All Blacks 2025
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
The way they talked about Hoskins and how he doesn't play both sides of the ball reminded me of the way Mitch talked about Cully and how he held the ball in the wrong hand. Rude and disrespectful
That was absolute bullshit however Mitchell got vilified for doing exactly what people wish Razor would do to Beauden Barrett ( jettison a guy whose electrifying pace had dropped just a tad )
Fuck no. Cullen would have had to have the better part of a decade of decline first for it to be the same thing.
Cullen was mid 20s when he was dropped, Barrett is 34.
We used to be ruthless (arguably in that case too ruthless), but now? Now we are pathetic.At the time I thought it was ridiculous. In retrospect it makes some sense. Although Cullen and Jonah bowing out around the same time was devastating as a fan.
....and there's absolutely no denying Barrett is WELL past his use by date.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
How are Lakai and Sititi there based on both sides of the ball?
You have an ex-All Black loose forward selecting them...
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One thing I don't get about the 2025 ABs is how they squander leads so easily. Even if they jumped out to a 28 point lead early in a test match the opposition would be within 7 points with 20 to play, you can guarantee it.
They just can't control a game after having built a lead. Even if they were up 19-0 at HT on Saturday you know that England would have chipped away at that in the second half and the game would be on the line at the business end of the match. They just can't kill games or opponents off.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
One thing I don't get about the 2025 ABs is how they squander leads so easily. Even if they jumped out to a 28 point lead early in a test match the opposition would be within 7 points with 20 to play, you can guarantee it.
They just can't control a game after having built a lead. Even if they were up 19-0 at HT on Saturday you know that England would have chipped away at that in the second half and the game would be on the line at the business end of the match. They just can't kill games or opponents off.
The reason we squander leads so easy is because we dont play a style that can strangle other teams.
Our kicking from hand (and chase) for the most part is piss poor. Our high ball work is very poor and defensively the opposition wins the contact and gets a roll on far too often which means our defense is back-foot scrambling rather than front foot pressure defence.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
The way they talked about Hoskins and how he doesn't play both sides of the ball reminded me of the way Mitch talked about Cully and how he held the ball in the wrong hand. Rude and disrespectful
That was absolute bullshit however Mitchell got vilified for doing exactly what people wish Razor would do to Beauden Barrett ( jettison a guy whose electrifying pace had dropped just a tad )
It's far better for the jersey if we are looking back and thinking "what if" regarding a player being ushered out too early, than it is for a player to waaaaaay overstay his welcome.
Christian Cullen: 60 caps
Jeff Wilson: 60 Caps
Tama Umaga: 74 caps
Julian Savea: 54 caps
Sitaveni Sivivatu: 46 caps
Israel Dagg: 66 Caps
Cory Jane: 55 caps
Ben Smith: 84 CapsBeauden Barrett: 144 caps
It's disproportionate to his talent. Its egregious. Its transgressive.
He has had Cullens and Ben Smiths careers added together.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
The way they talked about Hoskins and how he doesn't play both sides of the ball reminded me of the way Mitch talked about Cully and how he held the ball in the wrong hand. Rude and disrespectful
That was absolute bullshit however Mitchell got vilified for doing exactly what people wish Razor would do to Beauden Barrett ( jettison a guy whose electrifying pace had dropped just a tad )
Fuck no. Cullen would have had to have the better part of a decade of decline first for it to be the same thing.
Cullen was mid 20s when he was dropped, Barrett is 34.
We used to be ruthless (arguably in that case too ruthless), but now? Now we are pathetic.At the time I thought it was ridiculous. In retrospect it makes some sense. Although Cullen and Jonah bowing out around the same time was devastating as a fan.
....and there's absolutely no denying Barrett is WELL past his use by date.
Beauden Barrett is Cristiano Ronaldo.
Dan Carter was Messi.
One relies on physical prowess, the other is still the best player in the world at walking pace.
Once Barretts legs were gone he was a beaten docket. He scored a load of intercepts, regathered chip and chases and his legs made him get the bounce of the ball. He NEVER had the top two inches.
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@Jet to be fair, prior to 2011, most ABs saw out their careers off shore, but from that period of 'greatness' we had several top drawer players that hit 100 caps.
Better to burn out than fade away.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet to be fair, prior to 2011, most ABs saw out their careers off shore, but from that period of 'greatness' we had several top drawer players that hit 100 caps.
Better to burn out than fade away.
I said that too.
Barrett is that dying ember on the fire and there's no more wood left.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet to be fair, prior to 2011, most ABs saw out their careers off shore, but from that period of 'greatness' we had several top drawer players that hit 100 caps.
Better to burn out than fade away.
I said that too.
Barrett is that dying ember on the fire and there's no more wood left.
And to think I laughed to myself sneeringly while Ireland foolishly clinged to an ancient Johnny Sexton through to 2023 RWC.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet to be fair, prior to 2011, most ABs saw out their careers off shore, but from that period of 'greatness' we had several top drawer players that hit 100 caps.
Better to burn out than fade away.
I said that too.
Barrett is that dying ember on the fire and there's no more wood left.
And to think I laughed to myself sneeringly while Ireland foolishly clinged to an ancient Johnny Sexton through to 2023 RWC.
.....more so when his game was much less reliant on freakish pace.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet to be fair, prior to 2011, most ABs saw out their careers off shore, but from that period of 'greatness' we had several top drawer players that hit 100 caps.
Better to burn out than fade away.
I said that too.
Barrett is that dying ember on the fire and there's no more wood left.
And to think I laughed to myself sneeringly while Ireland foolishly clinged to an ancient Johnny Sexton through to 2023 RWC.
Johnny was a thoughtful player though so he didn't rely on fading physicality to be effective. Beauden has always relied on his physical gifts
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet to be fair, prior to 2011, most ABs saw out their careers off shore, but from that period of 'greatness' we had several top drawer players that hit 100 caps.
Better to burn out than fade away.
I said that too.
Barrett is that dying ember on the fire and there's no more wood left.
And to think I laughed to myself sneeringly while Ireland foolishly clinged to an ancient Johnny Sexton through to 2023 RWC.
When BB was chasing back on Saturday, the leg movement was very Sexton-like. His legs are definitely gone. The recent ABs decline has coincided with the lack of ruthlessness in selections.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
The way they talked about Hoskins and how he doesn't play both sides of the ball reminded me of the way Mitch talked about Cully and how he held the ball in the wrong hand. Rude and disrespectful
That was absolute bullshit however Mitchell got vilified for doing exactly what people wish Razor would do to Beauden Barrett ( jettison a guy whose electrifying pace had dropped just a tad )
the thing is, for me, that drop is pace happened a few years ago, so not like cullen where it was a "this seaosn" deal, when was the last time he truely smoked someone with pure pace?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
The way they talked about Hoskins and how he doesn't play both sides of the ball reminded me of the way Mitch talked about Cully and how he held the ball in the wrong hand. Rude and disrespectful
That was absolute bullshit however Mitchell got vilified for doing exactly what people wish Razor would do to Beauden Barrett ( jettison a guy whose electrifying pace had dropped just a tad )
the thing is, for me, that drop is pace happened a few years ago, so not like cullen where it was a "this seaosn" deal, when was the last time he truely smoked someone with pure pace?
2019 perhaps ?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
The way they talked about Hoskins and how he doesn't play both sides of the ball reminded me of the way Mitch talked about Cully and how he held the ball in the wrong hand. Rude and disrespectful
That was absolute bullshit however Mitchell got vilified for doing exactly what people wish Razor would do to Beauden Barrett ( jettison a guy whose electrifying pace had dropped just a tad )
the thing is, for me, that drop is pace happened a few years ago, so not like cullen where it was a "this seaosn" deal, when was the last time he truely smoked someone with pure pace?
When has he purposely taken on the line?
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@nzzp “improvement” can be in the eye of the beholder somewhat and tracking over time there are so many more factors at play than just what happens whilst in an AB camp. Just the reality of things.
For example someone like Newell has improved out of sight for me but he’s not everyone’s cup of Milo. Vaa’i had his best year in 2024 after being a bits and pieces player prior, but like players in the past when the opportunity came they stepped up.
The Kaino example is an interesting one because did the major improvement come between 04 and 07 whilst he had very limited exposure to the AB environment? Then once he got his chance in 08 after Jerry left, the improvement was more incremental based on the test experience he was now exposed to more consistently.
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The back three has been awful at catching the ball
Clarke is decent and is probably the best in the world at taking a high ball running forward. So when fit he's a certainty on one wing
I think we need a second fullback on the other wing.
Some changes too the back three I would like to see next year:
- JRK as added as a winger
- ENS as a solid squad option who can cover both styles of wing (2nd fullback and power wing)
- I would like the coaches to entertain the idea that Jordan can be dropped for poor form
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
For example someone like Newell has improved out of sight for me but he’s not everyone’s cup of Milo.
Fair.
Hyperbole is our trade on the internet - I was needing a good spleen venting rant, which was achieved.
As you were.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
The back three has been awful at catching the ball
Clarke is decent and is probably the best in the world at taking a high ball running forward. So when fit he's a certainty on one wing
I think we need a second fullback on the other wing.
Some changes too the back three I would like to see next year:
- JRK as added as a winger
- ENS as a solid squad option who can cover both styles of wing (2nd fullback and power wing)
- I would like the coaches to entertain the idea that Jordan can be dropped for poor form
Whether Clarke is dropping or catching high balls he should be a certainty for his running game alone. Sucks that he went down because he looked to be running as freely and with some real starch as I’ve seen from him. I’m sure Tabgitau may feature but there’s some real work ons there and I don’t think you carry both him and Carter whilst we still have Clarke and we need the other skillsets on the right.
I think Narawa is not a bad 2nd fullback option but he is more winger as opposed to JRK who is solid at wing but a really good fullback in my view.
Agree on Jordan.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
The back three has been awful at catching the ball
Clarke is decent and is probably the best in the world at taking a high ball running forward. So when fit he's a certainty on one wing
I think we need a second fullback on the other wing.
Some changes too the back three I would like to see next year:
- JRK as added as a winger
- ENS as a solid squad option who can cover both styles of wing (2nd fullback and power wing)
- I would like the coaches to entertain the idea that Jordan can be dropped for poor form
I'm sure the coaches find the idea of dropping Jordan preposterous. We have another fullback in the squad in Love. I don't know why they won't try him at fullback and Jordan at 14. Not only can he not be dropped but they can't see themselves to move him from a position that doesn't seem to exploit his best talents but serves to expose his weaknesses
