All Blacks 2025
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
One super rugby season doesn’t mean a lot I’m afraid
As we're finding out to our cost, seven Super Rugby titles in a row doesn't mean a lot either.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
One super rugby season doesn’t mean a lot I’m afraid
As we're finding out to our cost, seven Super Rugby titles in a row doesn't mean a lot either.
I completely agree. International domestic and club experience with multiple titles is what is needed. Someone outside of the NZR influence
But Crotter, who had an international success rate of 0% against the ABs, South Africa, England, Australia, 25% against France and Ireland, 33% against Wales isn’t the answer.
And Jospeh who has only had one season, I repeat, one season, where his Super Rugby or International side has a positive points differential, is also not the answer
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I’m really not sure why people think Jamie Joseph and Vern Crotter are viable alternatives. Between them they have one domestic title and tier 2 international experience (yes Scotland when vern crotter was coaching them may have well be tier 2).
If you think Robertson wasn’t ready for international coaching, not sure how those two qualify
Crotter had a great squad in Scotland and turned it into a muddling mess and wasted a great generation of players. One super rugby season doesn’t mean a lot I’m afraid
It's the experience more than anything. Coached in the UK, France, Fiji, NZ, and I think that's valuable. Our best coach ever Steve Hansen went 10 Wins and 20 Losses coaching Wales.
Vern took over Leon who couldn't win with the Blues so clearly an improvement. And got far more out of his players at the Blues than anyone else has managed to in a long, long time.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
Ryan literally starting out working at the international level with Cotter...
Thank you, didn't put that one together.
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Well, who is the best performing Kiwi coach out there at the moment?
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I completely agree. International domestic and club experience with multiple titles is what is needed.
Who do you have in mind?
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@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
I’m really not sure why people think Jamie Joseph and Vern Crotter are viable alternatives. Between them they have one domestic title and tier 2 international experience (yes Scotland when vern crotter was coaching them may have well be tier 2).
If you think Robertson wasn’t ready for international coaching, not sure how those two qualify
Crotter had a great squad in Scotland and turned it into a muddling mess and wasted a great generation of players. One super rugby season doesn’t mean a lot I’m afraid
It's the experience more than anything. Coached in the UK, France, Fiji, NZ, and I think that's valuable. Our best coach ever Steve Hansen went 10 Wins and 20 Losses coaching Wales.
Vern took over Leon who couldn't win with the Blues so clearly an improvement. And got far more out of his players at the Blues than anyone else has managed to in a long, long time.
What’s the difference between that argument for the Blues players and what Robertson did at the crusaders? Which is not particularly arguably, a far greater achievement in terms of turning a squad around and developing players.
Hansen also landed into a role surrounded by the greatest coaching set up of all time. I think a lot of quality coaches could have somewhat Hansen did
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I completely agree. International domestic and club experience with multiple titles is what is needed.
Who do you have in mind?
I honestly don’t know. The main point of my argument is we can’t replace shit with shit.
Old heads like Deans, Mitchell are the only names that spring to mind and I’m not sure either would want or have the mentality right now to coach the all blacks
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Well, who is the best performing Kiwi coach out there at the moment?
Tony Brown
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Hypothetically. I just doubt Vernabll would be accepted by NZ Rugby fans. Even if it won games regularly.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I honestly don’t know. The main point of my argument is we can’t replace shit with shit.
Need to be more practical than that, though.
As mentioned above, experience is critical - not just the environment but ability to take a side forward and instill a culture. Some coaches thrive at Test level when given access to the talent pool unavailable to them at lower levels.
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What’s the difference between that argument for the Blues players and what Robertson did at the crusaders? Which is not particularly arguably, a far greater achievement in terms of turning a squad around and developing players.
Hansen also landed into a role surrounded by the greatest coaching set up of all time. I think a lot of quality coaches could have somewhat Hansen did
I'm not saying Razor should be sacked for what it's worth... even though he's been crap. I think there's a good reason why we've never previously had an AB head coach with zero international experience (until Razor).
Agree Scotland were mediocre under him, but I think there's some value in being in the 6N and having to prepare for those teams every week. Scotland also don't have the talent hence why they were importing the likes of Sean Maitland, WP Nel, John Hardie, etc.
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@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
Hypothetically. I just doubt Vernabll would be accepted by NZ Rugby fans. Even if it won games regularly.
Yeah nah. Blues fans are also NZ Rugby fans too and winning with relentless power will be taken over losing with confusion and malaise.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
Hypothetically. I just doubt Vernabll would be accepted by NZ Rugby fans. Even if it won games regularly.
Yeah nah. Blues fans are also NZ Rugby fans too and winning with power will be taken over losing with confusion and malaise.
The Blues didn't exactly play 10 man rugby. They scored some great tries in their championship season. But their play was founded in strong fundamental forward play and solid game management from 10. If anyone doesn't want that right now I don't know what to say to you
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@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
we've never previously had an AB head coach with zero international experience
That doesn't sound true...
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
Hypothetically. I just doubt Vernabll would be accepted by NZ Rugby fans. Even if it won games regularly.
Yeah nah. Blues fans are also NZ Rugby fans too and winning with power will be taken over losing with confusion and malaise.
The Blues didn't exactly play 10 man rugby. They scored some great tries in their championship season. But their play was founded in strong fundamental forward play and solid game management from 10. If anyone doesn't want that right now I don't know what to say to you
Solid game management from a 10 is the key point.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
we've never previously had an AB head coach with zero international experience
That doesn't sound true...
Sorry you're right. Post-Wayne Smith in 2000 it's been needed.
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Is Rennie in the frame?
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
Is Rennie in the frame?
Right now? No one is in the frame. Robertson will not get sacked.
No coach with ambition of being the head coach should want to be his assistant either. He’s stubborn and nothing is changing
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
Is Rennie in the frame?
Right now? No one is in the frame. Robertson will not get sacked.
No coach with ambition of being the head coach should want to be his assistant either. He’s stubborn and nothing is changing
So do we just watch the standing and reputation of our team go down the toilet for 2 more years until Razor gets the boot at the end of a disastrous RWC campaign?
