All Blacks 2025
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@Grooter said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Given Razor's first test was against England, you can make some reasonable comparisons. The 23s:
England in Dunedin 2024/England in London 2025-
Ethan de Groot
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Codie Taylor
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Tyrel Lomax/Fletcher Newell
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Scott Barrett
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Patrick Tuipulotu/Josh Lord
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Samipeni Finau/Simon Parker
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Dalton Papalii/Ardie Savea
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Ardie Savea/Peter Lakai
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TJ Perenara/Cam Roigard
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Damian McKenzie/Beauden Barrett
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Mark Telea/Leicester Fainga'anuku
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Jordie Barrett/Quinn Tupaea
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Rieko Ioane/Billy Proctor
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Sevu Reece/Leroy Carter
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Stephen Perofeta/Will Jordan
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Asafo Aumua/Samisoni Taukei'aho
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Ofa Tu'ungafasi/Tamaiti Williams
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Fletcher Newell/Pasilio Tosi
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Tupou Vaa'i/Sam Darry
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Luke Jacobson/Wallace Sititi
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Finlay Christie/Cortez Ratima
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Anton Lienert-Brown
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Beauden Barrett/Damian McKenzie
Obviously injuries play a part, but I honestly think if anything sums up that things are going wrong, it is that 18 months down the line from Razor's first test, he still has Anton Lienert-Brown filling the 22 jersey.
Outside of that, despite the criticism, they have actually managed to blood a lot of players, even if it has been due to injuries, the issue is, a lot of them don't seem to be very good. The debutants in the Razor era:
Cortez Ratima - Could/should feasibly end up fifth in the pecking order by the next international window
Billy Proctor - Incredibly underwhelming given the hype
Noah Hotham - Jury massively still out
George Bell - Hardly used since
Wallace Sititi - Star burned early, but has not been great this year
Pasilio Tosi - Think he has been a success
Sam Darry - Rated as our sixth best lock
Harry Plummer - Gone
Peter Lakai - After a near flawless debut, hardly sighted until the EOYT this year
Ruben Love - LOL
Fabian Holland - Stevie Wonder could see his talent
Christian Lio-Willie - Solid v France then done away with
Du'Plessis Kirifi - Unlikely to be an All Black next year
Ollie Norris - Looks a prospect
Timoci Tavatavanawai - Given injury, tough to say how his season may have ended up, but the mafia chose ALB on the bench ahead of him in Argentina so...
Brodie McAllister - Barring an injury crisis won't play again for the All Blacks
Simon Parker - Has underwhelmed
Leroy Carter - Good solid start, but his long-term prospects don't appear strongOverwhelmingly, this seems to be a case of quality, not quantity. There are several things here. Is this poor talent ID? Is this poor coaching? Is this poor gameplan?
Probably a combination? I could be wrong, but I don't imagine there is actually a heck of a lot of technical coaching occuring at the international level - I imagine that happens at club level before you actually reach the top level. The ABs not being able to pass under pressure is not the fault of the coaches from a coaching perspective, but more a selection perspective.
The question is whether the guys not selected are much better? Given we have cycled through so many players, the chance of say Ruben Love or Hoskins Sotutu coming in and shining in this environment feels extraordinarily slim, and I don't know enough to explain why. Is it a case of Super Rugby not preparing guys for test rugby or is this squarely on the coaches? As @Bones says, Proctor particularly just looked like an obvious upgrade to the regular punter.I have no doubt the All Blacks will eventually get back to the top of the pile, because these things are cyclical, but I suspect there will be some really interesting takes of what is happening in NZR right now from many different people in ten years time, and given difference of opinion, we may never truly get an answer.
Love would've been better off playing 7 or 8 rounds of npc as Wellingtons 10 than his 20 minutes on the wing during the Rugby championship
Then the coaches might have to actually give him a chance in one of his actual positions for more than 3 minutes at the end of a loss and couldn't keep picking Jordan and Beauden.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
The list of assistant coaches who would be willing to work with Robertson must be low. He's exhausted nearly everyone from the Crusaders system.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
The list of assistant coaches who would be willing to work with Robertson must be low. He's exhausted nearly everyone from the Crusaders system.
He doesn't get to choose. I want him to feel uncomfortable, he's been far too comfortable. Someone higher up should choose. Jamie Joseph will probably be one, a guy who seems no nonsense and bled black when he was a player.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
The list of assistant coaches who would be willing to work with Robertson must be low. He's exhausted nearly everyone from the Crusaders system.
Floss would probably rather be in NZ?
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
To be honest, I'm sort of OK with it, the more of the rugby public that realise how diabolical things have gotten under this coaching group, the more pressure NZR will be under to move them on before the next RWC. Doing Gods work @mariner4life
Doesn't matter what we think or want, there is no way this group will be moved on. Realistically not sure any of us should want that, would cause more problems than it would fix.
Back to defending the status quo, no matter how shit it is.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
Stop stressing everyone, Mounga will be back soon !
I wish there was a way we could tag such incendiary posts with an evil eye icon...
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
The list of assistant coaches who would be willing to work with Robertson must be low. He's exhausted nearly everyone from the Crusaders system.
He doesn't get to choose. I want him to feel uncomfortable, he's been far too comfortable. Someone higher up should choose. Jamie Joseph will probably be one, a guy who seems no nonsense and bled black when he was a player.
the coaching team is too samey samey.
On the bright side, didn't Foster's team improve dramatically when his assistant coaches were replaced?! (And when they had COVID but we won't mention that). -
@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
Our loose forwards are fucking soft and nobody has mongrel. We need a couple blokes with some screws loose.
While normally I'd fully endorse an uncivilised descent into a psychopathic violent 80 minute frenzy, it doesn't sound like such a good idea in this age of tv cameras everywhere, large onfield screens, screaming TMOs and CARDS CARDS CARDS..
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
The list of assistant coaches who would be willing to work with Robertson must be low. He's exhausted nearly everyone from the Crusaders system.
He doesn't get to choose. I want him to feel uncomfortable, he's been far too comfortable. Someone higher up should choose. Jamie Joseph will probably be one, a guy who seems no nonsense and bled black when he was a player.
the coaching team is too samey samey.
On the bright side, didn't Foster's team improve dramatically when his assistant coaches were replaced?! (And when they had COVID but we won't mention that).Fozz had COVID and Joe coached us to a victory...
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Fozz had COVID and Joe coached us to a victory...
And didn't it look like a Joe-coached well-drilled team?! It was remarkable.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Fozz had COVID and Joe coached us to a victory...
And didn't it look like a Joe-coached well-drilled team?! It was remarkable.
Someone call Joe, tell him whatever he wants we will do to get him on board
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
The list of assistant coaches who would be willing to work with Robertson must be low. He's exhausted nearly everyone from the Crusaders system.
I'd be more worried about the people who've been sounded out to be Assistants and run for the hills.
Would you want "Assistant AB Coach under Scott Robinson" on your CV right now?
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Fozz had COVID and Joe coached us to a victory...
And didn't it look like a Joe-coached well-drilled team?! It was remarkable.
Someone call Joe, tell him whatever he wants we will do to get him on board
Thing is, I'm beginning to think he is better as an assistant coach. Someone (an Irish fan) I think, said he was a very good coach but a so-so selector and maybe there is something in that. I find it pretty hard to gauge him now, with the Wallabies, depth-problems and all.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
The list of assistant coaches who would be willing to work with Robertson must be low. He's exhausted nearly everyone from the Crusaders system.
He doesn't get to choose. I want him to feel uncomfortable, he's been far too comfortable. Someone higher up should choose. Jamie Joseph will probably be one, a guy who seems no nonsense and bled black when he was a player.
Given Leon McDonald lasted two months as an assistant in this regime, I'd give Joseph two days tops.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Given Leon McDonald lasted two months as an assistant in this regime, I'd give Joseph two days tops.
Yes but Joseph would give out more than a head butt. Would you like to argue with him? I wouldn't.
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But yeah there's very little chance these two could work alongside each other.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
The list of assistant coaches who would be willing to work with Robertson must be low. He's exhausted nearly everyone from the Crusaders system.
He doesn't get to choose. I want him to feel uncomfortable, he's been far too comfortable. Someone higher up should choose. Jamie Joseph will probably be one, a guy who seems no nonsense and bled black when he was a player.
the coaching team is too samey samey.
On the bright side, didn't Foster's team improve dramatically when his assistant coaches were replaced?! (And when they had COVID but we won't mention that).Fozz had COVID and Joe coached us to a victory...
Foster wanted Joe and Ryan from Day 1 start, but didn't get them.
Nothing to suggest Robertson hasn't got the people he wanted from the start, but with the shambles that is NZR, who knows?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Fozz had COVID and Joe coached us to a victory...
And didn't it look like a Joe-coached well-drilled team?! It was remarkable.
Someone call Joe, tell him whatever he wants we will do to get him on board
Thing is, I'm beginning to think he is better as an assistant coach. Someone (an Irish fan) I think, said he was a very good coach but a so-so selector and maybe there is something in that. I find it pretty hard to gauge him now, with the Wallabies, depth-problems and all.
Fire Razor and anyone Joe has beef with. Elevate Jamie Joseph and Schmidt into the setup. Jamie is a tough bastard who won't stand for the team bringing shame on the jersey
