All Blacks - New Coach Selection
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@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The Ferald strikes again...
That said, one or both of those two in a Wayne Smith type of role wouldn't be a bad thing.
Sorry mate, don't agree with these performance manager roles or Director of Rugby or whatever, they just another shit job that shouldn't be needed.
NZR have tried it once with Wayne Smith, and both coaches he worked with lost their jobs FFS!
We seem to be trying to get like NFL etc, where you have a coach for every f***en thing.
Next we'll want a nose picking coach they way we going!!
The mentor role only works if the new coach uses them as such
I agree, just never really heard of an international coach getting a lot out of having one is what I meant. Same as I not convinced we should have the number of assistant coaches that seem to be thing now. I not against skill coaches coming in and really believe that there should be only 2-3 coaches giving messages to players from about Thurs before a test. I wonder if that is part of reason why team looked so confused last couple of years.
Just my thoughts, the coach doing our test team shouldn't need an overseer, or should we need so many frontline coaches.I think you're well off base here, it's completely normal these days to have that many coaches, SA and England have 6 assistant coaches. Razor's problem was he surrounded himself in his mates i.e yes men (except Ryan & Evans, who did a fair job while our defence & attack was a complete shambles in 2025).
Yep mate don't get me wrong , I not suggesting you don't have skills coaches etc, but I will be honest, if you know exactly who is in charge and setting tactics it probably works better. And I was more suggesting a mentor type thing is more that annoys me.
If your best coach is doing ABs he shoudn't have someone looking over his shoulder. I am sure most of our coaches do and have always talked to different coaches from around world (and just as importantly other sports) . But as I said (and you point out) it's trendy having almost a coach for each player it seems these days, and for ABs this last couple of seasons I not convinced it worked in anyway. I don't know how the Boks or Poms work their systems.
Mind you as I have said many times, it just my opinion, we used to lead rugby, now it is almost well Boks and Poms do it so we should? -
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The Ferald strikes again...
That said, one or both of those two in a Wayne Smith type of role wouldn't be a bad thing.
Sorry mate, don't agree with these performance manager roles or Director of Rugby or whatever, they just another shit job that shouldn't be needed.
NZR have tried it once with Wayne Smith, and both coaches he worked with lost their jobs FFS!
We seem to be trying to get like NFL etc, where you have a coach for every f***en thing.
Next we'll want a nose picking coach they way we going!! The mentor role only works if the new coach uses them as such
I agree, just never really heard of an international coach getting a lot out of having one is what I meant. Same as I not convinced we should have the number of assistant coaches that seem to be thing now. I not against skill coaches coming in and really believe that there should be only 2-3 coaches giving messages to players from about Thurs before a test. I wonder if that is part of reason why team looked so confused last couple of years.
Just my thoughts, the coach doing our test team shouldn't need an overseer, or should we need so many frontline coaches.It was the Blues, not the ABs, but when Thorburn won the title he had GH as a technical advisor. It can work if both parties are willing to work together
yep and I have known club coaches that have used it (geez in a tiny way have done jobs myself at a club), but if you read what I was saying, I don't really know of an International coach (especially at tier 1) getting a lot out of it. the only cases I have taken any notice of are with ABs and Black ferns, and certainly semd to not work for thase 2!
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Just out of interest for something completely left field, wonder if someone like Robbie Deans would apply for the job.
he's been interviewed awhile ago as saying he has no such ambitions anymore.
I don't mind him actually but I think a nonCantab group could sweep out some of the Augean stables. At least for the next 2 years. I don't mind which franchise or even better franchises that they come from. Ideally the next coach will ramp up the loosies as well. A big disappointment for me regards Razor, I thought that was his speciality. -
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Yep. I fear that a committee of three random squabbling TSFers couldn't have done much worse with the AB's over the last two years....
I'm just imagining a meme-soaked All Black social media account, arguments at halftime over the socks worn in the 1920s, Fletcher Newell played at 8, some onfield hat-eating, random fights over which is the genuine Bay, and thinking, yes it could get worse...
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
sweep out some of the Augean stables
Redirect the Alpheus and Peneus rivers!
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
we would be the laughing stock of world rugby if we went back to foster after pretty publicly not renewing his contract and announcing Razor as the future...and if im honest i was worried hansen was running out of ideas towards the end of his run....so unless hes gone away and renewed his bag of tricks.....
Nah I don’t think so. It would mean they (NZRU) can learn from their mistakes. If Hansen et al were willing to do it, that would probably be the best option for the ABs at this point.
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Given how slow our media was to react to the whole Razor saga, are we now to believe what they are coming out with, moreso the usual suspects on here dont seem to be getting much info, are our media speculating or picking up on random rumours?
Was Razor the leak previously
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
jesus fucking christ. what a shit show.
The last 2 years have been an absolute shit show. This shit show is a necessary shit show to stop the shit show that was occurring under Razor and his merry band of idiots becoming even more of a shit show.
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@W32 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
we would be the laughing stock of world rugby if we went back to foster after pretty publicly not renewing his contract and announcing Razor as the future...and if im honest i was worried hansen was running out of ideas towards the end of his run....so unless hes gone away and renewed his bag of tricks.....
Nah I don’t think so. It would mean they (NZRU) can learn from their mistakes. If Hansen et al were willing to do it, that would probably be the best option for the ABs at this point.
youre saying not renewing foster was a mistake?
When i said we would be....i mean the idea wed consider it is already making us one if the discussions ive had with people in Aussie and the UK
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@W32 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
we would be the laughing stock of world rugby if we went back to foster after pretty publicly not renewing his contract and announcing Razor as the future...and if im honest i was worried hansen was running out of ideas towards the end of his run....so unless hes gone away and renewed his bag of tricks.....
Nah I don’t think so. It would mean they (NZRU) can learn from their mistakes. If Hansen et al were willing to do it, that would probably be the best option for the ABs at this point.
youre saying not renewing foster was a mistake?
When i said we would be....i mean the idea wed consider it is already making us one if the discussions ive had with people in Aussie and the UK
The mistake was doing the interviews so early. Foster never stood so they couldn't renew his contract. So that's not a mistake or otherwise.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Given how slow our media was to react to the whole Razor saga, are we now to believe what they are coming out with, moreso the usual suspects on here dont seem to be getting much info, are our media speculating or picking up on random rumours?
Was Razor the leak previously
Yeah the media seem bored to me.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@W32 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
we would be the laughing stock of world rugby if we went back to foster after pretty publicly not renewing his contract and announcing Razor as the future...and if im honest i was worried hansen was running out of ideas towards the end of his run....so unless hes gone away and renewed his bag of tricks.....
Nah I don’t think so. It would mean they (NZRU) can learn from their mistakes. If Hansen et al were willing to do it, that would probably be the best option for the ABs at this point.
youre saying not renewing foster was a mistake?
When i said we would be....i mean the idea wed consider it is already making us one if the discussions ive had with people in Aussie and the UK
Everyone has an opinion, mine is that would be a smart move (hiring Foster and Hansen if they wanted to do it)
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Given how slow our media was to react to the whole Razor saga, are we now to believe what they are coming out with, moreso the usual suspects on here dont seem to be getting much info, are our media speculating or picking up on random rumours?
Was Razor the leak previously
Yeah the media seem bored to me.
Frankly I am too. There's nothing happening so nothing to report. It's all conjecture and has been here too for a couple of weeks.
Only so many ways to say "I think it should be ... insert bloke's name".
Really hanging out for something more, like an unsubstantiated rumour at least.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
I'm actually pleased NZR are talking to all and sundry and taking a broader look at skills and suitability. Makes a big change from simple succession and/or choosing someone on perceived charisma and PowerPoinf slides.
Wouldn't be surprised if they pick a head Coach to take us beyond 2027 but take a shorter-term view on assistants to fix short-term problems. Maybe that's the reason they're talking to people like Foster and Shag?
It is clearly an improvement in process, and they should talk to all and sundry - especially those who have been there in the recent past - in terms of getting the structure right.
However, I think if you're going to list reasons Robertson was selected then his success with the Crusaders probably deserves a mention. Unless you're just making snide remarks while advocating for professional behaviour? -
it's been a shemozzle since 2022 really. After Foster was retained and his assistants changed until they went to the World Cup and everyone knew he wasn't getting retained, the ABs had 2 losses and a draw. Was it great? no, i am not revising history. But it was on the surface pretty decent, and the players were happy. We all know what happened at the start of the RWC with the friendly pasting and the loss to France. We then had the finest AB performance in years, a masterclass of planning and execution. We then lose the final by a bees dick with everything going wrong. None of this matters because the coach is gone.
They handed the job to easily the most qualified guy in terms of domestic success to get the job in a long time. 2 years later he is fired.
I said at the time if they didn't think Foster was their man they should have moved him on after the Ireland series. What changed before the World Cup that made them definitely want to change? The results got better FFS. But someone had a direction they wanted to go, and made it happen. It's they type of decision making i associate more with an NFL franchise and a meddling owner.
Now we're in the middle of another cycle, we have no coach, no assistants, and our Domestic comp starts in like 10 days.
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@booboo said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Given how slow our media was to react to the whole Razor saga, are we now to believe what they are coming out with, moreso the usual suspects on here dont seem to be getting much info, are our media speculating or picking up on random rumours?
Was Razor the leak previously
Yeah the media seem bored to me.
Frankly I am too. There's nothing happening so nothing to report. It's all conjecture and has been here too for a couple of weeks.
Only so many ways to say "I think it should be ... insert bloke's name".
Really hanging out for something more, like an unsubstantiated rumour at least.
Insert bloke's name being JJ or Dave Rennie.
With random throwback coaches from 10-25 years ago.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Yep. I fear that a committee of three random squabbling TSFers couldn't have done much worse with the AB's over the last two years....
I'm just imagining a meme-soaked All Black social media account, arguments at halftime over the socks worn in the 1920s, Fletcher Newell played at 8, some onfield hat-eating, random fights over which is the genuine Bay, and thinking, yes it could get worse...
Not to mention - the team rocking up on game-day, asking "what's the game-plan" - and the coaches shame-facedly but reluctantly wiping off their whiteboard covered in the umpteenth attempt at writing up an All-Time Black Caps XI.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
it's been a shemozzle since 2022 really. After Foster was retained and his assistants changed until they went to the World Cup and everyone knew he wasn't getting retained, the ABs had 2 losses and a draw. Was it great? no, i am not revising history. But it was on the surface pretty decent, and the players were happy. We all know what happened at the start of the RWC with the friendly pasting and the loss to France. We then had the finest AB performance in years, a masterclass of planning and execution. We then lose the final by a bees dick with everything going wrong. None of this matters because the coach is gone.
They handed the job to easily the most qualified guy in terms of domestic success to get the job in a long time. 2 years later he is fired.
I said at the time if they didn't think Foster was their man they should have moved him on after the Ireland series. What changed before the World Cup that made them definitely want to change? The results got better FFS. But someone had a direction they wanted to go, and made it happen. It's they type of decision making i associate more with an NFL franchise and a meddling owner.
Now we're in the middle of another cycle, we have no coach, no assistants, and our Domestic comp starts in like 10 days.
All very valid points, and shows how badly NZR has been run in the past 5 or so years. It's been said before but Mark Robinson has a lot to answer for. I guess the key difference right now which gives a lot of people hope is that there has been a significant change in leadership with Kirk coming on board, and it seems pretty clear he is not impressed with the direction NZR and subsequently the ABs have been heading so is taking some fairly drastic actions to try and right the ship. Only time will tell if he is successful or not, but I think most on here were of a similar opinion after the Foster and Razor debacles.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
it's been a shemozzle since 2022 really.
Since 2019, really - if you assume the selection of "coaching teams" meant Fozzie ended up with Plumtree and Mooar, when he would have preferred others (my perception is probably Ryan and Brown - but, I haven't read Fozzie's book to see if he gives any clues). Seems likely we would have been more successful and quite possibly never had the 2022 crisis.
In the real world, you're probably right about moving Fozzie on after the Ireland series if he's not the man - but, it's tricky if the players tell you he's doing a fabulous job.
Would probably have been better for Razor, because he could potentially have named Whitelock as his captain and had Mo'unga as his first five.
Overall, it's pretty annoying to me, that everyone wanted Tony Brown as an AB assistant, but he's ended up with Rassie - while Tony's saying he definitely wants to coach the ABs one day.
Seems pretty evident that the head coaching battle is going to be between JJ and Rennie - largely because neither have confirmed or denied. I think pretty much every other credible contender is largely ruled out.
Don't have a strong opinion as to who should get it - probably lean slightly towards Rennie, but I'm inclined to think Joseph might have the inside track.
I'd be pretty surprised if the loser of this battle would then sign up as an assistant, so I'm really wondering what quality assistants we're going to line up. I think I'm pretty happy if Ryan stays on.
If we've got to have lots of coaches - I think I'd like to see a Head Coach, a Forwards Coach, A Backs Coach, an Assistant Forwards Coach, and an Assistant Backs Coach - along with specialist skills coaches as required. I don't really get how having attack and defence coaches really work, since these are two sides of the same coin.
