All Blacks 2025
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.
There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.
I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.
I can't recall a game this season where I felt we dominated. Maybe one of the Bleds. But we hung on in at least a couple of those games. Our defence is so leaky. We have serious issues, if Razor stays he will be the figurehead and should lose all of his assistants as a consequence
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.
There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.
I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.
I can't recall a game this season where I felt we dominated. Maybe one of the Bleds. But we hung on in at least a couple of those games. Our defence is so leaky. We have serious issues, if Razor stays he will be the figurehead and should lose all of his assistants as a consequence
Absolutely can’t recall a game we have dominated start to finish - but the flip of that is we haven’t exactly been dominated start to finish by other sides.
Easy to forget we were the better side in the first half against the Boks in Wellington.
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I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.
There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.
I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.
There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.
I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.
With the recent information that Robertson isn't actually the head coach (or any coach) at all, finding a new assistant is actually finding a new head coach. And which quality head coach will be happy to be an assistant while the guy with the job title and salary does nothing but come up with themes and metaphors?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
From the outside we’re only guessing at what the actual issues are, but I suspect the big one, is the none Crusaders players, in large, don’t like Scott Hansen, and with results going poorly there is not a 100% but in.
I actually reckon there is a fair chance that Robertson is at the very least not actively disliked - because I think if he was he would be out the door given the way player power works in the modern environment.
In hindsight, he backed the wrong horse with Hansen and should have crafted a different coaching team.
As I have said previously, given the issues, it might be easier to start again with a new head coach, as finding the right assistant coach, who a) is up to the task, and b) is accepted by the players is probably a little more difficult than we pretend it is
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
From the outside we’re only guessing at what the actual issues are, but I suspect the big one, is the none Crusaders players, in large, don’t like Scott Hansen, and with results going poorly there is not a 100% but in.
I actually reckon there is a fair chance that Robertson is at the very least not actively disliked - because I think if he was he would be out the door given the way player power works in the modern environment.
In hindsight, he backed the wrong horse with Hansen and should have crafted a different coaching team.
As I have said previously, given the issues, it might be easier to start again with a new head coach, as finding the right assistant coach, who a) is up to the task, and b) is accepted by the players is probably a little more difficult than we pretend it is
You mean a competent assistant who is prepared to work with Razor and do all the actual coaching?
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.
There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.
I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.
I can't recall a game this season where I felt we dominated. Maybe one of the Bleds. But we hung on in at least a couple of those games. Our defence is so leaky. We have serious issues, if Razor stays he will be the figurehead and should lose all of his assistants as a consequence
Absolutely can’t recall a game we have dominated start to finish - but the flip of that is we haven’t exactly been dominated start to finish by other sides.
Easy to forget we were the better side in the first half against the Boks in Wellington.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.
There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.
I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.
I can't recall a game this season where I felt we dominated. Maybe one of the Bleds. But we hung on in at least a couple of those games. Our defence is so leaky. We have serious issues, if Razor stays he will be the figurehead and should lose all of his assistants as a consequence
Absolutely can’t recall a game we have dominated start to finish - but the flip of that is we haven’t exactly been dominated start to finish by other sides.
Easy to forget we were the better side in the first half against the Boks in Wellington.
No we weren't.
And we weren't in the first half against England either.
We were close-ish, and had a little luck on our side. Not enough luck to make up for being worse over 80 minutes. -
For all we've been shit, I think the backs problems are basically solved if we jettison BB. It does mean new things to iron out, as McKenzie is not the complete package at 10 yet, and we've wasted a year and a half where we could have been sorting that out and building combinations - but what's done is done. Every time McKenzie played significant minutes at 10, we've gone from one of the worst attacking sides to one making a lot of metres.
Our defence needs work of course, a new coach there. Someone mentioned the Blues guy?
We also need a scrum coach, as that has gone backwards.
We need some work on our positioning of support players around high kicks, but that shouldn't be very hard.The loosies for me is the only hard question.
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Razor is not going to walk, NZR ain't gonna give him the boot, whether they are going to man up and.try to move his assistants along, who knows, but even if they do, who is knocking on the door to join this team?
Who is in line to replace Holland who has jumped ship.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
It could've been worse... had France sent their A side instead of C team we would've most likely lost the June series 2-1.
@restofit said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.
It could've been worse... had France sent their A side instead of C team we would've most likely lost the June series 2-1.
Although even the top French side have been leaky on D like us as well
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@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
Let’s start from the back
Love, Jordan, Clarke
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
Let’s start from the back
Love, Jordan, Clarke
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
Let’s start from the back
Love, Jordan, Clarke
Clarke, Love, Jordan?
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For all we've been shit, I think the backs problems are basically solved if we jettison BB. It does mean new things to iron out, as McKenzie is not the complete package at 10 yet, and we've wasted a year and a half where we could have been sorting that out and building combinations - but what's done is done. Every time McKenzie played significant minutes at 10, we've gone from one of the worst attacking sides to one making a lot of metres.
Our defence needs work of course, a new coach there. Someone mentioned the Blues guy?
We also need a scrum coach, as that has gone backwards.
We need some work on our positioning of support players around high kicks, but that shouldn't be very hard.The loosies for me is the only hard question.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
For all we've been shit, I think the backs problems are basically solved if we jettison BB. It does mean new things to iron out, as McKenzie is not the complete package at 10 yet, and we've wasted a year and a half where we could have been sorting that out and building combinations - but what's done is done. Every time McKenzie played significant minutes at 10, we've gone from one of the worst attacking sides to one making a lot of metres.
Our defence needs work of course, a new coach there. Someone mentioned the Blues guy?
We also need a scrum coach, as that has gone backwards.
We need some work on our positioning of support players around high kicks, but that shouldn't be very hard.The loosies for me is the only hard question.
Thoughts
- If Razor had jettisoned BB, we wouldn't want his head on the block in the first place
- We have no idea about certain combinations because Razor refused to rotate and experiment
Unless he is forced to change, ie an assistant is installed that has greater power, he won't change
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
Let’s start from the back
Love, Jordan, Clarke
Clarke, Love, Jordan?
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
Let’s start from the back
Love, Jordan, Clarke
Clarke, Love, Jordan?
After all the bitching and moaning on here about how teams are presented by the NH I went the numerical route
15, 14, 11
Add in DMac and Roigard at 10 & 9 respectively and there's 5/7 of your back line sorted
If Robertson et al can’t see that then they should have gone to Specsavers
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Jordan the best at 15? No Etzebeth?
He's tall, but a bit slow
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
Jordan the best at 15? No Etzebeth?
He's tall, but a bit slow
you knew what I meant! But, funny!
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
Let’s start from the back
Love, Jordan, Clarke
Clarke, Love, Jordan?
After all the bitching and moaning on here about how teams are presented by the NH I went the numerical route
15, 14, 11
Add in DMac and Roigard at 10 & 9 respectively and there's 5/7 of your back line sorted
If Robertson et al can’t see that then they should have gone to Specsavers
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
Let’s start from the back
Love, Jordan, Clarke
Clarke, Love, Jordan?
After all the bitching and moaning on here about how teams are presented by the NH I went the numerical route
15, 14, 11
Add in DMac and Roigard at 10 & 9 respectively and there's 5/7 of your back line sorted
If Robertson et al can’t see that then they should have gone to Specsavers
Worst front row ever.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
Let’s start from the back
Love, Jordan, Clarke
Clarke, Love, Jordan?
After all the bitching and moaning on here about how teams are presented by the NH I went the numerical route
15, 14, 11
Add in DMac and Roigard at 10 & 9 respectively and there's 5/7 of your back line sorted
If Robertson et al can’t see that then they should have gone to Specsavers
Worst front row ever.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?
Let’s start from the back
Love, Jordan, Clarke
Clarke, Love, Jordan?
After all the bitching and moaning on here about how teams are presented by the NH I went the numerical route
15, 14, 11
Add in DMac and Roigard at 10 & 9 respectively and there's 5/7 of your back line sorted
If Robertson et al can’t see that then they should have gone to Specsavers
Worst front row ever.
Is that you Razor?
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For all we've been shit, I think the backs problems are basically solved if we jettison BB. It does mean new things to iron out, as McKenzie is not the complete package at 10 yet, and we've wasted a year and a half where we could have been sorting that out and building combinations - but what's done is done. Every time McKenzie played significant minutes at 10, we've gone from one of the worst attacking sides to one making a lot of metres.
Our defence needs work of course, a new coach there. Someone mentioned the Blues guy?
We also need a scrum coach, as that has gone backwards.
We need some work on our positioning of support players around high kicks, but that shouldn't be very hard.The loosies for me is the only hard question.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
For all we've been shit, I think the backs problems are basically solved if we jettison BB. It does mean new things to iron out, as McKenzie is not the complete package at 10 yet
I do wonder if we judge every 10 compared to Dan Carter, every 7 to McCaw (I know Ireland do), and every 12 to Nonu but regardless, I'd argue we have woefully undertested depth at 10, and the example of Beaver should have been imprinted on the coaches' respective foreheads. What was he, option/alternative number 5? And for all the criticism, he was at least tested at AB level beforehand...
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
For all we've been shit, I think the backs problems are basically solved if we jettison BB. It does mean new things to iron out, as McKenzie is not the complete package at 10 yet
I do wonder if we judge every 10 compared to Dan Carter, every 7 to McCaw (I know Ireland do), and every 12 to Nonu but regardless, I'd argue we have woefully undertested depth at 10, and the example of Beaver should have been imprinted on the coaches' respective foreheads. What was he, option/alternative number 5? And for all the criticism, he was at least tested at AB level beforehand...
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@nostrildamus Cruden, Barret, McKenzie and Mo'unga are the only 10s that have been blooded since Donald (who debuted 17 years ago) that currently have more caps than him prior to his 2011 appearance.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus Cruden, Barret, McKenzie and Mo'unga are the only 10s that have been blooded since Donald (who debuted 17 years ago) that currently have more caps than him prior to his 2011 appearance.
Lima Sopoaga?
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus Cruden, Barret, McKenzie and Mo'unga are the only 10s that have been blooded since Donald (who debuted 17 years ago) that currently have more caps than him prior to his 2011 appearance.
Lima Sopoaga?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus Cruden, Barret, McKenzie and Mo'unga are the only 10s that have been blooded since Donald (who debuted 17 years ago) that currently have more caps than him prior to his 2011 appearance.
Lima Sopoaga?
The last out and out 10 that debuted was Josh Ioane in 2019 (for one cap). Absolutely crazy.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus Cruden, Barret, McKenzie and Mo'unga are the only 10s that have been blooded since Donald (who debuted 17 years ago) that currently have more caps than him prior to his 2011 appearance.
Lima Sopoaga?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus Cruden, Barret, McKenzie and Mo'unga are the only 10s that have been blooded since Donald (who debuted 17 years ago) that currently have more caps than him prior to his 2011 appearance.
Lima Sopoaga?
Got about 20 caps - a couple fewer than Donald had in 2011.
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“That’s what we’re trying to do. We’ll take our learnings into next year and we’ll go from there.”
No Mr Holland, your best learnings is to never ever ever use that term again.
Thank you. That would be Fab.
