All Blacks 2025
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet to be fair, prior to 2011, most ABs saw out their careers off shore, but from that period of 'greatness' we had several top drawer players that hit 100 caps.
Better to burn out than fade away.
I said that too.
Barrett is that dying ember on the fire and there's no more wood left.
And to think I laughed to myself sneeringly while Ireland foolishly clinged to an ancient Johnny Sexton through to 2023 RWC.
.....more so when his game was much less reliant on freakish pace.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet to be fair, prior to 2011, most ABs saw out their careers off shore, but from that period of 'greatness' we had several top drawer players that hit 100 caps.
Better to burn out than fade away.
I said that too.
Barrett is that dying ember on the fire and there's no more wood left.
And to think I laughed to myself sneeringly while Ireland foolishly clinged to an ancient Johnny Sexton through to 2023 RWC.
Johnny was a thoughtful player though so he didn't rely on fading physicality to be effective. Beauden has always relied on his physical gifts
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet to be fair, prior to 2011, most ABs saw out their careers off shore, but from that period of 'greatness' we had several top drawer players that hit 100 caps.
Better to burn out than fade away.
I said that too.
Barrett is that dying ember on the fire and there's no more wood left.
And to think I laughed to myself sneeringly while Ireland foolishly clinged to an ancient Johnny Sexton through to 2023 RWC.
When BB was chasing back on Saturday, the leg movement was very Sexton-like. His legs are definitely gone. The recent ABs decline has coincided with the lack of ruthlessness in selections.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
The way they talked about Hoskins and how he doesn't play both sides of the ball reminded me of the way Mitch talked about Cully and how he held the ball in the wrong hand. Rude and disrespectful
That was absolute bullshit however Mitchell got vilified for doing exactly what people wish Razor would do to Beauden Barrett ( jettison a guy whose electrifying pace had dropped just a tad )
the thing is, for me, that drop is pace happened a few years ago, so not like cullen where it was a "this seaosn" deal, when was the last time he truely smoked someone with pure pace?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
The way they talked about Hoskins and how he doesn't play both sides of the ball reminded me of the way Mitch talked about Cully and how he held the ball in the wrong hand. Rude and disrespectful
That was absolute bullshit however Mitchell got vilified for doing exactly what people wish Razor would do to Beauden Barrett ( jettison a guy whose electrifying pace had dropped just a tad )
the thing is, for me, that drop is pace happened a few years ago, so not like cullen where it was a "this seaosn" deal, when was the last time he truely smoked someone with pure pace?
2019 perhaps ?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
The way they talked about Hoskins and how he doesn't play both sides of the ball reminded me of the way Mitch talked about Cully and how he held the ball in the wrong hand. Rude and disrespectful
That was absolute bullshit however Mitchell got vilified for doing exactly what people wish Razor would do to Beauden Barrett ( jettison a guy whose electrifying pace had dropped just a tad )
the thing is, for me, that drop is pace happened a few years ago, so not like cullen where it was a "this seaosn" deal, when was the last time he truely smoked someone with pure pace?
When has he purposely taken on the line?
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@nzzp “improvement” can be in the eye of the beholder somewhat and tracking over time there are so many more factors at play than just what happens whilst in an AB camp. Just the reality of things.
For example someone like Newell has improved out of sight for me but he’s not everyone’s cup of Milo. Vaa’i had his best year in 2024 after being a bits and pieces player prior, but like players in the past when the opportunity came they stepped up.
The Kaino example is an interesting one because did the major improvement come between 04 and 07 whilst he had very limited exposure to the AB environment? Then once he got his chance in 08 after Jerry left, the improvement was more incremental based on the test experience he was now exposed to more consistently.
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The back three has been awful at catching the ball
Clarke is decent and is probably the best in the world at taking a high ball running forward. So when fit he's a certainty on one wing
I think we need a second fullback on the other wing.
Some changes too the back three I would like to see next year:
- JRK as added as a winger
- ENS as a solid squad option who can cover both styles of wing (2nd fullback and power wing)
- I would like the coaches to entertain the idea that Jordan can be dropped for poor form
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
For example someone like Newell has improved out of sight for me but he’s not everyone’s cup of Milo.
Fair.
Hyperbole is our trade on the internet - I was needing a good spleen venting rant, which was achieved.
As you were.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
The back three has been awful at catching the ball
Clarke is decent and is probably the best in the world at taking a high ball running forward. So when fit he's a certainty on one wing
I think we need a second fullback on the other wing.
Some changes too the back three I would like to see next year:
- JRK as added as a winger
- ENS as a solid squad option who can cover both styles of wing (2nd fullback and power wing)
- I would like the coaches to entertain the idea that Jordan can be dropped for poor form
Whether Clarke is dropping or catching high balls he should be a certainty for his running game alone. Sucks that he went down because he looked to be running as freely and with some real starch as I’ve seen from him. I’m sure Tabgitau may feature but there’s some real work ons there and I don’t think you carry both him and Carter whilst we still have Clarke and we need the other skillsets on the right.
I think Narawa is not a bad 2nd fullback option but he is more winger as opposed to JRK who is solid at wing but a really good fullback in my view.
Agree on Jordan.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
The back three has been awful at catching the ball
Clarke is decent and is probably the best in the world at taking a high ball running forward. So when fit he's a certainty on one wing
I think we need a second fullback on the other wing.
Some changes too the back three I would like to see next year:
- JRK as added as a winger
- ENS as a solid squad option who can cover both styles of wing (2nd fullback and power wing)
- I would like the coaches to entertain the idea that Jordan can be dropped for poor form
I'm sure the coaches find the idea of dropping Jordan preposterous. We have another fullback in the squad in Love. I don't know why they won't try him at fullback and Jordan at 14. Not only can he not be dropped but they can't see themselves to move him from a position that doesn't seem to exploit his best talents but serves to expose his weaknesses
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
For example someone like Newell has improved out of sight for me but he’s not everyone’s cup of Milo.
Fair.
Hyperbole is our trade on the internet - I was needing a good spleen venting rant, which was achieved.
As you were.
We love that sort of stuff on the Fern, and it appears Reddit do too…..
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp “improvement” can be in the eye of the beholder somewhat and tracking over time there are so many more factors at play than just what happens whilst in an AB camp. Just the reality of things.
For example someone like Newell has improved out of sight for me but he’s not everyone’s cup of Milo. Vaa’i had his best year in 2024 after being a bits and pieces player prior, but like players in the past when the opportunity came they stepped up.
The Kaino example is an interesting one because did the major improvement come between 04 and 07 whilst he had very limited exposure to the AB environment? Then once he got his chance in 08 after Jerry left, the improvement was more incremental based on the test experience he was now exposed to more consistently.
Newell was good in the first part to mid part of the year but his form has dropped off on this tour particularly at scrum time. Too bad Lomax is injured and basically failed to fire this year
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Some impact stats for the year:
Total Positive Impacts Per 80 Minutes
(Tries + Try Assists + Clean Breaks + Offloads + Defenders Beaten + Dominant Tackles + Turnovers Won)11.42 Dalton Papali'i
7.09 Cam Roigard
7.04 Wallace Sititi
7.0 Leicester Fainga'anuku
6.84 Will Jordan
6.78 Caleb Clarke
6.76 Sevu Reece
6.25 Ardie Savea
5.71 Emoni Narawa
5.42 Leroy CarterNegative Impacts Per 80 Minutes
(Turnovers lost + missed tackles + penalties conceded + yellow cards)
13.33 Kyle Preston
6.49 Timoci Tavatavanawai
5.39 Leicester Fainga'anuku
5.01 Tupou Vaa'i
4.75 Anton Lienert-Brown
4.38 Jordie Barrett
4.0 Sam Darry
3.98 Sevu Reece
3.89 Billy Proctor
3.84 Quinn TupaeaNet impacts per 80 minutes
( Postive impacts minus negative impacts )
11.42 Dalton Papali'i
4.76 Emoni Narawa
4.56 Ardie Savea
4.33 Cam Roigard
4.07 Caleb Clarke
3.90 Christian Lio Willie
3.86 Wallace Sititi
3.11 Will Jordan
2.78 Sevu Reece
2.3 Samisoni Taukei'aho -
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
because his reasoning about the slight drop in pace was sound.
I don't think it was sound at all. He was still the best fullback in the country at the time. If there were better fullbacks then his reasoning might have been sound. Blanco had a number of good years for France after his pace and flair had a slight drop.
Can someone please remind me who played 15 when we lost to Australia in 2003? IIRC MacDonald was chosen as first choice but he played in the MF.
Mils was at fullback. What was extra silly about that was that Mils played most of the season for the Blues at centre, yet they put Rangi in the centre and kept Mils at the back.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
because his reasoning about the slight drop in pace was sound.
I don't think it was sound at all. He was still the best fullback in the country at the time. If there were better fullbacks then his reasoning might have been sound. Blanco had a number of good years for France after his pace and flair had a slight drop.
Can someone please remind me who played 15 when we lost to Australia in 2003? IIRC MacDonald was chosen as first choice but he played in the MF.
Mils was at fullback. What was extra silly about that was that Mils played most of the season for the Blues at centre, yet they put Rangi in the centre and kept Mils at the back.
Was it that silly though when Mils had played most of the AB season at fullback and they wanted to keep the Blues back 3 in tact. @canefan Rangi wasn’t first choice fullback in 2003. Him being played at centre wasn’t an issue against the Boks in the QF
