All Blacks - New Coach Selection
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@frugby You’d definitely want to be judged more leniently than usual. The new coach could be looking at a very low win percentage after the World Cup.
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I could be wrong, but I imagine the terms of the contract are probably largely agreed on before the interview stage in this situation.
I think the interview stage will be more robust than what Razor went through, but the interview process for a job at this level is surely more of a ratification, given the candidates are known quantities?
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby You’d definitely want to be judged more leniently than usual. The new coach could be looking at a very low win percentage after the World Cup.
I'd be looking past the win loss numbers. The team requires a cultural rebuild, to use Hammer's term. We need to be united, and play for each other
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@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Frank said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
A contract has been offered - at current a long way apart.
To whoM and for what role?
Corrected
Or, I should correct. Jamie Joseph wants a six year contract, they are offering two.
I am unsure if the two year deal is a universal offer.
No one gets a straight 6 year deal after the Razor debacle. Maybe a 3 X 2 with a performance based out clause every 2
I guess the concern any coach might have here, is you take the job, and with a lack of time to implement your ideas you lose the Springboks Tour, and then go out to the Boks in the World Cup QF, and you are out of the job.
I think six is excessive, but I can see why someone would want more than two.
I would imagine it's a negotiating ploy more than anything because what is the sense of settling for a 2 year contract on whatever the NZR low ball offer is when they are in need of filling the vacancy ASAP. The coach has a decent amount of leverage here.
if you only get 2 years you are gonna want more money than you would settle for if your contract was longer. So you start at requesting 6 years and then negotiate down to accepting more per annum for a shorter deal.
Might be wrong, that's just my interpretation.
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@Tim said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
New Zealand Rugby (NZR) will get its man – that’s not in doubt – but when exactly it gets access to him, be it either Jamie Joseph or Dave Rennie – is a big unknown.
With applications for the job having closed on Tuesday and strong reason to believe Joseph and Rennie are the only two candidates that will be interviewed, NZR is hopeful that it will have the next All Blacks coach signed within six weeks.
On that timeline, the new man will likely be announced in early-mid-March – which will be sometime between rounds five and six of Super Rugby Pacific, which kicks off next week, and about week 10 or 11 of the 18-week Japanese Top League.
Getting Rennie – he’s with the Kobe Steelers – out of Japan will likely be simpler and less fraught than dealing with the complexities and sensitivities of hauling Joseph out of a Super club midway through a campaign.
The Highlanders already have a plan in place for this. Dermody will take over as Head Coach until the end of the season, and Joseph will maintain an involvement… regardless of what gets put out in public, I would suggest this to be fairly major role, all be it one where he is not present on a day to day basis.
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I think this is where a Director of Rugby position is quite helpful.
Regardless of who they select as Head Coach, once appointed, in their mind they should be thinking about who the coach is from 2031 onwards - and in my opinion they should be thinking about this person becoming an assistant in the lead up to that.
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@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
I think this is where a Director of Rugby position is quite helpful.
Regardless of who they select as Head Coach, once appointed, in their mind they should be thinking about who the coach is from 2031 onwards - and in my opinion they should be thinking about this person becoming an assistant in the lead up to that.
Proper succession planning would be huge
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Frank said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
A contract has been offered - at current a long way apart.
To whoM and for what role?
Corrected
Or, I should correct. Jamie Joseph wants a six year contract, they are offering two.
I am unsure if the two year deal is a universal offer.
No one gets a straight 6 year deal after the Razor debacle. Maybe a 3 X 2 with a performance based out clause every 2
I guess the concern any coach might have here, is you take the job, and with a lack of time to implement your ideas you lose the Springboks Tour, and then go out to the Boks in the World Cup QF, and you are out of the job.
I think six is excessive, but I can see why someone would want more than two.
I would imagine it's a negotiating ploy more than anything because what is the sense of settling for a 2 year contract on whatever the NZR low ball offer is when they are in need of filling the vacancy ASAP. The coach has a decent amount of leverage here.
if you only get 2 years you are gonna want more money than you would settle for if your contract was longer. So you start at requesting 6 years and then negotiate down to accepting more per annum for a shorter deal.
Might be wrong, that's just my interpretation.
The employer offers something insultingly low. The employee asks for something preposterously high. They meet in the middle.
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@Chris said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@george33 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris Hope Ryan is gone also.Lets just start again.
If it is Joseph he's going to need some good knowledge around him.
Most likely a new captain also.The thing is the players like Ryan,wether that makes a difference I don't know.
Yeah new Captain new coaches normally come in and pick their Captain which probably will be someone else.The thing is if they sack all the assistants under Razor and Rennie doesn't jump on board.
The assistants like Jane etc really don't have any international experience which doesn't make much sense if only the HC has international experience and the board wants that you would expect the same applies to some of the assistants.I dont think Macintosh is an upgrade on Ryan either. Unless i am missing something and just not well informed.
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Well 2 years with the right KPIs in place with an additional 2 year option...
Fozzie was 2 wasn't he, Razor 4? Yet Fozzie went for 4 a d Razor 2...
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@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby You’d definitely want to be judged more leniently than usual. The new coach could be looking at a very low win percentage after the World Cup.
I'd be looking past the win loss numbers. The team requires a cultural rebuild, to use Hammer's term. We need to be united, and play for each other
Exactly. For me, in the same way (but now even more so) that Robertson would have been given a fair bit of leeway if we see positive change. On the other hand, if we see BB continue to be trotted out and the same old shit with a terrible kicking game, not solving basic problems, and guys not looking like they want to put the effort in etc, then that good will (again, and rightly so) is going to disappear pretty quick.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby You’d definitely want to be judged more leniently than usual. The new coach could be looking at a very low win percentage after the World Cup.
Agree milestones up front.
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@reprobate yeah Razor really missed a huge opportunity to hit the ground running and.stamp his.mark.on things, instead he pretty much trotted out the same.side with a worse game plan.
He missed the chance to really.take some risks early on too, so disappointing when you think how he was seemingly so innovative and from a different mould.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@george33 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris Hope Ryan is gone also.Lets just start again.
If it is Joseph he's going to need some good knowledge around him.
Most likely a new captain also.The thing is the players like Ryan,wether that makes a difference I don't know.
Yeah new Captain new coaches normally come in and pick their Captain which probably will be someone else.The thing is if they sack all the assistants under Razor and Rennie doesn't jump on board.
The assistants like Jane etc really don't have any international experience which doesn't make much sense if only the HC has international experience and the board wants that you would expect the same applies to some of the assistants.I dont think Macintosh is an upgrade on Ryan either. Unless i am missing something and just not well informed.
Yeah I agree.
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Not sure about MacIntosh over Ryan, or other way. Perhaps new coach will want someone with new ideas and have other coach in mind? Wallabies have seemed to have had Laurie Fisher forever and a day, while seemingly a good coach, not sure they wouldn't kick on more with fresh ideas.
I know we have ideas for head coach who is best technical coach, not sure we want best technical coach, just the best coach and technical ones below? Always thought the likes og Wayne Smith etc were better as assistants rather than head coach. -
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@reprobate yeah Razor really missed a huge opportunity to hit the ground running and.stamp his.mark.on things, instead he pretty much trotted out the same.side with a worse game plan.
He missed the chance to really.take some risks early on too, so disappointing when you think how he was seemingly so innovative and from a different mould.
Could understand that in Year 1 while he found his feet, but not in Year 2. Expected some risk-taking last year. - esp. from a coach with a record 7 SR titles in a row under his belt.
New coach will need to hit the ground running and won't have the luxury of an extended timescale. Wonder if a 2 year contract is a bit short-sighted by NZR - maybe better to go for 4 with extension to be confirmed after the next RWC?
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Darren Shand suggests getting the head coach to put a prospective backroom team together before even getting the job not a good idea. Thinks that failed both Foster and Robertson.
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@Victor-Meldrew people on here been saying that for a fair old while.
Should appoint coach and go from there, seems wrong they have to build a team to present in interview.
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@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
I guess the concern any coach might have here, is you take the job, and with a lack of time to implement your ideas you lose the Springboks Tour, and then go out to the Boks in the World Cup QF, and you are out of the job.
This is the point.
Things could go very badly from here.
Lose the SA series, lose the SA RWC QF.
That is guna put the HC in a not so good position.
Hence i'd be hopin that NZR would already be thinkin about what to do in that scenario.But if I was a HC condidate i'd be lookin at it a bit different.
Not six years, but almost a caretaker role for 18 mths
Cos, win the series and win the QF (and the cup); and you are f'n hero, forever!
And a with a new four year contract for after the RWC, you'd be able to name your price.
And if it all turns to shit; well, you said it, I didn't have enough time to implement my ideas, excuses are already there. -
@mohikamo said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
I guess the concern any coach might have here, is you take the job, and with a lack of time to implement your ideas you lose the Springboks Tour, and then go out to the Boks in the World Cup QF, and you are out of the job.
This is the point.
Things could go very badly from here.
Lose the SA series, lose the SA RWC QF.
That is guna put the HC in a not so good position.
Hence i'd be hopin that NZR would already be thinkin about what to do in that scenario.But if I was a HC condidate i'd be lookin at it a bit different.
Not six years, but almost a caretaker role for 18 mths
Cos, win the series and win the QF (and the cup); and you are f'n hero, forever!
And a with a new four year contract for after the RWC, you'd be able to name your price.
And if it all turns to shit; well, you said it, I didn't have enough time to implement my ideas, excuses are already there.Now that's plausible deniability! Anyone who expects miracles from our current situation is dreaming
