All Blacks 2025
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
If you give a guy work ons and he does these, then you fail to pick him anyway, what message does that send? Could he take you at your word, or would he start to feel that he was being lied to and that you actually had no intention to give him another chance?
if you've ever worked on the door of a bar or club, this is the "sorry mate, not in those shoes" tactic. Look, we both know you're blind, but this is less likely to result in an argument and quite possibly a fight.
It is. Hoskins went and put in all the effort to go home and get some fucking great shoes too. That'd fuck me right off.
And regularly outplayed the guy picked ahead of him, once in a Super Rugby final.
And won player of the tourney didn't he?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
If you give a guy work ons and he does these, then you fail to pick him anyway, what message does that send? Could he take you at your word, or would he start to feel that he was being lied to and that you actually had no intention to give him another chance?
if you've ever worked on the door of a bar or club, this is the "sorry mate, not in those shoes" tactic. Look, we both know you're blind, but this is less likely to result in an argument and quite possibly a fight.
It is. Hoskins went and put in all the effort to go home and get some fucking great shoes too. That'd fuck me right off.
that happened to me once, i actually cracked up.
still didn't let him in, pulled a Razor
The "Clothes too casual" manouvre
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
If you give a guy work ons and he does these, then you fail to pick him anyway, what message does that send? Could he take you at your word, or would he start to feel that he was being lied to and that you actually had no intention to give him another chance?
if you've ever worked on the door of a bar or club, this is the "sorry mate, not in those shoes" tactic. Look, we both know you're blind, but this is less likely to result in an argument and quite possibly a fight.
It is. Hoskins went and put in all the effort to go home and get some fucking great shoes too. That'd fuck me right off.
that happened to me once, i actually cracked up.
still didn't let him in, pulled a Razor
The "Clothes too casual" manouvre
sorry mate, private function
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@DurryMexted said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal The Ardie situation is arguably even tougher than the BB situation. It feels like the Barrett situation will run its course following this tour, where he physically is not up to it and its fairly obvious even to the lesser engaged fans. Beaudie could retire from international footy or just have an 'injury cloud' and fade into a much lesser role in the squad. Its not a hard decision for Razor to make.
Ardie on the other hand is actually still in seemingly great physical condition, but is just refusing to be a role player in the team. For one, its not immediately clear that the coaching staff even see this issue, but assuming they actually do some analysis on this - Razor has to either re-train him into actually peforming his core role (& him actually doing it on the field) or drop him for an actual 7 who can and will tackle and hit rucks all day. For a coach/organisation that seems to be so heavily dictated by broader influence, i dont see this happening until it becomes so bad that everyone starts to agree (as per BB situation) and even then all it takes is a short instagram snippet of a turnover or big dummie and the masses will be satisfied that all is well. I just cant see a situation where Ardie is dropped, and i cant see one where he changes his play. So will be a holding pattern through to the RWC
The BB situation has a limited timeline because of Mo'unga coming back anyway - it's just a disgusting shortsighted waste of development opportunity which will leave us in a worse position post WC.
Ardie is a problem, which becomes a bigger problem if you want to pick Sititi too.
Well, Mounga was missing tackles six years ago in vital games, so that's unlikely to improved as time has marched on.
His one trick is using his speed to fix forwards in the backline, again at what 33(?) that pace has to be fading, and it was a trick that worked great at super rugby level but was only effective at Test level against minnows.
He's not the answer either, just another step in the lowering the AB standard down from Test level to Super Rugby level. We'll look great with a lead, score some pretty trys in some games, and as soon as the heat comes in with a team with a strong forward pack and strong defence, we'll crack like we have for the past 18 months.
If we don't change the coaches now we have little chance of winning a QF in a World Cup, yet alone winning the thing. And we'll have more record losses on the way.
That hasn't really changed. I only watch full games occasionally, but I remember the semi final last year because lots of kiwis were involved, and he was a turn style (despite being excellent on attack, I have to say).
A quick google (Rugbypass) shows he made 1 completed tackle in that game, and missed 3 (tackles made = 4; tackles completed = 1, tackles missed =3). I think I'm interpreting their stats correctly as that is how it adds up for other players.
To be fair, it does look like that was his worst defensive game of the playoffs, it looks like he completed 6, missed none in the final. On the other hand, the Kobe team had some of the best inside backs he faced (Gatland, Lafaele, Little) and their midfielders were excellent that day.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Good post.
A bit beyond this thread, but as someone who works with new young people every year, I would say that our generations focus on pragmatism has become dramatically less important - some will act against their best interests emphasizing personal well being and current priorities in a way that I find bizarre but does seem to actually work for them (btw, I'm not talking about the feverish, ideological purity of this generation to some ideas, despite clear evidence to the contrary in support of a doctrine).
Let's see where this lands, I suspect we'll have to wait for some biographies to find out.
I think Dalton wants to play. Just as Akira and Hoskins did. But you can only put yourself up to get knocked down and passed over by lesser players so often before you stop
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
If you give a guy work ons and he does these, then you fail to pick him anyway, what message does that send? Could he take you at your word, or would he start to feel that he was being lied to and that you actually had no intention to give him another chance?
if you've ever worked on the door of a bar or club, this is the "sorry mate, not in those shoes" tactic. Look, we both know you're blind, but this is less likely to result in an argument and quite possibly a fight.
It is. Hoskins went and put in all the effort to go home and get some fucking great shoes too. That'd fuck me right off.
that happened to me once, i actually cracked up.
still didn't let him in, pulled a Razor
Don't call me 'him' bro, I'm right here.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Good post.
A bit beyond this thread, but as someone who works with new young people every year, I would say that our generations focus on pragmatism has become dramatically less important - some will act against their best interests emphasizing personal well being and current priorities in a way that I find bizarre but does seem to actually work for them (btw, I'm not talking about the feverish, ideological purity of this generation to some ideas, despite clear evidence to the contrary in support of a doctrine).
Let's see where this lands, I suspect we'll have to wait for some biographies to find out.
I think Dalton wants to play. Just as Akira and Hoskins did. But you can only put yourself up to get knocked down and passed over by lesser players so often before you stop
Especially when the likes of CLW has a decent season, not awesome, just decent, and gets elevated off the back of it or Kirifi gets elevated after toiling away for years and isn't a success.
Man, I went to bed last night not expecting to wake up this morning and see multiple threads with wagons being circled for Razor..
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Just on the Papalii piece
He didnt feature in the last 9 tests of 2024.
He got one opportunity in 2025 (due to a warm up injury) and had a superb 15 minutes from the bench.
Has then been overlooked again until a injury cover call up on the end of year tour.
I'd be pissed off as well.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
This is the problem I have with the Paps scenario and by extension Akira (don't tell me he wouldn't have stayed if they asked) and Hoskins. He was given work ons and he appears to have done what they asked. But he still doesn't get picked and lots of fans would base their opinions on whether he should get another shot or not purely on past performance. But if we did that we would have never seen the best from rodders or Kaino, who were both dropped and told to go away and work on stuff. I think we can all agree they ended up having pretty good AB careers the second time around
Why do we have Sititi replacing Parker when they are completely different players? Even the Chiefs were replacing similar for similar in Finau for Parker.
I think Robertson decided at the start of this year that he wanted to have 1 x lump + Savea + Sititi. The latter two being considered too good to leave out. Because of that, his lump needs to be a first class lineout target, a defensive enforcer and effective ball carrier in heavy traffic, and have a massive workrate hitting rucks and making tackles. Unfortunately for us that player doesn't exist.
Sititi post-injury and shift to 8 and a tighter role underwhelmed. So he's now gone with Lakai to start and Sititi on the bench, but this changes little as Lakai is predominantly a carrier too, and not the biggest guy, and not a lineout target.Parker can't last 80 even at Super level, so he has to be replaced. We aren't clever enough / too risk averse to have 2 loosies on the bench. And as per above, Sititi too good to leave out.
Sititi isnt too good to leave out. Hes been inconsistent. What did he do in the weekend?
Zero tackles in 26 minutes.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nogusta said in All Blacks 2025:
You can't say its "DP's decision" unless you have some evidence that Razor actually picked him and DP said no.
Razor: "Dalton I've picked you for the All Blacks"
DP: "No thanks.
Nailed it bruv
Got the 'call up' whilst with the ABXVs
Said thanks but no thanks.
Won't play for a coach he has lost respect for
NZRU considering sanction/fine of some
kind.
He got shafted last year around the time of the Northern tour and again this year.
Was it (this years shafting) to do with his non selection? Yes and no.Ok if that's his principled position then fair enough.
Im out of touch with the younger generation. They are a lot more high minded than me.
Im more inclined to grub around in the mud if I have to get the things I think will benefit my family in the long run.
Ive been critical of Razor and I dont like Ryan but at the end of the day they are just like everyone else - flawed human beings. A bit of forgiveness rather than holding grudges and seeking revenge can be beneficial.
On the other hand sometimes its not worth getting involved with toxic people.
Tough position.
One thing is for certain, if players are refusing to accept call ups then the ABs current culture as at an all time low.
Good post.
A bit beyond this thread, but as someone who works with new young people every year, I would say that our generations focus on pragmatism has become dramatically less important - some will act against their best interests emphasizing personal well being and current priorities in a way that I find bizarre but does seem to actually work for them (btw, I'm not talking about the feverish, ideological purity of this generation to some ideas, despite clear evidence to the contrary in support of a doctrine).
Let's see where this lands, I suspect we'll have to wait for some biographies to find out.
I think Dalton wants to play. Just as Akira and Hoskins did. But you can only put yourself up to get knocked down and passed over by lesser players so often before you stop
Especially when the likes of CLW has a decent season, not awesome, just decent, and gets elevated off the back of it or Kirifi gets elevated after toiling away for years and isn't a success.
Man, I went to bed last night not expecting to wake up this morning and see multiple threads with wagons being circled for Razor..
This is the fern, not the Breakdown ( although apparently even they have turned on him )
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
This is the problem I have with the Paps scenario and by extension Akira (don't tell me he wouldn't have stayed if they asked) and Hoskins. He was given work ons and he appears to have done what they asked. But he still doesn't get picked and lots of fans would base their opinions on whether he should get another shot or not purely on past performance. But if we did that we would have never seen the best from rodders or Kaino, who were both dropped and told to go away and work on stuff. I think we can all agree they ended up having pretty good AB careers the second time around
Why do we have Sititi replacing Parker when they are completely different players? Even the Chiefs were replacing similar for similar in Finau for Parker.
I think Robertson decided at the start of this year that he wanted to have 1 x lump + Savea + Sititi. The latter two being considered too good to leave out. Because of that, his lump needs to be a first class lineout target, a defensive enforcer and effective ball carrier in heavy traffic, and have a massive workrate hitting rucks and making tackles. Unfortunately for us that player doesn't exist.
Sititi post-injury and shift to 8 and a tighter role underwhelmed. So he's now gone with Lakai to start and Sititi on the bench, but this changes little as Lakai is predominantly a carrier too, and not the biggest guy, and not a lineout target.Parker can't last 80 even at Super level, so he has to be replaced. We aren't clever enough / too risk averse to have 2 loosies on the bench. And as per above, Sititi too good to leave out.
Sititi isnt too good to leave out. Hes been inconsistent. What did he do in the weekend?
Zero tackles in 26 minutes.
"considered". It's not my argument, it's what I think Raygun thinks.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@DurryMexted said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal The Ardie situation is arguably even tougher than the BB situation. It feels like the Barrett situation will run its course following this tour, where he physically is not up to it and its fairly obvious even to the lesser engaged fans. Beaudie could retire from international footy or just have an 'injury cloud' and fade into a much lesser role in the squad. Its not a hard decision for Razor to make.
Ardie on the other hand is actually still in seemingly great physical condition, but is just refusing to be a role player in the team. For one, its not immediately clear that the coaching staff even see this issue, but assuming they actually do some analysis on this - Razor has to either re-train him into actually peforming his core role (& him actually doing it on the field) or drop him for an actual 7 who can and will tackle and hit rucks all day. For a coach/organisation that seems to be so heavily dictated by broader influence, i dont see this happening until it becomes so bad that everyone starts to agree (as per BB situation) and even then all it takes is a short instagram snippet of a turnover or big dummie and the masses will be satisfied that all is well. I just cant see a situation where Ardie is dropped, and i cant see one where he changes his play. So will be a holding pattern through to the RWC
the wider public are finally starting to turn on BB and even Scott B
The wider public still think Ardie was unlucky not to get shortlisted for World Player of the Year (yep, i have seen calls like this) so there is no pressure.
Read comments sections, for every call that Savea is not doing his job there are 5 that want him to be captain because he's got Samoan pride and mana and dumb shit like that.
Staunch facials and sick social media can get you a long way these days. Beast mode!I think the tide is turning. I've been complaining about Ardie for years and everyone looked at me like I had a second head. Now more and more people are recognizing it.
And once that thought embeds itself it will fester. Once seen can't be unseen.
Admittedly there will always be the churr bros, but they think "run it straight" is fully sick too.
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@antipodean preach.
@Bones had been pointing out weaknesses in Jordan's game for years. I agreed, but it was a lonely place until everyone else catches up that while there are real strengths but also real weaknesses
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I am told after Taylor's 100th in Argentina - only the Crusaders players in the squad went to his room to drink with him. I cannot say who the source is so take it as you will.
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@reprobate said in England v All Blacks:
@No-Quarter I think that's a bit harsh.
Ioane was not flourishing at 13 last year, and there was a lot of criticism on here. Proctor was outstanding in Super as was Tupaea, and Jordie carved it up up north. Again worth a go.
Having said that, if you try something and it doesn't work, then it fucking well should be changed.
I would say (yet again) that the backs' problems are at 10 and the game plan. If you won't change those, then nobody in the backs is really getting a fair go.
Some of us pointed out that it was the game plan all along and we'd see the same outcomes. Just with the added benefit of decreased defensive capabilities.
The coach responsible for attack has to go. It's unfathomable you can take players of this caliber and make them look this inept.
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@Old-Alleynians said in All Blacks 2025:
I am told after Taylor's 100th in Argentina - only the Crusaders players in the squad went to his room to drink with him. I cannot say who the source is so take it as you will.
If true, this all comes back to the original squad and Razor taking a giant shit on the form players of SR and instead bringing in the grossly undeserving.
So much for his vaunted man management and motivational skills.
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@Old-Alleynians said in All Blacks 2025:
I am told after Taylor's 100th in Argentina - only the Crusaders players in the squad went to his room to drink with him. I cannot say who the source is so take it as you will.
So we're back to the cliques of the Mitchell years (and previous) then.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Old-Alleynians said in All Blacks 2025:
I am told after Taylor's 100th in Argentina - only the Crusaders players in the squad went to his room to drink with him. I cannot say who the source is so take it as you will.
If true, this all comes back to the original squad and Razor taking a giant shit on the form players of SR and instead bringing in the grossly undeserving.
So much for his vaunted man management and motivational skills.
Really?
Firstly, I can't see how this story is true - or if it is, it would have been a super select invite list at Taylors doing, just a couple of close mates, likely spur of the moment or something.
I just can't see the non-Cantab players hating Razor so much that they refuse the chance to honour a bloke like Taylor who has been an awesome AB and seems very well-liked by all.
We all like to hate on Ardie for his game, but can you imagine him saying to Codie "cheers for the invite bro, but fuck that, Razor sucks, I'm not coming"? DMac? Sami?
Just nah
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@Old-Alleynians said in All Blacks 2025:
I am told after Taylor's 100th in Argentina - only the Crusaders players in the squad went to his room to drink with him. I cannot say who the source is so take it as you will.
i find this a little hard to believe given Taylor is a 10-year hundred-plus cap AB who has played for years with a huge number of the squad no matter where they are from. Given this is his 3rd AB coaching group, even if this turned out to be accurate, i would find it difficult to pin on the current environment. Maybe he's just a prick?
