All Blacks 2025
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Pilfered from Planet Rugby.
Don't worry, a 30 point win over Wales will fix that stat
?
The combined losing margin can't be better than 53.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Pilfered from Planet Rugby.
Don't worry, a 30 point win over Wales will fix that stat
?
The combined losing margin can't be better than 53.
ah, right you are. Sorry, my bad - misunderstood the data posted.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
Ardie proving the fern wrong yet again
Beauden unlucky to miss out.
Has Savea even had a good season by his own standards?
I'll check his instagram
Has he still got that stupid pic of him sitting against the goalpost looking into the sky contemplating life after the England test?
I did it and went into the comments section of that pic on instagram ,
Most of it was along the lines of ,
if everyone tried as hard as him we wouldnt lose a game , or - this poor bugger busts his guts out every game, he deserves better
im probably not as anti Ardie as some on here , but I do think there is some serious delusional stuff going on with the general public
He has good parts to his game, but he's really starting to annoy me. He's playing for his own image and is playing like a glory hunter. He knows what he's doing.
i am not willing to go that far. To me he is a victim of a distinct lack of accountability. A hard nose coach in teh video session shows us losing that ruck on the line with him standing at first receiver and tells him if it happens again then someone will be found who will hit that ruck.
In the 2023 RWC Ardie played tight as shit. Hard carries, hit rucks, and we were so much better for it. He was given a job and did it. This coaching panel has decided the best use of him is for Ardie to do what he wants. The great unwashed only watch who has the ball anyway, so to them he's killing it (despite an enormously reduced effectiveness this year).
Hit a ruck you cat!!
Nail on the head there. He's a very talented player, who is being used badly - or is being left to his own devices, and seagulls. Either way it's a coaching/selection fault. If he's doing what is asked then what we're asking him to do is wrong; if he's not then drop him.
@nostrildamus He isn't even our best loosie to be running with the backs if that's the role he has been given - Sititi has better feet, is faster, and is a better offloader - all of which he showed last year when used wide.On a related note, I'd like to see Finau spend a season at 8. If our 8s role is as per England game smashing it up for 20 carries, then Finau could be much more effective than Lakai, Sititi, CLW. He also gives us a 3rd lineout target, and then you could play Sititi for wide carries and ball skills, with DP or EB to provide ruck workload.
I think Savea really does suit the bench role where he can come on fresh against tired guys and be the hero and beat his chest a bit.I think Sititi is probably quicker off the mark than Ardie but I think Ardie probably has a higher top speed.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
Ardie proving the fern wrong yet again
Beauden unlucky to miss out.
Has Savea even had a good season by his own standards?
I'll check his instagram
Has he still got that stupid pic of him sitting against the goalpost looking into the sky contemplating life after the England test?
I did it and went into the comments section of that pic on instagram ,
Most of it was along the lines of ,
if everyone tried as hard as him we wouldnt lose a game , or - this poor bugger busts his guts out every game, he deserves better
im probably not as anti Ardie as some on here , but I do think there is some serious delusional stuff going on with the general public
He has good parts to his game, but he's really starting to annoy me. He's playing for his own image and is playing like a glory hunter. He knows what he's doing.
i am not willing to go that far. To me he is a victim of a distinct lack of accountability. A hard nose coach in teh video session shows us losing that ruck on the line with him standing at first receiver and tells him if it happens again then someone will be found who will hit that ruck.
In the 2023 RWC Ardie played tight as shit. Hard carries, hit rucks, and we were so much better for it. He was given a job and did it. This coaching panel has decided the best use of him is for Ardie to do what he wants. The great unwashed only watch who has the ball anyway, so to them he's killing it (despite an enormously reduced effectiveness this year).
Hit a ruck you cat!!
Nail on the head there. He's a very talented player, who is being used badly - or is being left to his own devices, and seagulls. Either way it's a coaching/selection fault. If he's doing what is asked then what we're asking him to do is wrong; if he's not then drop him.
@nostrildamus He isn't even our best loosie to be running with the backs if that's the role he has been given - Sititi has better feet, is faster, and is a better offloader - all of which he showed last year when used wide.On a related note, I'd like to see Finau spend a season at 8. If our 8s role is as per England game smashing it up for 20 carries, then Finau could be much more effective than Lakai, Sititi, CLW. He also gives us a 3rd lineout target, and then you could play Sititi for wide carries and ball skills, with DP or EB to provide ruck workload.
I think Savea really does suit the bench role where he can come on fresh against tired guys and be the hero and beat his chest a bit.I think Sititi is probably quicker off the mark than Ardie but I think Ardie probably has a higher top speed.
Well it's not high enough for him to be a valid chip kick option if you ask me.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
Ardie proving the fern wrong yet again
Beauden unlucky to miss out.
Has Savea even had a good season by his own standards?
I'll check his instagram
Has he still got that stupid pic of him sitting against the goalpost looking into the sky contemplating life after the England test?
I did it and went into the comments section of that pic on instagram ,
Most of it was along the lines of ,
if everyone tried as hard as him we wouldnt lose a game , or - this poor bugger busts his guts out every game, he deserves better
im probably not as anti Ardie as some on here , but I do think there is some serious delusional stuff going on with the general public
He has good parts to his game, but he's really starting to annoy me. He's playing for his own image and is playing like a glory hunter. He knows what he's doing.
i am not willing to go that far. To me he is a victim of a distinct lack of accountability. A hard nose coach in teh video session shows us losing that ruck on the line with him standing at first receiver and tells him if it happens again then someone will be found who will hit that ruck.
In the 2023 RWC Ardie played tight as shit. Hard carries, hit rucks, and we were so much better for it. He was given a job and did it. This coaching panel has decided the best use of him is for Ardie to do what he wants. The great unwashed only watch who has the ball anyway, so to them he's killing it (despite an enormously reduced effectiveness this year).
Hit a ruck you cat!!
Nail on the head there. He's a very talented player, who is being used badly - or is being left to his own devices, and seagulls. Either way it's a coaching/selection fault. If he's doing what is asked then what we're asking him to do is wrong; if he's not then drop him.
@nostrildamus He isn't even our best loosie to be running with the backs if that's the role he has been given - Sititi has better feet, is faster, and is a better offloader - all of which he showed last year when used wide.On a related note, I'd like to see Finau spend a season at 8. If our 8s role is as per England game smashing it up for 20 carries, then Finau could be much more effective than Lakai, Sititi, CLW. He also gives us a 3rd lineout target, and then you could play Sititi for wide carries and ball skills, with DP or EB to provide ruck workload.
I think Savea really does suit the bench role where he can come on fresh against tired guys and be the hero and beat his chest a bit.I think Sititi is probably quicker off the mark than Ardie but I think Ardie probably has a higher top speed.
Well it's not high enough for him to be a valid chip kick option if you ask me.
Well I don't want Sititi chipping either.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
Ardie proving the fern wrong yet again
Beauden unlucky to miss out.
Has Savea even had a good season by his own standards?
I'll check his instagram
Has he still got that stupid pic of him sitting against the goalpost looking into the sky contemplating life after the England test?
I did it and went into the comments section of that pic on instagram ,
Most of it was along the lines of ,
if everyone tried as hard as him we wouldnt lose a game , or - this poor bugger busts his guts out every game, he deserves better
im probably not as anti Ardie as some on here , but I do think there is some serious delusional stuff going on with the general public
He has good parts to his game, but he's really starting to annoy me. He's playing for his own image and is playing like a glory hunter. He knows what he's doing.
i am not willing to go that far. To me he is a victim of a distinct lack of accountability. A hard nose coach in teh video session shows us losing that ruck on the line with him standing at first receiver and tells him if it happens again then someone will be found who will hit that ruck.
In the 2023 RWC Ardie played tight as shit. Hard carries, hit rucks, and we were so much better for it. He was given a job and did it. This coaching panel has decided the best use of him is for Ardie to do what he wants. The great unwashed only watch who has the ball anyway, so to them he's killing it (despite an enormously reduced effectiveness this year).
Hit a ruck you cat!!
Nail on the head there. He's a very talented player, who is being used badly - or is being left to his own devices, and seagulls. Either way it's a coaching/selection fault. If he's doing what is asked then what we're asking him to do is wrong; if he's not then drop him.
@nostrildamus He isn't even our best loosie to be running with the backs if that's the role he has been given - Sititi has better feet, is faster, and is a better offloader - all of which he showed last year when used wide.On a related note, I'd like to see Finau spend a season at 8. If our 8s role is as per England game smashing it up for 20 carries, then Finau could be much more effective than Lakai, Sititi, CLW. He also gives us a 3rd lineout target, and then you could play Sititi for wide carries and ball skills, with DP or EB to provide ruck workload.
I think Savea really does suit the bench role where he can come on fresh against tired guys and be the hero and beat his chest a bit.I think Sititi is probably quicker off the mark than Ardie but I think Ardie probably has a higher top speed.
Well it's not high enough for him to be a valid chip kick option if you ask me.
Well I don't want Sititi chipping either.
No, but not a problem I've sighted yet thankfully.
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@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
Yeah, it's hard to know.
With BB, in many ways he plays the same in every team. He has always kicked the ball away a lot on attack: chipped for himself, cross kicks etc. They are high risk / high reward, 'I'm gonna be the hero', plays. Personally I hate that shit: keep the ball and be clinical and ruthless. For me, if there is a difference in his play, it would be that he looks to be under instructions to put up a lot of contestable high kicks, and he's just not accurate enough, more often than not they are too deep and just a straight turnover. When you combine those two things, it's not pretty.
With Savea, he can play different roles in different teams / at different times. The loosies are super confused to me, but if he's getting 'just do your thing' as his instructions, that would go a long way to explaining it. To be fair, Lakai at least did have a clear role against the Poms; however, he's just not big enough, nor was he given the ball in good enough situations for him doing most of our carrying to be a great idea.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
I thought I read an interview with Razor in the last 6 months or so where he said exactly that about BB, free rein.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
Yeah, it's hard to know.
With BB, in many ways he plays the same in every team. He has always kicked the ball away a lot on attack: chipped for himself, cross kicks etc. They are high risk / high reward, 'I'm gonna be the hero', plays. Personally I hate that shit: keep the ball and be clinical and ruthless. For me, if there is a difference in his play, it would be that he looks to be under instructions to put up a lot of contestable high kicks, and he's just not accurate enough, more often than not they are too deep and just a straight turnover. When you combine those two things, it's not pretty.
With Savea, he can play different roles in different teams / at different times. The loosies are super confused to me, but if he's getting 'just do your thing' as his instructions, that would go a long way to explaining it. To be fair, Lakai at least did have a clear role against the Poms; however, he's just not big enough, nor was he given the ball in good enough situations for him doing most of our carrying to be a great idea.
Are Savea's multiple roles "Chip kick from the 22" and "Don't pass to unmarked players in an overlap"? Or just "Don't clean at a ruck, get ready for another run instead".
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
Yeah, it's hard to know.
With BB, in many ways he plays the same in every team. He has always kicked the ball away a lot on attack: chipped for himself, cross kicks etc. They are high risk / high reward, 'I'm gonna be the hero', plays. Personally I hate that shit: keep the ball and be clinical and ruthless. For me, if there is a difference in his play, it would be that he looks to be under instructions to put up a lot of contestable high kicks, and he's just not accurate enough, more often than not they are too deep and just a straight turnover. When you combine those two things, it's not pretty.
With Savea, he can play different roles in different teams / at different times. The loosies are super confused to me, but if he's getting 'just do your thing' as his instructions, that would go a long way to explaining it. To be fair, Lakai at least did have a clear role against the Poms; however, he's just not big enough, nor was he given the ball in good enough situations for him doing most of our carrying to be a great idea.
Are Savea's multiple roles "Chip kick from the 22" and "Don't pass to unmarked players in an overlap"? Or just "Don't clean at a ruck, get ready for another run instead".
Bro, don't ask me what the fuck his role is in this team, I have no idea. But as per @mariner4life he played far tighter in the WC, which was effective.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
Yeah, it's hard to know.
With BB, in many ways he plays the same in every team. He has always kicked the ball away a lot on attack: chipped for himself, cross kicks etc. They are high risk / high reward, 'I'm gonna be the hero', plays. Personally I hate that shit: keep the ball and be clinical and ruthless. For me, if there is a difference in his play, it would be that he looks to be under instructions to put up a lot of contestable high kicks, and he's just not accurate enough, more often than not they are too deep and just a straight turnover. When you combine those two things, it's not pretty.
With Savea, he can play different roles in different teams / at different times. The loosies are super confused to me, but if he's getting 'just do your thing' as his instructions, that would go a long way to explaining it. To be fair, Lakai at least did have a clear role against the Poms; however, he's just not big enough, nor was he given the ball in good enough situations for him doing most of our carrying to be a great idea.
Are Savea's multiple roles "Chip kick from the 22" and "Don't pass to unmarked players in an overlap"? Or just "Don't clean at a ruck, get ready for another run instead".
Bro, don't ask me what the fuck his role is in this team, I have no idea. But as per @mariner4life he played far tighter in the WC, which was effective.
Our loose forwards played tighter - none more so than the captain - which suggests that it is partially a game plan. Either way it's the coach's fault and I'd subscribe to the inference Ardie is operating to instructions if he occasionally did what he's not doing because he sees it needs to be done. Something, something leadership...
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Inside Rugby: Chairman Kirk's nuclear option for coaching dilemma
OPINION: David Kirk has acknowledged All Blacks appointment process was flawed.
The Herald has spoken to several high-profile Kiwi coaches based overseas, who say that while they love their country and want teams in black to win on the world stage, they have no interest in coming home because they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels, and they don’t trust NZR to consistently make good decisions around coaching and management appointments.
Some coaches have said they fear NZR has become dismissive of what it could learn and borrow from other countries and that it has shut itself off entirely from the rest of the world, which is partly why they say the All Blacks’ defensive and attacking patterns are outdated and ineffective.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
i feel its been that way for years, i dont remember him ever playing differently
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Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.the question needs to be asked that if Hansen had applied to be the head coach in 2023, would he have been given the role? -
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.So he's basically a grifter?
A million bucks a year or whatever to bring in a culture of giving up at halftime and alienate some of the best players in the country.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
The Herald has spoken to several high-profile Kiwi coaches based overseas, who say that while they love their country and want teams in black to win on the world stage, they have no interest in coming home because they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels, and they don’t trust NZR to consistently make good decisions around coaching and management appointments.
Some coaches have said they fear NZR has become dismissive of what it could learn and borrow from other countries and that it has shut itself off entirely from the rest of the world, which is partly why they say the All Blacks’ defensive and attacking patterns are outdated and ineffective.
Well that sounds on target!
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.the question needs to be asked that if Hansen had applied to be the head coach in 2023, would he have been given the role?Jesus.
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