All Blacks 2025
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta Was part of this being given unrealistic or impossible "work ons"?
No.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
I agree in principle with this. But, the only thing keeping people here is the chance to be an AB.
You can make far more money overseas, with far less pressure, and be treated very very well.
So, if you deem the environment to be toxic, and believe that the road back is blocked, and have a young family... I can easily see why someone would choose to stay out of the environment.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating; Paps is likely on a pretty good contract now, but that won't last without further selection. So if he buggers off overseas - and he would command a very good contract halfway between a WC - we may look back at this differently.
I think that goes for coaches too. The pressure and crap that comes their way does take its toll. Mitchell post 03 RWC talked about it. Henry in that post 07 period and the reapplying phase. Even the old stern tough headmaster felt the effects of it all. Foster in that last two years when it got fever pitched.
Who’d want it? There’s money and behind the scenes gigs that don’t have this sort of almost do or die pressure on it.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
I agree in principle with this. But, the only thing keeping people here is the chance to be an AB.
You can make far more money overseas, with far less pressure, and be treated very very well.
So, if you deem the environment to be toxic, and believe that the road back is blocked, and have a young family... I can easily see why someone would choose to stay out of the environment.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating; Paps is likely on a pretty good contract now, but that won't last without further selection. So if he buggers off overseas - and he would command a very good contract halfway between a WC - we may look back at this differently.
I think that goes for coaches too. The pressure and crap that comes their way does take its toll. Mitchell post 03 RWC talked about it. Henry in that post 07 period and the reapplying phase. Even the old stern tough headmaster felt the effects of it all. Foster in that last two years when it got fever pitched.
Who’d want it? There’s money and behind the scenes gigs that don’t have this sort of almost do or die pressure on it.
On the other hand there is no prestige from coaching a Japanese club team, other than the money and corporate perks. It's the same thing that keeps many talented people unhappily locked into academia.
Robertson has talked about his desire to win World Cups (plural) with different teams, which sounded like something an undergrad student might say about winning a noble prize and becoming a billionaire ... Walk before you can run ...
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
Robertson has talked about his desire to win World Cups (plural) with different teams, which sounded like something an undergrad student might say about winning a noble prize and becoming a billionaire ... Walk before you can run ...
That alone should have rung alarm bells at NZR HQ, but no.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
This thing about Love not being fast enough seems odd to me and seems to be cropping up more and more. He's certainly never looked to lack for pace and I'd be interested in what express fullbacks other top tier nations have (outside SA).
He looked really slow during this year's NPC. This did not strike me particularly during the 2025 SR.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
How many All Blacks would make a World XV at the moment?
Based on this seasons performances I'd say only players that would make a shortlist would be:
Taylor
RoigardNot sure they would be the outright best in their position though.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I get you might be pissed off but the sense of entitlement for a fringe All Black player to do that is a tad pathetic. Can you imagine anyone in any other serious job behaving like that?
Well, I've walked away from business clients as being associated with them would be bad for my business/career prospects.
Yes but I’m not sure the two are comparable. One is a smart business decision, the other is behaving like a brat. Dalton is a good player but he doesn’t have the personal accolades to be demanding anything from anyone
You asked the question, got an answer, then disregarded the answer
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I love this revisionism going on over the Ian Foster years. Those were bad years way worse than what is happening now. The All Blacks may struggle to put teams away now but at least they are getting themselves in a position to win and blowing it .
Alot of the Foster era losses we never fired a shot, were not in the game at any stage and looked way off the pace. Classic example being the mauling we took at Twickenham from the Boks vs the one at Wellington. At halftime at the caketin we were leading and the pundits were optimistic. At Twickenham we were humbled from start to finish.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
I agree in principle with this. But, the only thing keeping people here is the chance to be an AB.
You can make far more money overseas, with far less pressure, and be treated very very well.
So, if you deem the environment to be toxic, and believe that the road back is blocked, and have a young family... I can easily see why someone would choose to stay out of the environment.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating; Paps is likely on a pretty good contract now, but that won't last without further selection. So if he buggers off overseas - and he would command a very good contract halfway between a WC - we may look back at this differently.
I agree. If your priority is money and family, go overseas. But you do that like an adult. You say, Listen, thanks but I’m priorities long term financial success for my family and I think that’s best done elsewhere. Not throwing your toys because you and your mates (who really aren’t flash enough to behaving like this) dont get picked.
You speak like you know something. If not you can only presume like the rest of us. But there seems to be a lot of smoke emanating from numerous sources all of a sudden. And where there's smoke there's often fire. Trust is a two way street, and if these players feel trust is lacking it isn't unreasonable for them to want no part of a toxic situation
I’m not remotely implying I know anything. I’m just reading what’s been said here and the odd consensus that this is appropriate behaviour from a professional. That’s all I’m commenting on. The behaviour from a few blues players for their justifiable or unjustifiable lack of selection has been particularly childish. And if you behave like that when things don’t go your way, I’m not entirely sure why anyone is giving them any sympathy
It's not clear to me how he has behaved badly or even in a childish manner - he's not on Tiktok moaning about it.
We have heard a rumor that he refused promotion to the AB team.
He may have done that with the greatest of respect. For example, he may have said that he would prefer to stay with the ABXV team as the captain.
That seems the likely scenario right? I can’t imagine it was a “I don’t want to play for the ABs again under you (even if that is what he was thinking).” More of a, “Look I’m really enjoying leading this team, and think it is best for me to spend the week helping them prepare for our game rather than holding tackle bags for the week.”
Nowa I’m in two minds about whether that is highly reasonable and would happen even if say Foster was the coach given his age and stage and the fact he was captaining the XV, or whether this is a major red flag.
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
I love this revisionism going on over the Ian Foster years. Those were bad years way worse than what is happening now. The All Blacks may struggle to put teams away now but at least they are getting themselves in a position to win and blowing it .
Alot of the Foster era losses we never fired a shot, were not in the game at any stage and looked way off the pace. Classic example being the mauling we took at Twickenham from the Boks vs the one at Wellington. At halftime at the caketin we were leading and the pundits were optimistic. At Twickenham we were humbled from start to finish.
Tbh the ABs were not really controlling the game in Wellington in the first half despite the scoreline.
Jordie saved a certain try with a tackle on Kolbe, Reinach knocked on and blew another try.
Could've easily been 21-10 or something like that at HT.
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While people are right to be demanding change and improvement I think the whole fire everyone and burn the house down reaction is getting a bit out of hand. Even excellent All Black teams have found average England sides a big challenge at Twickenham and SA are clearly a team head and shoulders above everyone else at the moment. Argentina are a better side than the Wallabies now,
Things in the coaching setup need to be tweaked and some older players moved on but it is not the end of the All Blacks.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
I love this revisionism going on over the Ian Foster years. Those were bad years way worse than what is happening now. The All Blacks may struggle to put teams away now but at least they are getting themselves in a position to win and blowing it .
Alot of the Foster era losses we never fired a shot, were not in the game at any stage and looked way off the pace. Classic example being the mauling we took at Twickenham from the Boks vs the one at Wellington. At halftime at the caketin we were leading and the pundits were optimistic. At Twickenham we were humbled from start to finish.
Tbh the ABs were not really controlling the game in Wellington in the first half despite the scoreline.
Jordie saved a certain try with a tackle on Kolbe, Reinach knocked on and blew another try.
Could've easily been 21-10 or something like that at HT.
TBH in the Foster years it would have been but this All Black team at least manages to stay competitive for most of the match with arguably a worse group of players to select from.
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
I love this revisionism going on over the Ian Foster years. Those were bad years way worse than what is happening now. The All Blacks may struggle to put teams away now but at least they are getting themselves in a position to win and blowing it .
Alot of the Foster era losses we never fired a shot, were not in the game at any stage and looked way off the pace. Classic example being the mauling we took at Twickenham from the Boks vs the one at Wellington. At halftime at the caketin we were leading and the pundits were optimistic. At Twickenham we were humbled from start to finish.
Which one is the record loss again?
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2025:
I love this revisionism going on over the Ian Foster years. Those were bad years way worse than what is happening now. The All Blacks may struggle to put teams away now but at least they are getting themselves in a position to win and blowing it .
Alot of the Foster era losses we never fired a shot, were not in the game at any stage and looked way off the pace. Classic example being the mauling we took at Twickenham from the Boks vs the one at Wellington. At halftime at the caketin we were leading and the pundits were optimistic. At Twickenham we were humbled from start to finish.
Where is this revisionism of which you speak? I think most posters on here are well aware of the failings of the Fozzi era. Doesn't change the fact that he took as much of a battering in the media and from NZR/Robinson as any AB coach I can recall (no AB coach has ever been fired, and were it not for the players I think Fozz would have been the first), and by comparison only now is Razor feeling a little heat despite his less than glittering record over the last two years and the manner of play
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
I get you might be pissed off but the sense of entitlement for a fringe All Black player to do that is a tad pathetic. Can you imagine anyone in any other serious job behaving like that?
Well, I've walked away from business clients as being associated with them would be bad for my business/career prospects.
Yes but I’m not sure the two are comparable. One is a smart business decision, the other is behaving like a brat. Dalton is a good player but he doesn’t have the personal accolades to be demanding anything from anyone
You asked the question, got an answer, then disregarded the answer
He boo-boo'd, @booboo
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@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Brad Thorn made the news when he turned it down. Is there any other cases of guys actually saying no ?
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Brad Thorn made the news when he turned it down. Is there any other cases of guys actually saying no ?
Brad Thorn said no because he thought he wasn't ready yet didn't he? Not because of a dispute with management.
At the end of the day the majority of people will have to deal with sh1tty managers in their career at some point and often for extended periods. Passed over for promotion etc is a common gripe.
