Wales v All Blacks

Bones

Yeah, I'll roll back my pre match comments, Davidson was light years better than I thought she'd be. However, yet another fucked up bizarre decision against black that you've never seen before and never will again with that disallowed try.

Young Hamiltons

The Death of Rugby’s Soul

When the whistle eventually became louder than the war cry and the urge to hit hard and deliver.

You used to feel it.
The haka wasn’t just a dance—it was a warning.
That what came next wasn’t going to be measured by overly rigid rules.
It was going to be survived.

Now, it’s paused.
Replayed. Re-examined.
Penalised.

Footage rewound from angles wound up to the hilt.
While we all wait.
Flow dissected.
Every tackle frozen. Every heartbeat held hostage to a technician’s click of the mouse.

A great game has become a courtroom.
And the joy it brought got traded for overly officious jurisprudence.

We told ourselves this was progress.
That safety demanded scrutiny.
That fairness lived in the margins.

But somewhere, the true gladiators left the field in the process.

They're replaced by yellow cards that effectively kill the contest.
Not for brutality—but for milliseconds.
Late by a frame. High by an inch. Offside by a toe.

It's so boring from the spectators.

I blame league for causing it.
They started it.
But they've smartened up.
Now their bunker doesn't intervene.
They only can on a captain's challenge
Otherwise the referees ruling stands
And even if there is foul play they're generally put on report
So the spectators aren't penalised

And just like that, fourteen men fight fifteen or even less.
Not because of dominance, but decimals.

The Richie McCaw the greatest number 7 we ever saw?
He'd be carded before halftime.
Penalised for instinct.
TMO'd out of greatness.

The master of chaos.
The lord of the dark arts.
General of the unspoken war inside the war.

He’d have been gone in 20 minutes.
TMO’d. Yellowed. Cited. Sanitized.

Not because he was dirty.
Because he understood what real test rugby demanded.

Because genius doesn’t slow down.

It doesn’t ask for permission before it pounces.

But the modern game does and it makes the game longer and more boring in the process.

It has lost its aura just like the All Blacks have lost theirs

It's not because of the players they're just scrutinised to the nth degree and penalised for unintentional contact in many cases

And in doing so—
it shackled the very thing that once made the All Blacks feared.

They weren’t perfect.
They were relentless.
They turned chaos into clarity. Turnovers into terror.
Felt inevitable before they ever crossed the line.

Now?
You wonder who’s next up on the monitor.
Not who’s next up with the ball.

The whistle controls the games momentum more than it ever has.
The broadcasters are in in the act finding minor indescretions are replaying them over and over.
The referee supposedly controls the result and yet the TMO has become the rugby god and the players mere underlings.
And the aura? What aura?

It slipped quietly through the cracks in the TMO rulebook.

They don’t roar like they used to.
Not even the haka is sacred any more. (especially the English)
Not the crowd.
Not the men in black.

Something else moves first now.
Before the player.
Before the hit.
Before the game.

It’s the screen.

Pause. Rewind. Freeze.

The moment where history was made—
Now becomes the moment it's unmade.

This isn’t rugby. Not like we once knew it.
The collisions used to write legends.
Now they trigger immediate caution.
Review.
Judgement.

TMO. Three dreaded letters that feel clinical.
But what they cut away isn’t just foul play.
It’s stifled instinct. Pace. Pressure. Flow.
It’s the edge rugby once lived on.

And with every yellow, every soft red—
Every head clash treated like a crime—
Another piece of that old game dies.

They say it’s for safety.
But what’s safe about a sport stripped of risk?

Where the game’s best moments—
A perfectly-timed cleanout
A contest in the air
A fierce breakdown counter—
Now live under a microscope.

Not in motion.
In suspicion.

The All Black aura?
It wasn’t just the jersey.
It was how they bent the game under pressure.
How they played to the edge without the scrutiny of four camera angles
and dared you to follow.

But you can’t intimidate a referee.
Or unsettle a TMO in a bunker.
And you sure as hell can’t control a match
When every action lives under such microscopic scrutiny.

Rugby wasn’t built to be fair.
It was built to be fierce.

The beauty of it lived in the clash of chaos and control.

And the best teams?
They danced between both.

Now?
They tiptoe.

And when you watch the men in black today
Do you feel that old weight?
That fear?
That certainty they would find a way?

Or do you see hesitation.
Compliance.
Adaptation.

That’s not their failure.
It’s the judicial system’s success.
It tamed the game.
And in doing so—
It tamed its kings.

Not with better rugby.
But with better angles.

And when the whistle blows now?
It doesn’t feel like rugby.
It feels like judgment.

Not of the play.
Of the player.
Of the past.

And that,
more than any scoreboard,
is how the All Black aura died along with the spectacle. Borrowed from a disappointed rugby fan.

MajorPom

Overall, I have no problems with the referee, she did a good job and allowed the game to flow. CAn't complain about that.

However, I have real issues with the double no award try. The process around both was absolutely infuriating. It maybe that the correct decisions were reached (more about that later), but the WR sanctioned process about it is complete and utter bullshit.

Was it a clear knock-on? Perhaps, although I was unconvinced as no angles of the replay seemed to show it side on. If it had been called in realtime, fair enough, if it had been called immediate after the try, then again, fair enough. If the TMO can't spot the damn thing before the conversion, then why should they be given more time? There are shot clocks now to speed up the game, so the damn TMO should be under the same rule. Ridiculous to have it disallowed after the conversion. Again, this is no slight on the refereeing team, it's on whoever makes the fucking stupid soul destroying rules.
The rear angle showed a hand underneath it, no question. However, it wasn't clear and obvious that it never touched the line from the other angle. Once Davidson had said "i have a clear grounding", then thats it. What is the point of showing a held up from a different angle? I squarely blame the TMO here. He kept pressing, and once again, seriously slowing the game down. The TMO should have said "you have the better view, thus if you have clear grounding, try is awarded".

It's beyond belief that anybody from WR could watch that and feel satisfied that it's working as it should.

Bones

TMO clearly said stick with your on field decision. That Davidson went against all protocol with an absolute melt decision is not his fault.

Mr Fish

@MajorPom said in Wales v All Blacks:

Overall, I have no problems with the referee, she did a good job and allowed the game to flow. CAn't complain about that.

However, I have real issues with the double no award try. The process around both was absolutely infuriating. It maybe that the correct decisions were reached (more about that later), but the WR sanctioned process about it is complete and utter bullshit.

Was it a clear knock-on? Perhaps, although I was unconvinced as no angles of the replay seemed to show it side on. If it had been called in realtime, fair enough, if it had been called immediate after the try, then again, fair enough. If the TMO can't spot the damn thing before the conversion, then why should they be given more time? There are shot clocks now to speed up the game, so the damn TMO should be under the same rule. Ridiculous to have it disallowed after the conversion. Again, this is no slight on the refereeing team, it's on whoever makes the fucking stupid soul destroying rules.

The rear angle showed a hand underneath it, no question. However, it wasn't clear and obvious that it never touched the line from the other angle. Once Davidson had said "i have a clear grounding", then thats it. What is the point of showing a held up from a different angle? I squarely blame the TMO here. He kept pressing, and once again, seriously slowing the game down. The TMO should have said "you have the better view, thus if you have clear grounding, try is awarded".

It's beyond belief that anybody from WR could watch that and feel satisfied that it's working as it should.

Because the ball was held up before Davidson saw it grounded. It's no different to if the ball was knocked on before Davidson saw it grounded. If something's happened before the ball is grounded, that takes precedent, even if the referee hasn't seen it...

Bones

@Mr-Fish held up before grounding is in no way the same as a knock on. The ball is grounded, that's all there is to it.

mohikamo

@MiketheSnow said in Wales v All Blacks:

He waved things off yesterday which were YC and even RC worthy

Rather that, than see YCs and RCs that aren't worthy.

mohikamo

@MajorPom said in Wales v All Blacks:

Ridiculous to have it disallowed after the conversion.

I'd have thought once it was converted that would have been it.
Should have been "whatever", too f'n late now, it's done, move on.

Victor Meldrew

@MajorPom said in Wales v All Blacks:

There are shot clocks now to speed up the game, so the damn TMO should be under the same rule. Ridiculous to have it disallowed after the conversion.

Bloody great idea.

Applauding what looks a brilliant try, only to have some pistonwristedgibbon go back multiple phases to find a reason not to award it is killing the game.

Jet

@Young-Hamiltons said in Wales v All Blacks:

The Death of Rugby’s Soul

When the whistle eventually became louder than the war cry and the urge to hit hard and deliver.

You used to feel it.
The haka wasn’t just a dance—it was a warning.
That what came next wasn’t going to be measured by overly rigid rules.
It was going to be survived.

Now, it’s paused.
Replayed. Re-examined.
Penalised.

Footage rewound from angles wound up to the hilt.
While we all wait.
Flow dissected.
Every tackle frozen. Every heartbeat held hostage to a technician’s click of the mouse.

A great game has become a courtroom.
And the joy it brought got traded for overly officious jurisprudence.

We told ourselves this was progress.
That safety demanded scrutiny.
That fairness lived in the margins.

But somewhere, the true gladiators left the field in the process.

They're replaced by yellow cards that effectively kill the contest.
Not for brutality—but for milliseconds.
Late by a frame. High by an inch. Offside by a toe.

It's so boring from the spectators.

I blame league for causing it.
They started it.
But they've smartened up.
Now their bunker doesn't intervene.
They only can on a captain's challenge
Otherwise the referees ruling stands
And even if there is foul play they're generally put on report
So the spectators aren't penalised

And just like that, fourteen men fight fifteen or even less.
Not because of dominance, but decimals.

The Richie McCaw the greatest number 7 we ever saw?
He'd be carded before halftime.
Penalised for instinct.
TMO'd out of greatness.

The master of chaos.
The lord of the dark arts.
General of the unspoken war inside the war.

He’d have been gone in 20 minutes.
TMO’d. Yellowed. Cited. Sanitized.

Not because he was dirty.
Because he understood what real test rugby demanded.

Because genius doesn’t slow down.

It doesn’t ask for permission before it pounces.

But the modern game does and it makes the game longer and more boring in the process.

It has lost its aura just like the All Blacks have lost theirs

It's not because of the players they're just scrutinised to the nth degree and penalised for unintentional contact in many cases

And in doing so—
it shackled the very thing that once made the All Blacks feared.

They weren’t perfect.
They were relentless.
They turned chaos into clarity. Turnovers into terror.
Felt inevitable before they ever crossed the line.

Now?
You wonder who’s next up on the monitor.
Not who’s next up with the ball.

The whistle controls the games momentum more than it ever has.
The broadcasters are in in the act finding minor indescretions are replaying them over and over.
The referee supposedly controls the result and yet the TMO has become the rugby god and the players mere underlings.
And the aura? What aura?

It slipped quietly through the cracks in the TMO rulebook.

They don’t roar like they used to.
Not even the haka is sacred any more. (especially the English)
Not the crowd.
Not the men in black.

Something else moves first now.
Before the player.
Before the hit.
Before the game.

It’s the screen.

Pause. Rewind. Freeze.

The moment where history was made—
Now becomes the moment it's unmade.

This isn’t rugby. Not like we once knew it.
The collisions used to write legends.
Now they trigger immediate caution.
Review.
Judgement.

TMO. Three dreaded letters that feel clinical.
But what they cut away isn’t just foul play.
It’s stifled instinct. Pace. Pressure. Flow.
It’s the edge rugby once lived on.

And with every yellow, every soft red—
Every head clash treated like a crime—
Another piece of that old game dies.

They say it’s for safety.
But what’s safe about a sport stripped of risk?

Where the game’s best moments—
A perfectly-timed cleanout
A contest in the air
A fierce breakdown counter—
Now live under a microscope.

Not in motion.
In suspicion.

The All Black aura?
It wasn’t just the jersey.
It was how they bent the game under pressure.
How they played to the edge without the scrutiny of four camera angles
and dared you to follow.

But you can’t intimidate a referee.
Or unsettle a TMO in a bunker.
And you sure as hell can’t control a match
When every action lives under such microscopic scrutiny.

Rugby wasn’t built to be fair.
It was built to be fierce.

The beauty of it lived in the clash of chaos and control.

And the best teams?
They danced between both.

Now?
They tiptoe.

And when you watch the men in black today
Do you feel that old weight?
That fear?
That certainty they would find a way?

Or do you see hesitation.
Compliance.
Adaptation.

That’s not their failure.
It’s the judicial system’s success.
It tamed the game.
And in doing so—
It tamed its kings.

Not with better rugby.
But with better angles.

And when the whistle blows now?
It doesn’t feel like rugby.
It feels like judgment.

Not of the play.
Of the player.
Of the past.

And that,
more than any scoreboard,
is how the All Black aura died along with the spectacle. Borrowed from a disappointed rugby fan.

Thats a superbly written piece.

MajorPom

@Mr-Fish said in Wales v All Blacks:

Because the ball was held up before Davidson saw it grounded. It's no different to if the ball was knocked on before Davidson saw it grounded. If something's happened before the ball is grounded, that takes precedent, even if the referee hasn't seen it...

If the ball was held up, it needs to remain held up. We've seen plenty of instances before when it's initially held up then the attacker wrestles free to get it on the line.

This ball was not 6 inches above the line, it was half an inch at most, with plenty of perspective available for it to have touched the ground & the ref saw it touch and awarded it. She hadn't blown the whistle, she hadn't called time off. Game was still in play.

Maybe in the rules of the game, it was the 100% correct decision. Honestly, I don't really care. I just like a game ref'd by the ref. Not by the TMO.

Jet

@MajorPom said in Wales v All Blacks:

@Mr-Fish said in Wales v All Blacks:

Because the ball was held up before Davidson saw it grounded. It's no different to if the ball was knocked on before Davidson saw it grounded. If something's happened before the ball is grounded, that takes precedent, even if the referee hasn't seen it...

If the ball was held up, it needs to remain held up. We've seen plenty of instances before when it's initially held up then the attacker wrestles free to get it on the line.

This ball was not 6 inches above the line, it was half an inch at most, with plenty of perspective available for it to have touched the ground & the ref saw it touch and awarded it. She hadn't blown the whistle, she hadn't called time off. Game was still in play.

Maybe in the rules of the game, it was the 100% correct decision. Honestly, I don't really care. I just like a game ref'd by the ref. Not by the TMO.

100% this.

mohikamo

@Victor-Meldrew

everything should be on the clock

scrums
goal-kicks
kick-offs
line-outs
TMO
etc
and even injuries, a lot of them are just rest breaks

as soon as the ref blows the whistle, the clock should start
40 seconds would be about right (same as NFL)
and get the TMO to actually run the clock!
all they are good for
then the game gets restarted, no matter what

Mr Fish

@Bones said in Wales v All Blacks:

@Mr-Fish held up before grounding is in no way the same as a knock on. The ball is grounded, that's all there is to it.

I agree with you, the ball isn't held up for long enough and it should be play on. But my point was that the TMO wasn't disputing that the ball was eventually grounded, he was saying that it was held up first. It wasn't a case that it looked held up from one angle but grounded from another.

Bones

@Mr-Fish said in Wales v All Blacks:

@Bones said in Wales v All Blacks:

@Mr-Fish held up before grounding is in no way the same as a knock on. The ball is grounded, that's all there is to it.

I agree with you, the ball isn't held up for long enough and it should be play on. But my point was that the TMO wasn't disputing that the ball was eventually grounded, he was saying that it was held up first. It wasn't a case that it looked held up from one angle but grounded from another.

Yeah, did she refer it or did the tmo interject? Pretty bad if he wasn't even asked and she's already said she's seen a try. Still, she's the one that wound it back with zero justification.

Dan54

@brodean said in Wales v All Blacks:

@kidcalder said in Wales v All Blacks:

@brodean said in Wales v All Blacks:

I would have really liked to have seen Love get a run at 10. What are they afraid of?

Thats RM jersey and BB is keepng it mediocre until he is available= no point anyone being allowed the opportunity to shine and make the changeover more complex

25 minutes to go with the game well won and they could have moved him to 10 but instead they take him off for Reece.

Was he injured or something? I thought he looked gassed in second half, seemed to lose a bit of fizz after halftime.

nostrildamus

@Dan54 said in Wales v All Blacks:

Was he injured or something? I thought he looked gassed in second half, seemed to lose a bit of fizz after halftime.

ankle

booboo

@nostrildamus said in Wales v All Blacks:

@sparky said in Wales v All Blacks:

@nostrildamus 60-61 according to Wikipedia. He was born in 1964.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Devlin

I must have the wrong guy, he's practically an embryo!*

*dramatic Fern effect.

Murray Deaker? He was an alchy.

DurryMexted

Was a stark difference with Dmac and Love in the pivots. Front foot ball, defenders werent just sliding onto the next reciever, faster pace of play, variance in carrying and depth. Just seeing two guys keen to get their hands on the ball was extremely refreshing.

nostrildamus

@booboo said in Wales v All Blacks:

Murray Deaker? He was an alchy.

That's it! Sorry Devlin!

The Silver Fern

Wales v All Blacks