Exodus
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@reprobate said in Exodus:
Cause if winning the game single-handedly doesn't qualify as fire from McKenzie
No one wins a game single-handedly that is an overstatement he was brilliant of the bench for 20 minutes no doubt.
But there were other contributors on the field that did contribute to the win.
BB has been shit for ages, DMac should get another crack at First Five he did get an extended run at First five when Robertson first took over 7 games straight and didn't take his chance.
But BB wasn't the answer we would have been better off just sticking with D Mac if the plan was to get Mounga back.
And we should be doing the now imo.I agree with pretty much all of that. While he wasn't compelling at the start of last year, I think McKenzie did show more than enough to be persisted with (especially given his comparative lack of test experience at 10 vs Barrett). There were plenty of patches of really good play, but we were falling apart in the last 20 and for some reason he took the fall for that.
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You truly believe that the coaches are holding the All Blacks back to engineer a scenario where a returning player can therefore make them look better for 1/3rd of the World Cup cycle?
I think Robertson has totally made his mind up that Mounga is the guy, and he is trying to take a conservative treading water approach using the most experienced guy available until then. I don't think he is trying to lose, but I do think he is completely risk averse in that position because he thinks he has a solution coming and he's making a terribly wrong call.
And I think that's shit. Both for now (because McKenzie is already better), in terms of contingency should Mounga get injured (because BB will be worse still by the WC and we aren't developing other options), and in terms of what happens to the ABs post-WC when Mounga buggers off again. -
@reprobate said in Exodus:
The ABs are only on hold for him because our other two test 10s haven't grabbed the jersey with both hands.
If BB and Dmac had been dominating I don't think RMo comes back. He'd have been watching. If he'd seen Beaudie or Damien killing it, he'd have thought "I'll take two more seasons earning mega-bucks in Japan, thanks".
But there's an opportunity there and a competitive itch to scratch.
I don't blame him for wanting to have another crack at a RWC. And I don't blame NZR for ensuring the best talent they can afford is available for a World Cup mission.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
He might come back and suck at NPC. Between now and then Dmac or Beaudie might catch fire.
You can't blame Richie and can't blame NZR for wanting to give it a crack given both aspire to win the next RWC. You can blame rugby economics which means we can't hold onto our best players for their entire 16-year career.
I guess you missed the game last week? Cause if winning the game single-handedly doesn't qualify as fire from McKenzie then I don't know what is. But he still won't get a start, because Raygun is waiting for Mounga.
Wasn't all that long ago BB came off the bench and did some things that had people calling for him to start. Against England and at 15 I think, but my point is I don't think bench performances are necessarily an accurate gauge over whether someone should start.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Exodus:
@reprobate said in Exodus:
The ABs are only on hold for him because our other two test 10s haven't grabbed the jersey with both hands.
If BB and Dmac had been dominating I don't think RMo comes back. He'd have been watching. If he'd seen Beaudie or Damien killing it, he'd have thought "I'll take two more seasons earning mega-bucks in Japan, thanks".
But there's an opportunity there and a competitive itch to scratch.
I don't blame him for wanting to have another crack at a RWC. And I don't blame NZR for ensuring the best talent they can afford is available for a World Cup mission.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
He might come back and suck at NPC. Between now and then Dmac or Beaudie might catch fire.
You can't blame Richie and can't blame NZR for wanting to give it a crack given both aspire to win the next RWC. You can blame rugby economics which means we can't hold onto our best players for their entire 16-year career.
I guess you missed the game last week? Cause if winning the game single-handedly doesn't qualify as fire from McKenzie then I don't know what is. But he still won't get a start, because Raygun is waiting for Mounga.
Wasn't all that long ago BB came off the bench and did some things that had people calling for him to start. Against England and at 15 I think, but my point is I don't think bench performances are necessarily an accurate gauge over whether someone should start.
Well... it was nearly a year and a half ago, which is a long time for a 34 year old who has pace and acceleration as their major weapons.
A lot longer than 5 days, anyway. -
@reprobate said in Exodus:
@Crazy-Horse said in Exodus:
@reprobate said in Exodus:
The ABs are only on hold for him because our other two test 10s haven't grabbed the jersey with both hands.
If BB and Dmac had been dominating I don't think RMo comes back. He'd have been watching. If he'd seen Beaudie or Damien killing it, he'd have thought "I'll take two more seasons earning mega-bucks in Japan, thanks".
But there's an opportunity there and a competitive itch to scratch.
I don't blame him for wanting to have another crack at a RWC. And I don't blame NZR for ensuring the best talent they can afford is available for a World Cup mission.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
He might come back and suck at NPC. Between now and then Dmac or Beaudie might catch fire.
You can't blame Richie and can't blame NZR for wanting to give it a crack given both aspire to win the next RWC. You can blame rugby economics which means we can't hold onto our best players for their entire 16-year career.
I guess you missed the game last week? Cause if winning the game single-handedly doesn't qualify as fire from McKenzie then I don't know what is. But he still won't get a start, because Raygun is waiting for Mounga.
Wasn't all that long ago BB came off the bench and did some things that had people calling for him to start. Against England and at 15 I think, but my point is I don't think bench performances are necessarily an accurate gauge over whether someone should start.
Well... it was nearly a year and a half ago, which is a long time for a 34 year old who has pace and acceleration as their major weapons.
A lot longer than 5 days, anyway.BB was struggling back then too.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Exodus:
@reprobate said in Exodus:
@Crazy-Horse said in Exodus:
@reprobate said in Exodus:
The ABs are only on hold for him because our other two test 10s haven't grabbed the jersey with both hands.
If BB and Dmac had been dominating I don't think RMo comes back. He'd have been watching. If he'd seen Beaudie or Damien killing it, he'd have thought "I'll take two more seasons earning mega-bucks in Japan, thanks".
But there's an opportunity there and a competitive itch to scratch.
I don't blame him for wanting to have another crack at a RWC. And I don't blame NZR for ensuring the best talent they can afford is available for a World Cup mission.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
He might come back and suck at NPC. Between now and then Dmac or Beaudie might catch fire.
You can't blame Richie and can't blame NZR for wanting to give it a crack given both aspire to win the next RWC. You can blame rugby economics which means we can't hold onto our best players for their entire 16-year career.
I guess you missed the game last week? Cause if winning the game single-handedly doesn't qualify as fire from McKenzie then I don't know what is. But he still won't get a start, because Raygun is waiting for Mounga.
Wasn't all that long ago BB came off the bench and did some things that had people calling for him to start. Against England and at 15 I think, but my point is I don't think bench performances are necessarily an accurate gauge over whether someone should start.
Well... it was nearly a year and a half ago, which is a long time for a 34 year old who has pace and acceleration as their major weapons.
A lot longer than 5 days, anyway.BB was struggling back then too.
BB was struggling when Foster fucked him off in 2022 in South Africa.
And yet here we are.
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The ABs are only on hold for him because our other two test 10s haven't grabbed the jersey with both hands.
If BB and Dmac had been dominating I don't think RMo comes back. He'd have been watching. If he'd seen Beaudie or Damien killing it, he'd have thought "I'll take two more seasons earning mega-bucks in Japan, thanks".
But there's an opportunity there and a competitive itch to scratch.
I don't blame him for wanting to have another crack at a RWC. And I don't blame NZR for ensuring the best talent they can afford is available for a World Cup mission.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
He might come back and suck at NPC. Between now and then Dmac or Beaudie might catch fire.
You can't blame Richie and can't blame NZR for wanting to give it a crack given both aspire to win the next RWC. You can blame rugby economics which means we can't hold onto our best players for their entire 16-year career.
McKenzie was quite rightly named in the World Rugby Team of the Year at 10.
He was the fulcrum behind most of the good things that the All Blacks did last year - and he had to do it without Cam Roigard at halfback. Lo and behold, an area that used to be a weakness for NZ, the final 20, is now a comparative strength because they've moved one of their best players to the bench...
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@reprobate said in Exodus:
You truly believe that the coaches are holding the All Blacks back to engineer a scenario where a returning player can therefore make them look better for 1/3rd of the World Cup cycle?
I think Robertson has totally made his mind up that Mounga is the guy, and he is trying to take a conservative treading water approach using the most experienced guy available until then. I don't think he is trying to lose, but I do think he is completely risk averse in that position because he thinks he has a solution coming and he's making a terribly wrong call.
And I think that's shit. Both for now (because McKenzie is already better), in terms of contingency should Mounga get injured (because BB will be worse still by the WC and we aren't developing other options), and in terms of what happens to the ABs post-WC when Mounga buggers off again.Is that what we want from our AB coach? I can't imagine Ted back in the day hanging his hat on waiting for some player to return.
I don't think anyone expected this from Razor as a coach.
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Agree. It’s a risky strategy. Mounga sounds like he has been playing well in Japan - his team won the competition. He will be 33 by the end of RWC27 - same as Carter was. Is Razor hoping history repeats or is this blind coaching loyalty dating back to Crusader successes?
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@taniwharugby said in Exodus:
@canefan so who would our #5 be right now then...Reihana?
At least Beaver had played test rugby.
Thats the problem when no one other than BB gets a sniff
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@reprobate said in Exodus:
You truly believe that the coaches are holding the All Blacks back to engineer a scenario where a returning player can therefore make them look better for 1/3rd of the World Cup cycle?
I think Robertson has totally made his mind up that Mounga is the guy, and he is trying to take a conservative treading water approach using the most experienced guy available until then. I don't think he is trying to lose, but I do think he is completely risk averse in that position because he thinks he has a solution coming and he's making a terribly wrong call.
And I think that's shit. Both for now (because McKenzie is already better), in terms of contingency should Mounga get injured (because BB will be worse still by the WC and we aren't developing other options), and in terms of what happens to the ABs post-WC when Mounga buggers off again.Is that what we want from our AB coach? I can't imagine Ted back in the day hanging his hat on waiting for some player to return.
I don't think anyone expected this from Razor as a coach.
Clearly the final 25 minutes is more important than the first 65...
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"over-hyped little Cantab" was one of the terms.
@reprobate said in Exodus:
Mounga was the starting 10. It's the most influential position on the field. Of course he's a big loss
Mo'unga is 70% win rate as a starter for ABs.
Overall vs Top 6: 17/28 (61%)
Without Australia: 9/18 (50%)
vs NH: 2/6 (33%)Opponent Record
Argentina 4-2
South Africa 3-3
Australia 8-1-1
Ireland 2-0
France 0-2
England 0-1-1Fair stats - and Mo'unga was by no means perfect, but the big problem I remembered was that him and BB played together. The dual playmaker strategy used then is not commonly employed anymore for good reason.
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"over-hyped little Cantab" was one of the terms.
@reprobate said in Exodus:
Mounga was the starting 10. It's the most influential position on the field. Of course he's a big loss
Mo'unga is 70% win rate as a starter for ABs.
Overall vs Top 6: 17/28 (61%)
Without Australia: 9/18 (50%)
vs NH: 2/6 (33%)Opponent Record
Argentina 4-2
South Africa 3-3
Australia 8-1-1
Ireland 2-0
France 0-2
England 0-1-1Fair stats - and Mo'unga was by no means perfect, but the big problem I remembered was that him and BB played together. The dual playmaker strategy used then is not commonly employed anymore for good reason.
And yet, the current team looks 10 times better when we have Dmac and Barrett together.
if you go back to 2018, we used Dmac and Barrett together plenty and they were excellent. The issue is that things started going wrong when we tried to do the same with Mo'unga and Barrett.
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@gt12 I think strategically teams use dual playmakers now differently to a few years ago. Particularly around the time of the 2019 RWC, the trend was to play with a left and a right, a bit like they did in league, but it just meant nobody controlled the game.
When Barrett and DMac play together currently, Barrett is generally still the primary playmaker, but DMac will occasionally inject off the same side. It's quite different.
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Confirmed that Ross Filipo will be an assistant coach at the Hanazono Kintetsu Liners. Even though they are a Div 2 club, the money is much greater than what he was earning in NZ. Akira Ioane and now Peter Umaga-Jensen are there.
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