All Blacks 2025
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Well, who is the best performing Kiwi coach out there at the moment?
Tony Brown
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Hypothetically. I just doubt Vernabll would be accepted by NZ Rugby fans. Even if it won games regularly.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I honestly don’t know. The main point of my argument is we can’t replace shit with shit.
Need to be more practical than that, though.
As mentioned above, experience is critical - not just the environment but ability to take a side forward and instill a culture. Some coaches thrive at Test level when given access to the talent pool unavailable to them at lower levels.
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What’s the difference between that argument for the Blues players and what Robertson did at the crusaders? Which is not particularly arguably, a far greater achievement in terms of turning a squad around and developing players.
Hansen also landed into a role surrounded by the greatest coaching set up of all time. I think a lot of quality coaches could have somewhat Hansen did
I'm not saying Razor should be sacked for what it's worth... even though he's been crap. I think there's a good reason why we've never previously had an AB head coach with zero international experience (until Razor).
Agree Scotland were mediocre under him, but I think there's some value in being in the 6N and having to prepare for those teams every week. Scotland also don't have the talent hence why they were importing the likes of Sean Maitland, WP Nel, John Hardie, etc.
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@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
Hypothetically. I just doubt Vernabll would be accepted by NZ Rugby fans. Even if it won games regularly.
Yeah nah. Blues fans are also NZ Rugby fans too and winning with relentless power will be taken over losing with confusion and malaise.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
Hypothetically. I just doubt Vernabll would be accepted by NZ Rugby fans. Even if it won games regularly.
Yeah nah. Blues fans are also NZ Rugby fans too and winning with power will be taken over losing with confusion and malaise.
The Blues didn't exactly play 10 man rugby. They scored some great tries in their championship season. But their play was founded in strong fundamental forward play and solid game management from 10. If anyone doesn't want that right now I don't know what to say to you
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@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
we've never previously had an AB head coach with zero international experience
That doesn't sound true...
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@SouthernMann said in All Blacks 2025:
Hypothetically. I just doubt Vernabll would be accepted by NZ Rugby fans. Even if it won games regularly.
Yeah nah. Blues fans are also NZ Rugby fans too and winning with power will be taken over losing with confusion and malaise.
The Blues didn't exactly play 10 man rugby. They scored some great tries in their championship season. But their play was founded in strong fundamental forward play and solid game management from 10. If anyone doesn't want that right now I don't know what to say to you
Solid game management from a 10 is the key point.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
we've never previously had an AB head coach with zero international experience
That doesn't sound true...
Sorry you're right. Post-Wayne Smith in 2000 it's been needed.
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Is Rennie in the frame?
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
Is Rennie in the frame?
Right now? No one is in the frame. Robertson will not get sacked.
No coach with ambition of being the head coach should want to be his assistant either. He’s stubborn and nothing is changing
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
Is Rennie in the frame?
Right now? No one is in the frame. Robertson will not get sacked.
No coach with ambition of being the head coach should want to be his assistant either. He’s stubborn and nothing is changing
So do we just watch the standing and reputation of our team go down the toilet for 2 more years until Razor gets the boot at the end of a disastrous RWC campaign?
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The only practical way forward would be to:
Get rid of B Barrett, Savea, ALB, Reece
Fire Holland
New attack coach
New captain, S Barrett has earn his spot backSuper rugby teams are strong armed into developing a 6,10, and 15 for the all blacks. Meaning Love starts all games at 10 or 15.. Josh Jacomb is forced into the Highlander’s squad to start every match.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Razor needs to be put on notice by losing all his assistants except Ryan
The list of assistant coaches who would be willing to work with Robertson must be low. He's exhausted nearly everyone from the Crusaders system.
He doesn't get to choose. I want him to feel uncomfortable, he's been far too comfortable. Someone higher up should choose. Jamie Joseph will probably be one, a guy who seems no nonsense and bled black when he was a player.
Given Leon McDonald lasted two months as an assistant in this regime, I'd give Joseph two days tops.
What would his role be anyway? Been a long time since he was an assistant coach
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@hikastags said in All Blacks 2025:
I’m really not sure why people think Jamie Joseph and Vern Crotter are viable alternatives. Between them they have one domestic title and tier 2 international experience (yes Scotland when vern crotter was coaching them may have well be tier 2).
If you think Robertson wasn’t ready for international coaching, not sure how those two qualify
Crotter had a great squad in Scotland and turned it into a muddling mess and wasted a great generation of players. One super rugby season doesn’t mean a lot I’m afraid
It's the experience more than anything. Coached in the UK, France, Fiji, NZ, and I think that's valuable. Our best coach ever Steve Hansen went 10 Wins and 20 Losses coaching Wales.
Vern took over Leon who couldn't win with the Blues so clearly an improvement. And got far more out of his players at the Blues than anyone else has managed to in a long, long time.
I like this post as it is a good place to rewind to, remembering that Tony Brown had not agreed to work with South Africa until after Razor was appointed the AB coach.
I'm going to ignore the option of Razor joining the AB coaching team at some point - which I'm sure was an option offered to him.
Let's say that NZRU is a competent organization and that they agreed to appoint the next coach either in 2021 or post WC in 2023. Let's say 2023.
We could have ended up with Schmidt, Cotter, Ryan, and Brown as the AB coaching team....
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@nostrildamus Yeah, come 2027 he’ll be in the frame for Ireland when his contract expires at La Rochelle just before Farrell’s does at the RWC.
He will no doubt coach Ireland at some point and also has currency in France now. His coaching staff is mostly French so he probably wouldn’t be bringing a team with him if he did return to NZ. So it would likely be a choice of family lifestyle - his youngest would be 13-ish come 2027, oldest around 19 - and then if he could get a mix of coaches, whether he’s an AC or HC that he’d be happy with.
If he was a success at the ABs he walks into Ireland, if he isn’t he probably still does. But it wouldn’t work the other way around.
