All Blacks 2026
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are we putting much weight on their win loss ratio against the Boks?
https://www.thepress.co.nz/sport/360933688/dave-rennie-contract-june-and-potentially-open-all-blacks-job-nz-rugby-finetunes-appointment-processInteresting but could be dangerous criterion.
Still seems to me to be a battle between Joseph and Rennie.
DoR/Mentor roles for Smith or Schmidt if they want them (but probably don't).edit: thanks Tim for moving this to right thread. My bad.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
Gee I just had a look at coaching history of JJ, and all the talk he only good with Tony Brown? Best figures were MABs in about 2012 where he has 83% winning record, no Tony Brown , and last year's ABXV .
They kind of make a fallacy of him needing Brown to coach.
And sorry Tim, just saw your post mate, and these figure aren't 20 years out of date,
Got 7 years to spre.i think my feeling is the ABXV is a good test of bring a international squad together and running a wee tour.....but the quality of opposition isn't the same as the top job and so having someone like TB would be the little bit extra needed
I think doing good domestically and with the ABXV can get you to an assistant role, but even then it would be better to have something outside NZ, such as a bit of time with an overseas club or with another international team. Ryan's path looks like a very good one for a specialist (e.g., forward) coach.
For head coaches, I'll admit it is tricky, but I believe that there is a huge difference between season-long rugby and International, especially in a age of WC preparation. I personally wouldn't choose Joseph without Brown, but he has taken a group through a WC cycle.
If it were me, I'd be chasing Rennie with Schmidt as DOR.
Not really arguing strongly for or against anyone mate, just I believe JJ is a more than competent coach with or without Brown. I just pointed out both MABs and ABXV to show that I genuinely believe that Brown isn't or (in my opinion) the ace in sleeve anyone should need. I a Rennie fan too, but once again a critic could ask what international success he has had, and his Super coaching success was only when he had Wayne Smith as his assistant, once Smith went Chiefs didn't win. But once again I happy with either as coach.
Just pointing out we should take coaches on their own ability etc.Rennie has had success with multiple different teams & variety of assistants - Joseph hasn't, only with Brown has he looked good - for example taking 6th place Quarter Finalists under Dermody in 2024 to dead last in 2025 without Brown.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 you mean like 7 years with japan/sunwolves plus TB's time with Japan and in SA?
I don't understand the question
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2026:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2026:
@Kiwidom said in All Blacks 2026:
John " we are all on a journey". Mitchell ? No thanks
Wouldn't mind a Schmidt/ Rennie duo as coaches for now
Joseph and Brown to then takeover from 2028I hate him forever for ending Christian Cullen's All Blacks career.
But his best work with the ABs was excellent (record away wins in South Africa and Australia) and he's coached the England women to long undefeated run.
That Cullen debacle was such a stain on an otherwise good coaching stint. It's not his fault they disallowed Mils's try.
Plus he was a weird guy who was tough to relate to.
He has given us Daryl Mitchell though !
Comfortably his best contribution to NZ sport.
Daryl said he didn't talk to his dad for a week when he dropped Cullen. He's definitely the better Mitchell.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
Gee I just had a look at coaching history of JJ, and all the talk he only good with Tony Brown? Best figures were MABs in about 2012 where he has 83% winning record, no Tony Brown , and last year's ABXV .
They kind of make a fallacy of him needing Brown to coach.
And sorry Tim, just saw your post mate, and these figure aren't 20 years out of date,
Got 7 years to spre.i think my feeling is the ABXV is a good test of bring a international squad together and running a wee tour.....but the quality of opposition isn't the same as the top job and so having someone like TB would be the little bit extra needed
I think doing good domestically and with the ABXV can get you to an assistant role, but even then it would be better to have something outside NZ, such as a bit of time with an overseas club or with another international team. Ryan's path looks like a very good one for a specialist (e.g., forward) coach.
For head coaches, I'll admit it is tricky, but I believe that there is a huge difference between season-long rugby and International, especially in a age of WC preparation. I personally wouldn't choose Joseph without Brown, but he has taken a group through a WC cycle.
If it were me, I'd be chasing Rennie with Schmidt as DOR.
Not really arguing strongly for or against anyone mate, just I believe JJ is a more than competent coach with or without Brown. I just pointed out both MABs and ABXV to show that I genuinely believe that Brown isn't or (in my opinion) the ace in sleeve anyone should need. I a Rennie fan too, but once again a critic could ask what international success he has had, and his Super coaching success was only when he had Wayne Smith as his assistant, once Smith went Chiefs didn't win. But once again I happy with either as coach.
Just pointing out we should take coaches on their own ability etc.I think JJ is the choice they'll make, and he has plenty of international experience, which is the point I made. He does know what is involved with international footy and has taken a team through a WC cycle, so he certainly meets the criteria I would say is essential.
I just think Rennie would be a better choice, although he was cut off before getting to a WC, he was really doing well with a young Australian team and had them set up to be a force over a longer period. Oz didn't have any patience and gambled with Jones, which I believe was a mistake.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 you mean like 7 years with japan/sunwolves plus TB's time with Japan and in SA?
I don't understand the question
I said i thought TB added a bit more to JJ's capabilities, where JJ's time with the ABXV was good, the top job would be more challenging and TB would but an asset and you replied
I think doing good domestically and with the ABXV can get you to an assistant role, but even then it would be better to have something outside NZ, such as a bit of time with an overseas club or with another international team.
and so i was just saying both of them have experience in Japan plus TB's time in SA
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@allblackfan2 said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:
Gee I just had a look at coaching history of JJ, and all the talk he only good with Tony Brown? Best figures were MABs in about 2012 where he has 83% winning record, no Tony Brown , and last year's ABXV .
They kind of make a fallacy of him needing Brown to coach.
And sorry Tim, just saw your post mate, and these figure aren't 20 years out of date,
Got 7 years to spre.i think my feeling is the ABXV is a good test of bring a international squad together and running a wee tour.....but the quality of opposition isn't the same as the top job and so having someone like TB would be the little bit extra needed
I think doing good domestically and with the ABXV can get you to an assistant role, but even then it would be better to have something outside NZ, such as a bit of time with an overseas club or with another international team. Ryan's path looks like a very good one for a specialist (e.g., forward) coach.
For head coaches, I'll admit it is tricky, but I believe that there is a huge difference between season-long rugby and International, especially in a age of WC preparation. I personally wouldn't choose Joseph without Brown, but he has taken a group through a WC cycle.
If it were me, I'd be chasing Rennie with Schmidt as DOR.
And assistants? Leon McDonald and Jason Ryan have been referenced her as likely to be involved, how about a non NZ/SH AC to add to the mix? And if so, would Ronan O'Gara be a suitable option?
That would be up to Rennie, but I'd be very happy with Cotter for the forwards if they could snag him, or keep Ryan.
I'm not convinced about Panadol at all, but would be happy to be proven wrong.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 I said i thought TB added a bit more to JJ's capabilities, where JJ's time with the ABXV was good, the top job would be more challenging and TB would but an asset and you replied
I think doing good domestically and with the ABXV can get you to an assistant role, but even then it would be better to have something outside NZ, such as a bit of time with an overseas club or with another international team.
and so i was just saying both of them have experience in Japan plus TB's time in SA
I still don't get it
Edit: I see you've edited your post.
you made a point about being the ABXV coach, which is what I replied to, as that doesn't only account for Joseph, but also McMillan for example. So, I'm replying to the specific point about time with the ABXV, not about JJ's qualifications.
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@gt12 i'll try one more time and then maybe we just move on
you said performing well with the ABXV might be good enough to get an assitant role but would be good to have international experience....and i was just pointing out JJ and TB already have that
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I replied to your edited post. My point was not about JJ but time with the ABXV.
JJ has both, some, such as McMillan, do not.
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Obviously my preference is Rennie, I think he's the best guy to build a team in a short amount of time, and has coaching experience that includes the best cattle (U20s), average cattle (Poo/Wobs), building a successful team from an average team with a mix of cattle (Chiefs), listening to his cattle when they say something's not working (Wellington NPC champs), and overseas roles (Oz, Japan, Scotland).
But, if JJ is their guy then I'm ok with that, I think that JJ brings a lot of the qualities that Rennie does as well.
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Can Joseph and Rennie work together? Would Joseph be willing to be an assistant coach for a couple (or potentially more) years? What would their roles/areas be?
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Who applies might be dependent on whether this is just a 2-yr appointment until the RWC, or there is the potential for renewal if the NZR board are satisfied the problems have been addressed and progress made. An older, more experienced coach like Rennie and Cotter might be happy to commit for 2 years only knowing they get their opportunity, whereas Joseph might prefer to wait until 2027 and hopefully have a full 4-yr cycle.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2026:
Who applies might be dependent on whether this is just a 2-yr appointment until the RWC, or there is the potential for renewal if the NZR board are satisfied the problems have been addressed and progress made. An older, more experienced coach like Rennie and Cotter might be happy to commit for 2 years only knowing they get their opportunity, whereas Joseph might prefer to wait until 2027 and hopefully have a full 4-yr cycle.
Either way they should all know now their performance will dictate whether they get to keep their job; Razor got a clean slate and didn't last the full cycle so the precedent is set. On the flipside I expect the board will take into account the less than ideal circumstances when assessing the new coaches' performance. Either way a full cycle is no guarantee of job security. As it should be
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:
building a successful team from an average team with a mix of cattle (Chiefs)
this. if you look at a few of the names on those Chiefs team sheets, they don't screen "back to back champs". He cleaned up the whole game plan, made everything more accurate, and got guys playing well above themselves.
He did wonders with the Wallabies too. The win/loss wasn't great, but he had a squad smashed with injuries, and went within a couple of points of beating Ireland and France away. Firing him for Eddie was the worst thing Australian rugby has ever done.
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@mariner4life yeah, i always thought things looks like they were stabilising under rennie for the wallabies....they just fell hook line and sinker for eddies "smash and grab" world up idea rather than long term improvement
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:
I still strongly disagree with this. All the review and discussions with players did was provide information about issues to be resolved.
If Razor addressed those issues effectively and articulated a credible plan to improve he'd still have a job.
If they hadn't already decided what they were guna do (re the dismissal) they would have definitely thought that they might have to move him on, or they wouldn't have been doing their jobs.
Razor would have had the opportunity to articulate a credible plan to improve and address the issues effectively, but he couldn't, and now he doesn't have a job.
If that is what happened, and it's probably pretty close to it, I'd consider that good governance.
