All Blacks 2025

canefan

@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

It's not complicated. Pick our best players and regain our steel. And our results will improve by 10-15 points per game.

Well that's the problem though isn't it? That won't happen unless selection is taken out of Razor's hands

SouthernMann

Problem is the playing group is as hard to get out of as it is in to.

Then there are the favourites and the outsiders.

Seems stupid guys like Papali’i, Fakatava, Sotutu (don't want to drag that debate back) and a couple of others who should have been re-looked at have just been left on the shelf.

While some of the favourites like ALB, several of the loosies, Reiko, Reece etc have ben persevered with.

Certainly is an in group and an out of favour group.

From what I have been told Razor is a really difficult task master of his management group too. Which makes things very difficult.

Jet

27 Tests into Razors tenure and nobody other than Beaudy and DMAC has started at 10.

canefan

@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

27 Tests into Razors tenure and nobody other than Beaudy and DMAC has started at 10.

How many starts for each man? Overwhelmingly in favour of BB I would expect

Jet

Devlin gone off on them.

brodean

@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

Time to cast the net ahead. How do you fix this? There is so much wrong with this team when you dig down into it. Who knows who will be coach, but here's my two sense worth.

Captain
Scott Barrett is a problem - but this is a problem which has plagued the All Blacks for the best part of eight years. Since give or take the end of 2018, for the best part of the period our captain has arguably only been in the team because he is well, the captain. Read was done by 2019, Cane struggled for consistent form from 2020-2023, and Scott Barrett has never really grasped it. This needs to be nipped in the bud. You could go Codie Taylor or Ardie Savea, but I just think this team is screaming out for something totally fresh. I'm not in the environment, but I'd be looking at co-captains. One issue we have, is there are few ABs right now who are guaranteed starters, who are also going to play most of the game. It could be a risk, but I'd go with Tupou Vaa'i and Jordie Barrett as co-captains.

With a new captain instilled, we need to focus on a harder edge, so how does this effect the playing squad?

Front Row
Prop is one position where we are fine. All the props we have used this year outside of Lomax have been good, and Lomax is presumably just a form issue. Codie Taylor still has plenty of value as the starting hooker, but I think it is all to play for in behind him. Samisoni Taukei'aho is a good ball carrier, but his lineout and scrummaging work doesn't really seem to be up to scratch. Given Aumua can't stay fit, I think it is time to find out how good George Bell really is. Whether he was brought in prematurely is irrelevant now. FWIW, I would start him next week, but going forward, he is surely a big part of the All Blacks.

Lock
Having lost the captaincy, I think the writing is on the rule for Scooter in this regime. Fabian Holland, Tupou Vaa'i and Patrick Tuipulotu have vastly outplayed him this year, and Josh Lord has arguably been the player of the Northern Tour. That's your four locks, and if you should need a fifth one if Vaa'i is required on the blindside, that is Sam Darry

Loose Forward
We need to be a tougher in the loose I feel. I think Vaa'i offers that hard edge, so in the absence of a better option, I'd play him on the blindside. Lakai shifts to seven, with Sititi at eight. How to bulk out the squad? Ardie definitely still of value off the bench, so you need two more - a blindside and another number eight. I can't understand why Lio-Willie was sidelined - he come back in as the other number eight. We are on the lookout for a big fucker to do the hard yards at six. Flanders, Howden, Haig, Stodart shape as the ones to watch through Super for me. Parker has been a massive let down, and Kirifi probably never should have been picked in the first place. Jacobson can't stay fit so he is moved on too

Halfback
Cam Roigard has been the All Blacks best player this year, but at what stage does his fitness start to become a bit of a concern? Regardless, he is clearly number one. The current retards get what they deserve for backing Ratima and Christie. The other two next year should be whichever two of Pledger, Fakatava and Hotham have the best Super campaigns.

First Five
Beauden Barrett has to go. Has to go. He is simply too inconsistent. I think in the absence of an obvious better option, for the moment you'd have to lean for McKenzie at 10, but also in a remoddelled ABs, you could opt for a different style of 10. I remain unconvinced in Jacomb's kicking abilities, and Reihana is a bit beige and I think would come unstuck when challenged with the pace of test rugby. One to follow across Super Rugby.

The Rest of the Backline
Jordie Barrett has been instilled as captain, and remains an obvious starter - but where? Lets kill two birds with one stone. Will Jordan is the world's best winger, but he isn't a top-line playmaker. We also can't catch the high ball. Move Jordie back to 15. That leaves spaces at 12, 13 and on the left wing. I think Quinn Tupaea has plenty to offer with a consistent run, so he plays at 12.

For mine, Proctor has been the letdown of the year, and is not worth persisting with.

Tavatavanawai and Fainga'anuku both lack the top line pace to be starting wingers, and lack the direction to be your starting centre, but they are the ideal players to have on the bench to provide punch.

ALB is done, and needs to be moved on. Ioane is also past his best, but is our best defensive centre currently available. I'd be looking at him and Brayden Ennor, who should have been brought back into the fold for this end of year tour.

As for the other winger spot, you are looking for a lethal left winger. Caleb Tangitau is that guy. He might have deficiencies, but there is no substitute for pure pace and power. Carter is workmanlike, but lacks X-Factor for me.

I like Narawa and Clarke as squad options.

There will obviously be guys through Super Rugby who put their hand up, and I think at hooker and in the midfield the chance is really there for someone to bolt through the door. I think they will take 43 players on the big tour, and here is a potential new-look squad. Some of the squad picks are wildly speculative, but you get the idea.

A potential new look All Blacks to tour South Africa next year

Ethan de Groot

Codie Taylor

Fletcher Newell

Josh Lord

Fabian Holland

Tupou Vaa'i (c)

Peter Lakai

Wallace Sititi

Cam Roigard

Damian McKenzie

Caleb Tangitau

Quinn Tupaea

Brayden Ennor

Will Jordan

Jordie Barrett (c)

George Bell

Tamaiti Williams

Pasilio Tosi

Patrick Tuipulotu

Ardie Savea

Dylan Pledger

Ruben Love

Timoci Tavatavanawai

Spare Props: Ollie Norris, Tyrel Lomax, Josh Fusitua, George Dyer
Spare Hookers: Samisoni Taukei'aho, Jack Taylor
Spare Locks: Sam Darry, Josh Beehre
Spare Loose Forwards: Will Stodart, Dalton Papalii, Christian Lio-Willie, Devan Flanders
Spare Halfbacks: Noah Hotham, Folau Fakatava
Spare First Five: Josh Jacomb
Spare Midfielders: Dallas McLeod, Rieko Ioane
Spare Outside Backs: Caleb Clarke, Emoni Narawa, Jacob Ratumaitavuki Kneepkens

Vaa'i was a poor defender at 6 for the AB's. He missed the most tackles this year. His tackle accuracy went from being 90% last year to 80% this year. He's not a 60 minute player. He starts doing silly things after 60 minutes.

brodean

@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

@LABCAT He may well have been our best, but 4 tries in 21 games, including 3 in 3 NPC games is a woeful strike rate.

The All Black attack has been poor. Before we faced Australia in the RC this year we had scored the least amount of tries of any team. There has been no improvement in this. Even today we struggled to make ground against England.

brodean

De Groot and Newell are useless at carrying. They should focus more on hitting rucks but they seem part of the attack plan.

Metres per carry 2025:
0.3 De Groot
0.6 Newell

Combined they have made 80 carries for 39 metres this year. That is woeful and they shouldn't be part of the attack. Chiming in and making out the back door passes is also useless if you are not a running threat. Out the back door passes only work if you are an actual running threat that will hold the defence up.

Apart from Lakai our loose forwards seem incapable of making hard metres which is another problem.

canefan

@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

@LABCAT He may well have been our best, but 4 tries in 21 games, including 3 in 3 NPC games is a woeful strike rate.

The All Black attack has been poor. Before we faced Australia in the RC this year we had scored the least amount of tries of any team. There has been no improvement in this. Even today we struggled to make ground against England.

No wonder our attack looks garbage

Crazy Horse

@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

Devlin gone off on them.

I don't get Devlin's call for the assistant coaches to get sacked but keep Razor in his job, a call that has been made on here by some as well. Razor is the boss, the buck stops with him.

Jet

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

Devlin gone off on them.

I don't get Devlin's call for the assistant coaches to get sacked but keep Razor in his job, a call that has been made on here by some as well. Razor is the boss, the buck stops with him.

I agree with you.
If more assistants go it's a tacit admission he himself has to go, as that would be 4 or 5 assistants gone in 2 years.

I havnt seen any players improve under him bar Fletcher Newell and maybe Ryan gets the credit for that.
His press conferences are atrocious.
Selection is atrocious.
Tactics are atrocious.
His accountability and squad culture is atrocious.

He deserved to be given the job when he got it.

He doesnt deserve to keep it.

Crazy Horse

For what it's worth, Razor's press conferences were pretty dire for the Saders too, but that got over looked because he was winning. He really struggles to articulate. I wonder what he is like when addressing the players?

canefan

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

Devlin gone off on them.

I don't get Devlin's call for the assistant coaches to get sacked but keep Razor in his job, a call that has been made on here by some as well. Razor is the boss, the buck stops with him.

NZR has never sacked a SR coach let alone and AB coach. Sacking all his assistants is the only realistic outcome

canefan

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:

For what it's worth, Razor's press conferences were pretty dire for the Saders too, but that got over looked because he was winning. He really struggles to articulate. I wonder what he is like when addressing the players?

He seems more of a Ra-Ra type guy than a methodical thoughtful leader

nzzp

How Tamati Ellison still has a job is beyond me. Talk about failing upwards. We ship 30+ points multiple times a season - and guess what, we lose games as a result. It's awful.

As for the cards, it's the way WR want the game reffed these days. it sucks. So I listened to most of the game drifting around on my yak this morning ... not surprised by the result unfortunately. The fishing was better than the rugby!

No Quarter

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:

For what it's worth, Razor's press conferences were pretty dire for the Saders too, but that got over looked because he was winning. He really struggles to articulate. I wonder what he is like when addressing the players?

I heard he uses pictures of dogs barking at sheep to get his point across

MN5

@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

27 Tests into Razors tenure and nobody other than Beaudy and DMAC has started at 10.

That stat is obscene

kiwiinmelb

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

Devlin gone off on them.

I don't get Devlin's call for the assistant coaches to get sacked but keep Razor in his job, a call that has been made on here by some as well. Razor is the boss, the buck stops with him.

Probably because Fozzie was afforded that , he thinks that’s the acceptable way of changing things up without going the full sacking

antipodean

Another game confirming my beliefs:
The team is poorly selected. Poorly coached. Poorly lead

Razor is an idiot. His assistants are massively out of their depth.

And nothing will signify change from this erosion of excellence, this slide into mediocrity until Ardie's performance is reflected in his selection.

SouthernMann

We have a whole lot of players who are all at very similar levels. Or there is a lack of trust in guys who should get a go.

We just need to roll the dice on some lads.

The treatment of Reuben Love is such a joke. If he is rated. Give the kid a go. At the momemt he is just an exceptionally expensive dirt tracker. Run him at 10. See if it works.

I want to see Super teams. Develop bench specialists. Then the ABs pick bench specialists. I think of guys like Hurley, Fakatava, Tosi, Aumua/Taukei'aho. Guys who can lift the intensity. Not the next man up. Paddy T another classic example at lock (although will.always start for the Blues).

It is nuts that ALB is considered a guy who is seen as a worthwhile option to come on with 30 to go. Who are our misfilders who csn terroise tired teams? Or an outside back who can do the same.

Why are we picking lumbering or slow outside backs. Is LF fast enough to be a winger? If not. Don’t play him there. Pick him as a centre.

We need to be more open in trying things. Whether it is Love, Tangitau, Fakatava, bringing back Papali’i, thinking whether the captain is the best player in his position or if Savea is best suited to wearing no 20.

We also need to consider whether more needs to be intvested invested into having the ABXV play more. The Maori side is important from a heritage perspective. It just excludes a lot of players from a mid-season high performance perspective.

We need a team picked on form. Not just on continuity of selection. Players who deserve to be picked should be. Players who should be dropped need to be.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks 2025