All Blacks 2025
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
Yeah, it's hard to know.
With BB, in many ways he plays the same in every team. He has always kicked the ball away a lot on attack: chipped for himself, cross kicks etc. They are high risk / high reward, 'I'm gonna be the hero', plays. Personally I hate that shit: keep the ball and be clinical and ruthless. For me, if there is a difference in his play, it would be that he looks to be under instructions to put up a lot of contestable high kicks, and he's just not accurate enough, more often than not they are too deep and just a straight turnover. When you combine those two things, it's not pretty.
With Savea, he can play different roles in different teams / at different times. The loosies are super confused to me, but if he's getting 'just do your thing' as his instructions, that would go a long way to explaining it. To be fair, Lakai at least did have a clear role against the Poms; however, he's just not big enough, nor was he given the ball in good enough situations for him doing most of our carrying to be a great idea.
Are Savea's multiple roles "Chip kick from the 22" and "Don't pass to unmarked players in an overlap"? Or just "Don't clean at a ruck, get ready for another run instead".
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
Yeah, it's hard to know.
With BB, in many ways he plays the same in every team. He has always kicked the ball away a lot on attack: chipped for himself, cross kicks etc. They are high risk / high reward, 'I'm gonna be the hero', plays. Personally I hate that shit: keep the ball and be clinical and ruthless. For me, if there is a difference in his play, it would be that he looks to be under instructions to put up a lot of contestable high kicks, and he's just not accurate enough, more often than not they are too deep and just a straight turnover. When you combine those two things, it's not pretty.
With Savea, he can play different roles in different teams / at different times. The loosies are super confused to me, but if he's getting 'just do your thing' as his instructions, that would go a long way to explaining it. To be fair, Lakai at least did have a clear role against the Poms; however, he's just not big enough, nor was he given the ball in good enough situations for him doing most of our carrying to be a great idea.
Are Savea's multiple roles "Chip kick from the 22" and "Don't pass to unmarked players in an overlap"? Or just "Don't clean at a ruck, get ready for another run instead".
Bro, don't ask me what the fuck his role is in this team, I have no idea. But as per @mariner4life he played far tighter in the WC, which was effective.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
Yeah, it's hard to know.
With BB, in many ways he plays the same in every team. He has always kicked the ball away a lot on attack: chipped for himself, cross kicks etc. They are high risk / high reward, 'I'm gonna be the hero', plays. Personally I hate that shit: keep the ball and be clinical and ruthless. For me, if there is a difference in his play, it would be that he looks to be under instructions to put up a lot of contestable high kicks, and he's just not accurate enough, more often than not they are too deep and just a straight turnover. When you combine those two things, it's not pretty.
With Savea, he can play different roles in different teams / at different times. The loosies are super confused to me, but if he's getting 'just do your thing' as his instructions, that would go a long way to explaining it. To be fair, Lakai at least did have a clear role against the Poms; however, he's just not big enough, nor was he given the ball in good enough situations for him doing most of our carrying to be a great idea.
Are Savea's multiple roles "Chip kick from the 22" and "Don't pass to unmarked players in an overlap"? Or just "Don't clean at a ruck, get ready for another run instead".
Bro, don't ask me what the fuck his role is in this team, I have no idea. But as per @mariner4life he played far tighter in the WC, which was effective.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
Yeah, it's hard to know.
With BB, in many ways he plays the same in every team. He has always kicked the ball away a lot on attack: chipped for himself, cross kicks etc. They are high risk / high reward, 'I'm gonna be the hero', plays. Personally I hate that shit: keep the ball and be clinical and ruthless. For me, if there is a difference in his play, it would be that he looks to be under instructions to put up a lot of contestable high kicks, and he's just not accurate enough, more often than not they are too deep and just a straight turnover. When you combine those two things, it's not pretty.
With Savea, he can play different roles in different teams / at different times. The loosies are super confused to me, but if he's getting 'just do your thing' as his instructions, that would go a long way to explaining it. To be fair, Lakai at least did have a clear role against the Poms; however, he's just not big enough, nor was he given the ball in good enough situations for him doing most of our carrying to be a great idea.
Are Savea's multiple roles "Chip kick from the 22" and "Don't pass to unmarked players in an overlap"? Or just "Don't clean at a ruck, get ready for another run instead".
Bro, don't ask me what the fuck his role is in this team, I have no idea. But as per @mariner4life he played far tighter in the WC, which was effective.
Our loose forwards played tighter - none more so than the captain - which suggests that it is partially a game plan. Either way it's the coach's fault and I'd subscribe to the inference Ardie is operating to instructions if he occasionally did what he's not doing because he sees it needs to be done. Something, something leadership...
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The Herald has spoken to several high-profile Kiwi coaches based overseas, who say that while they love their country and want teams in black to win on the world stage, they have no interest in coming home because they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels, and they don’t trust NZR to consistently make good decisions around coaching and management appointments.
Some coaches have said they fear NZR has become dismissive of what it could learn and borrow from other countries and that it has shut itself off entirely from the rest of the world, which is partly why they say the All Blacks’ defensive and attacking patterns are outdated and ineffective.
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@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
i feel its been that way for years, i dont remember him ever playing differently
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Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.the question needs to be asked that if Hansen had applied to be the head coach in 2023, would he have been given the role? -
Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.the question needs to be asked that if Hansen had applied to be the head coach in 2023, would he have been given the role?@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.So he's basically a grifter?
A million bucks a year or whatever to bring in a culture of giving up at halftime and alienate some of the best players in the country.
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The Herald has spoken to several high-profile Kiwi coaches based overseas, who say that while they love their country and want teams in black to win on the world stage, they have no interest in coming home because they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels, and they don’t trust NZR to consistently make good decisions around coaching and management appointments.
Some coaches have said they fear NZR has become dismissive of what it could learn and borrow from other countries and that it has shut itself off entirely from the rest of the world, which is partly why they say the All Blacks’ defensive and attacking patterns are outdated and ineffective.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
The Herald has spoken to several high-profile Kiwi coaches based overseas, who say that while they love their country and want teams in black to win on the world stage, they have no interest in coming home because they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels, and they don’t trust NZR to consistently make good decisions around coaching and management appointments.
Some coaches have said they fear NZR has become dismissive of what it could learn and borrow from other countries and that it has shut itself off entirely from the rest of the world, which is partly why they say the All Blacks’ defensive and attacking patterns are outdated and ineffective.
Well that sounds on target!
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Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.the question needs to be asked that if Hansen had applied to be the head coach in 2023, would he have been given the role?@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.the question needs to be asked that if Hansen had applied to be the head coach in 2023, would he have been given the role?Jesus.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.So he's basically a grifter?
A million bucks a year or whatever to bring in a culture of giving up at halftime and alienate some of the best players in the country.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.So he's basically a grifter?
A million bucks a year or whatever to bring in a culture of giving up at halftime and alienate some of the best players in the country.
Career progression is the best there.
Now you’ve made it you’ve the top of the most prestigious team in the world, which country would you like to turn out for next?
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@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate seeing him and BB flounder this year makes you wonder if both have just been given free reign to do what they want and play what see, rather than a plan that everyone plays.
Razors instructions to Ardie "Hey mate, just do all that good shit you did for MP okay?"
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.So he's basically a grifter?
A million bucks a year or whatever to bring in a culture of giving up at halftime and alienate some of the best players in the country.
Career progression is the best there.
Now you’ve made it you’ve the top of the most prestigious team in the world, which country would you like to turn out for next?
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.So he's basically a grifter?
A million bucks a year or whatever to bring in a culture of giving up at halftime and alienate some of the best players in the country.
Career progression is the best there.
Now you’ve made it you’ve the top of the most prestigious team in the world, which country would you like to turn out for next?
He's the Jacinda Ardern of world rugby. All he needs now is to ask people to be kind
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Another quote from the article @tim linked to
But Robertson’s vision was never for him to undertake the tasks that most would agree constitute the role of head coach – setting the overall playing vision for the team and then overseeing the delivery of that plan. Instead, Robertson pitched himself as a culture coach, responsible for theming campaigns, communicating one-on-one with players to manage their expectations and career progression. As Robertson confirmed to the Herald this week in Cardiff, it is his assistant, Scott Hansen, who effectively operates in the role most would recognise as the head coach.the question needs to be asked that if Hansen had applied to be the head coach in 2023, would he have been given the role?I've come to view that Robertson is lazy and picks up a big salary for a few motivational talks and doing press conferences.
Scott Hansen is inflexible and can't adapt his selections, his game plan or his coaching to reality.
Both need to go!
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You look at that fucking pukey video they did on him around the Mt when he got the job and you just want to see people fired inside and outside NZRU.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
You look at that fucking pukey video they did on him around the Mt when he got the job and you just want to see people fired inside and outside NZRU.
The fanboy wankfest of that made me want to spew.
Utterly embarrassing and indirectly very insulting to Ian Foster.
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Clearly the appointment process needs another revamp.
Obviously did so when Henry was reappointed.
Then shows cracks when Foster was appointed, and then Razor, who on the surface deserved his shot.
What id like to know, in the process, what did he sell them on?
His farm metaphors? Building depth? What his idea of culture would look like?
Was it this is the team i want to work with, and only them?Or were they just dazzled by his success that all but demanded the job?
Were there KPIs, based on, you know, success? Win/loss? TRCs, Bledisloe?
They surely learnt when they had buggar all measures in place for Fozzie, why didnt they have some strict ones for Razor, that could see him done if he didnt meet them at Yr 1 or 2?
This is meant to be an elite professional organisation, with arguably one of the most winning cultures in all of sport, but we dont have the coaches role tied to winning?
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The Herald has spoken to several high-profile Kiwi coaches based overseas, who say that while they love their country and want teams in black to win on the world stage, they have no interest in coming home because they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels, and they don’t trust NZR to consistently make good decisions around coaching and management appointments.
Some coaches have said they fear NZR has become dismissive of what it could learn and borrow from other countries and that it has shut itself off entirely from the rest of the world, which is partly why they say the All Blacks’ defensive and attacking patterns are outdated and ineffective.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels
I've been thinking that for quite a while.
Been lurking on this forum for probably 2 decades; never felt the need to make a comment until the last few seasons, when it has become clear and obvious to me that elite NZ rugby has begun a slow slide, heading towards mediocrity.
I've mentioned more than once that we should be looking past the likes of Robertson and the national coaching set-up for the origin of the malaise into which high-performance rugby in NZ has been slipping.
Not just the seniors, but all the Black teams; U18s, and the ladies, all of them.It's the NZR high-performance (Pro rugby) department that needs a clean-out.
If the HP dept recommended the appointment of Robertson to the NZR board on the basis of his pitch as a "culture coach," they should be booted right now.Of all the head honchos in the current NZR hierarchy; i have got the most faith in Kirk to identify the problems, and get the correct "adjustments" implemented.
We are of a similar vintage/background, so i'm making the assumption that his thoughts are along the same lines as mine.
Smart guy, and he looks like he could be a prick when he needs to be.He needs to kick the hubris out the NZR HP dept.
Before the slide becomes clear and obvious to everyone. -
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels
I've been thinking that for quite a while.
Been lurking on this forum for probably 2 decades; never felt the need to make a comment until the last few seasons, when it has become clear and obvious to me that elite NZ rugby has begun a slow slide, heading towards mediocrity.
I've mentioned more than once that we should be looking past the likes of Robertson and the national coaching set-up for the origin of the malaise into which high-performance rugby in NZ has been slipping.
Not just the seniors, but all the Black teams; U18s, and the ladies, all of them.It's the NZR high-performance (Pro rugby) department that needs a clean-out.
If the HP dept recommended the appointment of Robertson to the NZR board on the basis of his pitch as a "culture coach," they should be booted right now.Of all the head honchos in the current NZR hierarchy; i have got the most faith in Kirk to identify the problems, and get the correct "adjustments" implemented.
We are of a similar vintage/background, so i'm making the assumption that his thoughts are along the same lines as mine.
Smart guy, and he looks like he could be a prick when he needs to be.He needs to kick the hubris out the NZR HP dept.
Before the slide becomes clear and obvious to everyone.@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
Before the slide becomes clear and obvious to everyone.
Any semi-astute observer (including all our opposition) will have latched onto this.
Our challenge now is ot reverse it. That's not just the coach. Development, comps, talent ID etc all need a really good look.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels
I've been thinking that for quite a while.
Been lurking on this forum for probably 2 decades; never felt the need to make a comment until the last few seasons, when it has become clear and obvious to me that elite NZ rugby has begun a slow slide, heading towards mediocrity.
I've mentioned more than once that we should be looking past the likes of Robertson and the national coaching set-up for the origin of the malaise into which high-performance rugby in NZ has been slipping.
Not just the seniors, but all the Black teams; U18s, and the ladies, all of them.It's the NZR high-performance (Pro rugby) department that needs a clean-out.
If the HP dept recommended the appointment of Robertson to the NZR board on the basis of his pitch as a "culture coach," they should be booted right now.Of all the head honchos in the current NZR hierarchy; i have got the most faith in Kirk to identify the problems, and get the correct "adjustments" implemented.
We are of a similar vintage/background, so i'm making the assumption that his thoughts are along the same lines as mine.
Smart guy, and he looks like he could be a prick when he needs to be.He needs to kick the hubris out the NZR HP dept.
Before the slide becomes clear and obvious to everyone. -
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
You look at that fucking pukey video they did on him around the Mt when he got the job and you just want to see people fired inside and outside NZRU.
The fanboy wankfest of that made me want to spew.
Utterly embarrassing and indirectly very insulting to Ian Foster.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:
You look at that fucking pukey video they did on him around the Mt when he got the job and you just want to see people fired inside and outside NZRU.
The fanboy wankfest of that made me want to spew.
Utterly embarrassing and indirectly very insulting to Ian Foster.
I don't think it was indirect.
