All Blacks 2025
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@DurryMexted said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal The Ardie situation is arguably even tougher than the BB situation. It feels like the Barrett situation will run its course following this tour, where he physically is not up to it and its fairly obvious even to the lesser engaged fans. Beaudie could retire from international footy or just have an 'injury cloud' and fade into a much lesser role in the squad. Its not a hard decision for Razor to make.
Ardie on the other hand is actually still in seemingly great physical condition, but is just refusing to be a role player in the team. For one, its not immediately clear that the coaching staff even see this issue, but assuming they actually do some analysis on this - Razor has to either re-train him into actually peforming his core role (& him actually doing it on the field) or drop him for an actual 7 who can and will tackle and hit rucks all day. For a coach/organisation that seems to be so heavily dictated by broader influence, i dont see this happening until it becomes so bad that everyone starts to agree (as per BB situation) and even then all it takes is a short instagram snippet of a turnover or big dummie and the masses will be satisfied that all is well. I just cant see a situation where Ardie is dropped, and i cant see one where he changes his play. So will be a holding pattern through to the RWC
the wider public are finally starting to turn on BB and even Scott B
The wider public still think Ardie was unlucky not to get shortlisted for World Player of the Year (yep, i have seen calls like this) so there is no pressure.
Read comments sections, for every call that Savea is not doing his job there are 5 that want him to be captain because he's got Samoan pride and mana and dumb shit like that.
Staunch facials and sick social media can get you a long way these days. Beast mode!Get the Ardie-should-be-dropped-to-the-bench argument and the Scooter argument. But I also think we play better when Ardie has the armband.
Which kinda begs the question who should really be captain? A fit(?) Patty T, Roigard (too early), Sititi (ditto), Jordie?
Vaai or Paps...
The problem with Vaa'i is after he found his feet at lock, and was often our best player there, they've started fucking around with moving him to 6 to accommodate their under performing captain. So is he a lock or a 6? If it's 6, he still has a long way to go to learn the position, as even though he has played well wearing the 6 jumper, he still played more like a lock (which is completely understandable). You can't really make a guy captain if you are moving him between positions.
Paps ticked all the boxes with leadership experience and commanding his position at 7. That can't happen under the current coaches, but a big step forward for the ABs next season would be JJ head coach with Paps captain. Hell we may even get the best 8 in the squad as well! I wonder if JJ could convince Akira to come back as well? One can dream....
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@DurryMexted said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal The Ardie situation is arguably even tougher than the BB situation. It feels like the Barrett situation will run its course following this tour, where he physically is not up to it and its fairly obvious even to the lesser engaged fans. Beaudie could retire from international footy or just have an 'injury cloud' and fade into a much lesser role in the squad. Its not a hard decision for Razor to make.
Ardie on the other hand is actually still in seemingly great physical condition, but is just refusing to be a role player in the team. For one, its not immediately clear that the coaching staff even see this issue, but assuming they actually do some analysis on this - Razor has to either re-train him into actually peforming his core role (& him actually doing it on the field) or drop him for an actual 7 who can and will tackle and hit rucks all day. For a coach/organisation that seems to be so heavily dictated by broader influence, i dont see this happening until it becomes so bad that everyone starts to agree (as per BB situation) and even then all it takes is a short instagram snippet of a turnover or big dummie and the masses will be satisfied that all is well. I just cant see a situation where Ardie is dropped, and i cant see one where he changes his play. So will be a holding pattern through to the RWC
the wider public are finally starting to turn on BB and even Scott B
The wider public still think Ardie was unlucky not to get shortlisted for World Player of the Year (yep, i have seen calls like this) so there is no pressure.
Read comments sections, for every call that Savea is not doing his job there are 5 that want him to be captain because he's got Samoan pride and mana and dumb shit like that.
Staunch facials and sick social media can get you a long way these days. Beast mode!Get the Ardie-should-be-dropped-to-the-bench argument and the Scooter argument. But I also think we play better when Ardie has the armband.
Which kinda begs the question who should really be captain? A fit(?) Patty T, Roigard (too early), Sititi (ditto), Jordie?
I'm of the opinion that the way out is to pick a leadership group and appoint captain from the team selected game to game.
Who would the leadership group options be from across the country? ( Just options of experienced leadership roles in Super Rugby - runs the game - and or high test caps. Some players shouldn't be in the selection. )
Ethan De Groot
Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Codie Taylor
Asafo Aumua
Scott Barrett
Patrick Tuipulotu
Tupou Vaa'i
Ardie Savea
Dalton Papali'i
Luke Jacobson
Du'Plessis Kirifi
Cam Roigard
Beauden Barrett
Jordie Barrett
David Havili
Anton Lienert Brown
Timoci Tavatavanawai
Billy Proctor
Rieko IoaneWho are the players that have been involved as leaders in successful Super Rugby campaigns?
Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Codie Taylor
Scott Barrett
Patrick Tuipulotu
Dalton Papali'i
David Havili
Rieko IoaneWho has played in RWC final?
Beauden Barrett
Will Jordan
Anton Leniert Brown
Rieko Ioane
Jordie Barrett
Damian Mckenzie
Finlay Christie
Ardie Savea
Dalton Papali'i
Scott Barrett
Samisoni Taukei'aho
Codie Taylor
Tyrell Lomax
Ethan De Groot
Tamaiti WilliamsWho has won an RWC?
Codie Taylor
Beauden Barrett -
@MacDazzler said in All Blacks 2025:
Just listened to Scott Hansen's press conference.
The guy sounds like a politician and a total buffoon. Hopefully he's the next one to leave the All Blacks followed by Razor and Ryan.
He comes across really really strange.
Performatively calling the journalist "sir" because he wanted to sidestep the question and trot out his Bill Bellichick-esque "we are just focussed on Wales".
Scott Hansen has linkedin written all over him.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@DurryMexted said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal The Ardie situation is arguably even tougher than the BB situation. It feels like the Barrett situation will run its course following this tour, where he physically is not up to it and its fairly obvious even to the lesser engaged fans. Beaudie could retire from international footy or just have an 'injury cloud' and fade into a much lesser role in the squad. Its not a hard decision for Razor to make.
Ardie on the other hand is actually still in seemingly great physical condition, but is just refusing to be a role player in the team. For one, its not immediately clear that the coaching staff even see this issue, but assuming they actually do some analysis on this - Razor has to either re-train him into actually peforming his core role (& him actually doing it on the field) or drop him for an actual 7 who can and will tackle and hit rucks all day. For a coach/organisation that seems to be so heavily dictated by broader influence, i dont see this happening until it becomes so bad that everyone starts to agree (as per BB situation) and even then all it takes is a short instagram snippet of a turnover or big dummie and the masses will be satisfied that all is well. I just cant see a situation where Ardie is dropped, and i cant see one where he changes his play. So will be a holding pattern through to the RWC
the wider public are finally starting to turn on BB and even Scott B
The wider public still think Ardie was unlucky not to get shortlisted for World Player of the Year (yep, i have seen calls like this) so there is no pressure.
Read comments sections, for every call that Savea is not doing his job there are 5 that want him to be captain because he's got Samoan pride and mana and dumb shit like that.
Staunch facials and sick social media can get you a long way these days. Beast mode!Get the Ardie-should-be-dropped-to-the-bench argument and the Scooter argument. But I also think we play better when Ardie has the armband.
Which kinda begs the question who should really be captain? A fit(?) Patty T, Roigard (too early), Sititi (ditto), Jordie?
I'm of the opinion that the way out is to pick a leadership group and appoint captain from the team selected game to game.
Who would the leadership group options be from across the country? ( Just options of experienced leadership roles in Super Rugby - runs the game - and or high test caps. Some players shouldn't be in the selection. )
Ethan De Groot
Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Codie Taylor
Asafo Aumua
Scott Barrett
Patrick Tuipulotu
Tupou Vaa'i
Ardie Savea
Dalton Papali'i
Luke Jacobson
Du'Plessis Kirifi
Cam Roigard
Beauden Barrett
Jordie Barrett
David Havili
Anton Lienert Brown
Timoci Tavatavanawai
Billy Proctor
Rieko IoaneWho are the players that have been involved as leaders in successful Super Rugby campaigns?
Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Codie Taylor
Scott Barrett
Patrick Tuipulotu
Dalton Papali'i
David Havili
Rieko IoaneWho has played in RWC final?
Beauden Barrett
Will Jordan
Anton Leniert Brown
Rieko Ioane
Jordie Barrett
Damian Mckenzie
Finlay Christie
Ardie Savea
Dalton Papali'i
Scott Barrett
Samisoni Taukei'aho
Codie Taylor
Tyrell Lomax
Ethan De Groot
Tamaiti WilliamsWho has won an RWC?
Codie Taylor
Beauden BarrettOf that list, Taylor, Roigard, maybe Papali'i, Jordie Barrett, Scott Barrett and Tuipulotu, from the bench? Some guys aren't going to be on the field at the end of the game.
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There were times during the Foster era where we just rolled our sleeves up and went up fat mans alley. We made easy metres when we did this. The current team doesn't seem to have that ability.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@DurryMexted said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal The Ardie situation is arguably even tougher than the BB situation. It feels like the Barrett situation will run its course following this tour, where he physically is not up to it and its fairly obvious even to the lesser engaged fans. Beaudie could retire from international footy or just have an 'injury cloud' and fade into a much lesser role in the squad. Its not a hard decision for Razor to make.
Ardie on the other hand is actually still in seemingly great physical condition, but is just refusing to be a role player in the team. For one, its not immediately clear that the coaching staff even see this issue, but assuming they actually do some analysis on this - Razor has to either re-train him into actually peforming his core role (& him actually doing it on the field) or drop him for an actual 7 who can and will tackle and hit rucks all day. For a coach/organisation that seems to be so heavily dictated by broader influence, i dont see this happening until it becomes so bad that everyone starts to agree (as per BB situation) and even then all it takes is a short instagram snippet of a turnover or big dummie and the masses will be satisfied that all is well. I just cant see a situation where Ardie is dropped, and i cant see one where he changes his play. So will be a holding pattern through to the RWC
the wider public are finally starting to turn on BB and even Scott B
The wider public still think Ardie was unlucky not to get shortlisted for World Player of the Year (yep, i have seen calls like this) so there is no pressure.
Read comments sections, for every call that Savea is not doing his job there are 5 that want him to be captain because he's got Samoan pride and mana and dumb shit like that.
Staunch facials and sick social media can get you a long way these days. Beast mode!Get the Ardie-should-be-dropped-to-the-bench argument and the Scooter argument. But I also think we play better when Ardie has the armband.
Which kinda begs the question who should really be captain? A fit(?) Patty T, Roigard (too early), Sititi (ditto), Jordie?
I'm of the opinion that the way out is to pick a leadership group and appoint captain from the team selected game to game.
Who would the leadership group options be from across the country? ( Just options of experienced leadership roles in Super Rugby - runs the game - and or high test caps. Some players shouldn't be in the selection. )
Ethan De Groot
Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Codie Taylor
Asafo Aumua
Scott Barrett
Patrick Tuipulotu
Tupou Vaa'i
Ardie Savea
Dalton Papali'i
Luke Jacobson
Du'Plessis Kirifi
Cam Roigard
Beauden Barrett
Jordie Barrett
David Havili
Anton Lienert Brown
Timoci Tavatavanawai
Billy Proctor
Rieko IoaneWho are the players that have been involved as leaders in successful Super Rugby campaigns?
Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Codie Taylor
Scott Barrett
Patrick Tuipulotu
Dalton Papali'i
David Havili
Rieko IoaneWho has played in RWC final?
Beauden Barrett
Will Jordan
Anton Leniert Brown
Rieko Ioane
Jordie Barrett
Damian Mckenzie
Finlay Christie
Ardie Savea
Dalton Papali'i
Scott Barrett
Samisoni Taukei'aho
Codie Taylor
Tyrell Lomax
Ethan De Groot
Tamaiti WilliamsWho has won an RWC?
Codie Taylor
Beauden BarrettOf that list, Taylor, Roigard, maybe Papali'i, Jordie Barrett, Scott Barrett and Tuipulotu, from the bench? Some guys aren't going to be on the field at the end of the game.
Given that the Saffas have won the last world cup twice with a captain who doesn't stay on the field it's a fact that a captain who plays 80 minutes isn't needed for success.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
There were times during the Foster era where we just rolled our sleeves up and went up fat mans alley. We made easy metres when we did this. The current team doesn't seem to have that ability.
Yeah I agree. Particularly once Schmidt and Ryan came in mid-Fozzie
Early Fozzie was similar to what we see now with an over reliance on pod / out the back plays and not enough variation in our attack.
We should be picking and go-ing /up the guts far more than we do.
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‘The All Blacks are prone to extreme mental paralysis in the 20 minutes after half-time’
New Zealand's loss to England was the latest example of them hitting a 'mental black spot' in the third quarter of matches.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
There were times during the Foster era where we just rolled our sleeves up and went up fat mans alley. We made easy metres when we did this. The current team doesn't seem to have that ability.
Yeah I agree. Particularly once Schmidt and Ryan came in mid-Fozzie
Early Fozzie was similar to what we see now with an over reliance on pod / out the back plays and not enough variation in our attack.
We should be picking and go-ing /up the guts far more than we do.
Do we have the forwards to actually do this? Im not convinced we have the starting forwards to make close in metres.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
‘The All Blacks are prone to extreme mental paralysis in the 20 minutes after half-time’
New Zealand's loss to England was the latest example of them hitting a 'mental black spot' in the third quarter of matches.
Comments below the article are illuminating. Check out the comment with the England game stats.
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This year must be the lowest number of tries scored for decades by us, if not since professionalism?
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The fact that there is not an obvious pick for captain probably speaks volumes as to where the ABs are at - and personally I think this is separate from the coaches.
Even of coaches change, I don’t necessarily think the likes of Papalii are ‘nailed on’ starters. I think you could probably say Taylor, Holland, Savea, Roigard, J Barrett and Will Jordan are probably the only universal nailed on starters, and half the fern wouldn’t have Ardie in there, + even Holland is dubious to be called nailed on. Heck, with the emergence of Pledger is out the realms that this time next year Roigard is not a nailed on starter?
You could make Codie Taylor captain, but that feels like a sticking plaster given his age and stage.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
The fact that there is not an obvious pick for captain probably speaks volumes as to where the ABs are at - and personally I think this is separate from the coaches.
Even of coaches change, I don’t necessarily think the likes of Papalii are ‘nailed on’ starters. I think you could probably say Taylor, Holland, Savea, Roigard, J Barrett and Will Jordan are probably the only universal nailed on starters, and half the fern wouldn’t have Ardie in there, + even Holland is dubious to be called nailed on. Heck, with the emergence of Pledger is out the realms that this time next year Roigard is not a nailed on starter?
You could make Codie Taylor captain, but that feels like a sticking plaster given his age and stage.
I'd be okay with Codie. Sometimes you need a bridge, a bit like Tana being captain to help steady the ship before we took off again
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
The fact that there is not an obvious pick for captain probably speaks volumes as to where the ABs are at - and personally I think this is separate from the coaches.
Even of coaches change, I don’t necessarily think the likes of Papalii are ‘nailed on’ starters. I think you could probably say Taylor, Holland, Savea, Roigard, J Barrett and Will Jordan are probably the only universal nailed on starters, and half the fern wouldn’t have Ardie in there, + even Holland is dubious to be called nailed on. Heck, with the emergence of Pledger is out the realms that this time next year Roigard is not a nailed on starter?
You could make Codie Taylor captain, but that feels like a sticking plaster given his age and stage.
The history of AB captains is interesting in terms of how and who have been selected, and then the public reaction to it.
Post 2003 RWC was anyone thinking that Umaga would/should be captain? A new coaching regime opened the door for a change but I’m not sure he was the obvious choice. Who else was there?
But it did work out with the two year captaincy and then transition to McCaw (who had his own leadership issues in those first couple of years).I think with how Scooters body is, they can transition to someone else. In hindsight I probably would’ve made Jordie the captain if what has been written about Ardie is true regarding him not wanting it.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
The fact that there is not an obvious pick for captain probably speaks volumes as to where the ABs are at - and personally I think this is separate from the coaches.
Even of coaches change, I don’t necessarily think the likes of Papalii are ‘nailed on’ starters. I think you could probably say Taylor, Holland, Savea, Roigard, J Barrett and Will Jordan are probably the only universal nailed on starters, and half the fern wouldn’t have Ardie in there, + even Holland is dubious to be called nailed on. Heck, with the emergence of Pledger is out the realms that this time next year Roigard is not a nailed on starter?
You could make Codie Taylor captain, but that feels like a sticking plaster given his age and stage.
Nailed on for most positions is subjective. There would only be a 1 or 2 positions where people are 100% in agreement. Roigard and Taylor starting are probably the positions where people are 100% behind those players.
Even Jordan some will say fullback and some will say wing. Some will say put JB back to fullback.
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Yeah agree but those four might be about it as nailed on starters agreed by everyone.
My nailed on starters.
Taylor
Holland
Papali'i
Roigard
Jordan
Clarke
JBPersonally I'd move JB back to fullback. When he first moved to 12 he was bring used quite a bit for hard carrying but since that is no longer the case I would have him at the back to sure up our aerial game.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
This year must be the lowest number of tries scored for decades by us, if not since professionalism?
44 this year so far by my (probably mis) count. Per game is probably the interesting stat there as they play more games than they used to.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal that says, historically, we score 3.97 per game, oddly, 2009 it says we only had 1.97 per game, veery other year since 2000 has been >3.5.
We have scored over 3.5 since 1995, oddly, 1994 it says we averaged 1 try per game.
Assuming you are right at 44, we have played 13 games which is 3.4 per game, so only slightly down, but lowest since 2009, 2nd lowest since 1994.
Assuming I am reading that correctly, we concede on average, 14.7 per game, now that is been blown away in recent years (19.29 LY, 15.25 / 2023, 23.38 / 2022, 18.2 / 2021, 12.83 / 2020
