he does make a break - his decision making is not flash. But its almost like he doesnt allow himself to slow down and look around, he is purely ears pinned and go. And his body is so locked in to his running style that he just cant give a good pass when it arises.
Its like hes built for pure line breaks
Another player that did that was Howlett.
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@ACT-Crusader interesting, I fucking hated Howlett the first few years.
But....his work ethic and general skills were light years ahead of Jordan.
Have I mentioned Lelia Masaga?
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I don’t like this bit. Even if he is the best option at this stage (I don’t think he is) how do they find out if someone else is better when no time is being put into anyone else? Come 2027, there might very well be a better option if the time is put into them now. Barrett is getting worse and worse but gets all the game time. It’s very short sighted. Unfortunately what they seem to be doing is waiting for the return of Mo’unfa, who might be okay or much worse than he was when he went overseas.
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@nostrildamus said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I suspect BB was always a limited 10 but his speed and flukiness blinded us*. Not sure why the rest could not have been worked on once the miracles and the speed dissipated.
*Not correct phrasing, plenty on here mentioned it over the years. But I hope you know what I mean.
Even at his peak I think it was genuinely accepted, on the fern at least, that he was not a top drawer game manager
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
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@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
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@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Seems to run the backline well? I really could not disagree with that more. Our backline has been bloody poor for most of the minutes of most of the games this year. The best bits and the best performances by other backs, including Jordie Barrett, have come when McKenzie has been on.
Robertson probably thinks he's kicked a goal because McKenzie is performing very well off the bench and our last 20 minutes is vastly improved. Of course it has improved when you've put your most influential back there.
The reality is that McKenzie is just a far superior player to BB these days. If they'd stuck with him, by now he'd probably be going great guns as a starting ten - and would undoubtedly be better than the stand still and shovel slop we are getting served up. No AB ten in my watching lifetime has stood still and played at walking pace like we are seeing right now, not even those who were amazing with the boot (late Fox being the closest). It is that which is messing everything up - but then BB's also missing touch from penalties and butchering overlaps.Unless what you look for in a ten is mostly being from Taranaki?
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@reprobate said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Dan54 said in Scotland v All Blacks:
I tend to think that BB isn't what he was, but in my opinion not as bad as some say. Also probably like it or not best 10 in NZ for test rugby at at this stage. Hopefully we get a couple come through in super next year.
I can't understand this logic. Probably the best? Based on what? Last time I recall DMac getting a proper run at 10 he played a winning hand vs Ireland last season. After that he has barely featured. BB has been as much of a handbrake on our backline as anyone. He's looked better in the games Cam plays because Cam is taking much of the load off him. If they wanted someone to just shuffle pass along I'm sure that Plummer could have done that, and with a better kicking game
As I said mate, based on my opinion. What I look for in a 10, he seems to run the backline well, and is (in y opinion again) good on defence. I not saying I am anymore right than you or anyone else, just how I see it. I also a DMac fan, though tend to see him as who I may well like to see at 15. Would I prefer BB was playing better? Yep. but say similar about a few players.
Seems to run the backline well? I really could not disagree with that more. Our backline has been bloody poor for most of the minutes of most of the games this year. The best bits and the best performances by other backs, including Jordie Barrett, have come when McKenzie has been on.
Robertson probably thinks he's kicked a goal because McKenzie is performing very well off the bench and our last 20 minutes is vastly improved. Of course it has improved when you've put your most influential back there.
The reality is that McKenzie is just a far superior player to BB these days. If they'd stuck with him, by now he'd probably be going great guns as a starting ten - and would undoubtedly be better than the stand still and shovel slop we are getting served up. No AB ten in my watching lifetime has stood still and played at walking pace like we are seeing right now, not even those who were amazing with the boot (late Fox being the closest). It is that which is messing everything up - but then BB's also missing touch from penalties and butchering overlaps.Unless what you look for in a ten is mostly being from Taranaki?
Gus said exactly this on Breakdown. DMac and the bench have been great bailing us out late. I think it was Goldie that said why do we keep needing to win games late? Knowing the obvious answer
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@Bones said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@ACT-Crusader interesting, I fucking hated Howlett the first few years.
But....his work ethic and general skills were light years ahead of Jordan.
Have I mentioned Lelia Masaga?
Wasn’t he a flash in the pan, though?
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@pakman said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@Bones said in Scotland v All Blacks:
@ACT-Crusader interesting, I fucking hated Howlett the first few years.
But....his work ethic and general skills were light years ahead of Jordan.
Have I mentioned Lelia Masaga?
Wasn’t he a flash in the pan, though?
Lelia Tony Corona Masaga played 91 games for the chiefs and had @Nepia on his case for 90 of those, doesn't seem too pan flashy.
As an aside, if I had those middle names, they would definitely be the name I played rugby under.
