All Blacks 2025
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
O'Gara? Head coach at La Rochelle. Not a national team but I'd hire him.
Would be an upgrade. Would he come?
I think last year or earlier he indicated some interest to returning to NZ in some form, but, and an EU/Irish poster can provide more info, wasn't there mention of him as a potential future Irish head coach?
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Why not Vern Cotter? He went overseas, did his time, and has come back a better coach. We should be rewarding this IMO.
He managed to turn the Blues into a talented but soft team, into a side that barely went backwards and grinded out tough wins. He turned two players in Hoskins & Akira (who we are told are uncoachable) into being the best in their positions in NZ. Ofa had his best year ever. Helped turn Darry into an AB. Beehre, Fusitua, Cam Christie are growing into future ABs.
Maybe if he got to work with the likes of Parker, Lakai, Vaa'i, etc. he could help them reach their full potential as he's proven to do with many other players...
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@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
Why not Vern Cotter? He went overseas, did his time, and has come back a better coach. We should be rewarding this IMO.
He managed to turn the Blues into a talented but soft team, into a side that barely went backwards and grinded out tough wins. He turned two players in Hoskins & Akira (who we are told are uncoachable) into being the best in their positions in NZ. Ofa had his best year ever. Helped turn Darry into an AB. Beehre, Fusitua, Cam Christie are growing into future ABs.
Maybe if he got to work with the likes of Parker, Lakai, Vaa'i, etc. he could help them reach their full potential as he's proven to do with many other players...
Good points, but I can't see him and Ryan being in the same coaching team though, can you?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
Why not Vern Cotter? He went overseas, did his time, and has come back a better coach. We should be rewarding this IMO.
He managed to turn the Blues into a talented but soft team, into a side that barely went backwards and grinded out tough wins. He turned two players in Hoskins & Akira (who we are told are uncoachable) into being the best in their positions in NZ. Ofa had his best year ever. Helped turn Darry into an AB. Beehre, Fusitua, Cam Christie are growing into future ABs.
Maybe if he got to work with the likes of Parker, Lakai, Vaa'i, etc. he could help them reach their full potential as he's proven to do with many other players...
Good points, but I can't see him and Ryan being in the same coaching team though, can you?
Probably not. But NZRU needs to put their foot down here. (which I have no faith in)
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@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
Why not Vern Cotter? He went overseas, did his time, and has come back a better coach. We should be rewarding this IMO.
He managed to turn the Blues into a talented but soft team, into a side that barely went backwards and grinded out tough wins. He turned two players in Hoskins & Akira (who we are told are uncoachable) into being the best in their positions in NZ. Ofa had his best year ever. Helped turn Darry into an AB. Beehre, Fusitua, Cam Christie are growing into future ABs.
Maybe if he got to work with the likes of Parker, Lakai, Vaa'i, etc. he could help them reach their full potential as he's proven to do with many other players...
Good points, but I can't see him and Ryan being in the same coaching team though, can you?
Probably not. But NZRU needs to put their foot down here. (which I have no faith in)
I’m really not sure why people think Jamie Joseph and Vern Crotter are viable alternatives. Between them they have one domestic title and tier 2 international experience (yes Scotland when vern crotter was coaching them may have well be tier 2).
If you think Robertson wasn’t ready for international coaching, not sure how those two qualify
Crotter had a great squad in Scotland and turned it into a muddling mess and wasted a great generation of players. One super rugby season doesn’t mean a lot I’m afraid
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
Why not Vern Cotter? He went overseas, did his time, and has come back a better coach. We should be rewarding this IMO.
He managed to turn the Blues into a talented but soft team, into a side that barely went backwards and grinded out tough wins. He turned two players in Hoskins & Akira (who we are told are uncoachable) into being the best in their positions in NZ. Ofa had his best year ever. Helped turn Darry into an AB. Beehre, Fusitua, Cam Christie are growing into future ABs.
Maybe if he got to work with the likes of Parker, Lakai, Vaa'i, etc. he could help them reach their full potential as he's proven to do with many other players...
Good points, but I can't see him and Ryan being in the same coaching team though, can you?
Ryan literally starting out working at the international level with Cotter...
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
One super rugby season doesn’t mean a lot I’m afraid
As we're finding out to our cost, seven Super Rugby titles in a row doesn't mean a lot either.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
One super rugby season doesn’t mean a lot I’m afraid
As we're finding out to our cost, seven Super Rugby titles in a row doesn't mean a lot either.
I completely agree. International domestic and club experience with multiple titles is what is needed. Someone outside of the NZR influence
But Crotter, who had an international success rate of 0% against the ABs, South Africa, England, Australia, 25% against France and Ireland, 33% against Wales isn’t the answer.
And Jospeh who has only had one season, I repeat, one season, where his Super Rugby or International side has a positive points differential, is also not the answer
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I’m really not sure why people think Jamie Joseph and Vern Crotter are viable alternatives. Between them they have one domestic title and tier 2 international experience (yes Scotland when vern crotter was coaching them may have well be tier 2).
If you think Robertson wasn’t ready for international coaching, not sure how those two qualify
Crotter had a great squad in Scotland and turned it into a muddling mess and wasted a great generation of players. One super rugby season doesn’t mean a lot I’m afraid
It's the experience more than anything. Coached in the UK, France, Fiji, NZ, and I think that's valuable. Our best coach ever Steve Hansen went 10 Wins and 20 Losses coaching Wales.
Vern took over Leon who couldn't win with the Blues so clearly an improvement. And got far more out of his players at the Blues than anyone else has managed to in a long, long time.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
Ryan literally starting out working at the international level with Cotter...
Thank you, didn't put that one together.
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Well, who is the best performing Kiwi coach out there at the moment?
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I completely agree. International domestic and club experience with multiple titles is what is needed.
Who do you have in mind?
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@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
I’m really not sure why people think Jamie Joseph and Vern Crotter are viable alternatives. Between them they have one domestic title and tier 2 international experience (yes Scotland when vern crotter was coaching them may have well be tier 2).
If you think Robertson wasn’t ready for international coaching, not sure how those two qualify
Crotter had a great squad in Scotland and turned it into a muddling mess and wasted a great generation of players. One super rugby season doesn’t mean a lot I’m afraid
It's the experience more than anything. Coached in the UK, France, Fiji, NZ, and I think that's valuable. Our best coach ever Steve Hansen went 10 Wins and 20 Losses coaching Wales.
Vern took over Leon who couldn't win with the Blues so clearly an improvement. And got far more out of his players at the Blues than anyone else has managed to in a long, long time.
What’s the difference between that argument for the Blues players and what Robertson did at the crusaders? Which is not particularly arguably, a far greater achievement in terms of turning a squad around and developing players.
Hansen also landed into a role surrounded by the greatest coaching set up of all time. I think a lot of quality coaches could have somewhat Hansen did
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I completely agree. International domestic and club experience with multiple titles is what is needed.
Who do you have in mind?
I honestly don’t know. The main point of my argument is we can’t replace shit with shit.
Old heads like Deans, Mitchell are the only names that spring to mind and I’m not sure either would want or have the mentality right now to coach the all blacks
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Well, who is the best performing Kiwi coach out there at the moment?
Tony Brown
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Hypothetically. I just doubt Vernabll would be accepted by NZ Rugby fans. Even if it won games regularly.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I honestly don’t know. The main point of my argument is we can’t replace shit with shit.
Need to be more practical than that, though.
As mentioned above, experience is critical - not just the environment but ability to take a side forward and instill a culture. Some coaches thrive at Test level when given access to the talent pool unavailable to them at lower levels.
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What’s the difference between that argument for the Blues players and what Robertson did at the crusaders? Which is not particularly arguably, a far greater achievement in terms of turning a squad around and developing players.
Hansen also landed into a role surrounded by the greatest coaching set up of all time. I think a lot of quality coaches could have somewhat Hansen did
I'm not saying Razor should be sacked for what it's worth... even though he's been crap. I think there's a good reason why we've never previously had an AB head coach with zero international experience (until Razor).
Agree Scotland were mediocre under him, but I think there's some value in being in the 6N and having to prepare for those teams every week. Scotland also don't have the talent hence why they were importing the likes of Sean Maitland, WP Nel, John Hardie, etc.
