Scott Robertson
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(After a bad on-field event) Scott Robertson stood, briefly leaving his seat in exasperation.
As he left his seat for a few seconds, he looked in the direction of the dignitaries, including New Zealand Rugby (NZR) chief executive Mark Robinson, some 10-15 rows behind, and mouthed words to the effect of “fuck it”, according to one source with knowledge of the incident.
“In [Robertson’s] mind, it was just stepping back mentally for a moment in a really full-on environment,”
Three sources spoken to by the Herald have confirmed that Robertson’s emotion in the coaching box generally – and, more specifically, any impact it might have had on performance – was a concern for some leaders at NZR.
Seems at though NZR thought something very, very wrong after the Twickenham defeat.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
(After a bad on-field event) Scott Robertson stood, briefly leaving his seat in exasperation.
As he left his seat for a few seconds, he looked in the direction of the dignitaries, including New Zealand Rugby (NZR) chief executive Mark Robinson, some 10-15 rows behind, and mouthed words to the effect of “fuck it”, according to one source with knowledge of the incident.
“In [Robertson’s] mind, it was just stepping back mentally for a moment in a really full-on environment,”
Three sources spoken to by the Herald have confirmed that Robertson’s emotion in the coaching box generally – and, more specifically, any impact it might have had on performance – was a concern for some leaders at NZR.
Seems at though NZR thought something very, very wrong after the Twickenham defeat.
I read that earlier and thought it was making a mountain out of a molehill. Saying ‘fuck it’ during a game and then trying to use that as a significant moment as to why someone was wrong for a job is pretty fucking crazy and a massive reach.
NZR is a corporate environment. I have worked in corporate environments for over 2 decades (tech companies such as Oracle, MSFt, Dell and much much smaller scale ups.).
Mavericks are tolerated in corporate environments if everything is going well. Smashing sales targets etc…its all good they just have a different approach etc…
The moment things arent going as well, the mavericks are out of favour very very quickly - “he doesnt do things our way, doesnt understand our culture,” etc.
This is a tale as old as tall glass building’s!
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
(After a bad on-field event) Scott Robertson stood, briefly leaving his seat in exasperation.
As he left his seat for a few seconds, he looked in the direction of the dignitaries, including New Zealand Rugby (NZR) chief executive Mark Robinson, some 10-15 rows behind, and mouthed words to the effect of “fuck it”, according to one source with knowledge of the incident.
“In [Robertson’s] mind, it was just stepping back mentally for a moment in a really full-on environment,”
Three sources spoken to by the Herald have confirmed that Robertson’s emotion in the coaching box generally – and, more specifically, any impact it might have had on performance – was a concern for some leaders at NZR.
Seems at though NZR thought something very, very wrong after the Twickenham defeat.
I read that earlier and thought it was making a mountain out of a molehill. Saying ‘fuck it’ during a game and then trying to use that as a significant moment as to why someone was wrong for a job is pretty fucking crazy and a massive reach.
NZR is a corporate environment. I have worked in corporate environments for over 2 decades (tech companies such as Oracle, MSFt, Dell and much much smaller scale ups.).
Mavericks are tolerated in corporate environments if everything is going well. Smashing sales targets etc…its all good they just have a different approach etc…
The moment things arent going as well, the mavericks are out of favour very very quickly - “he doesnt do things our way, doesnt understand our culture,” etc.
This is a tale as old as tall glass building’s!
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
I read that earlier and thought it was making a mountain out of a molehill
I wonder of that incident was when the penny dropped or the straw that broke the camel's back. If he was under so much pressure, then you'd have hoped NZR would know the concept of pastoral care.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
I read that earlier and thought it was making a mountain out of a molehill
I wonder of that incident was when the penny dropped or the straw that broke the camel's back. If he was under so much pressure, then you'd have hoped NZR would know the concept of pastoral care.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
I read that earlier and thought it was making a mountain out of a molehill
I wonder of that incident was when the penny dropped or the straw that broke the camel's back. If he was under so much pressure, then you'd have hoped NZR would know the concept of pastoral care.
The interviews after Twickenham struck me as revealing Razor was shattered. He referred to many of the players being devastated, but his body language was fooling no one.
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(After a bad on-field event) Scott Robertson stood, briefly leaving his seat in exasperation.
As he left his seat for a few seconds, he looked in the direction of the dignitaries, including New Zealand Rugby (NZR) chief executive Mark Robinson, some 10-15 rows behind, and mouthed words to the effect of “fuck it”, according to one source with knowledge of the incident.
“In [Robertson’s] mind, it was just stepping back mentally for a moment in a really full-on environment,”
Three sources spoken to by the Herald have confirmed that Robertson’s emotion in the coaching box generally – and, more specifically, any impact it might have had on performance – was a concern for some leaders at NZR.
Seems at though NZR thought something very, very wrong after the Twickenham defeat.
@Victor-Meldrew Just read the full article. Probably not 100%, but clearly very well informed.
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One source told the Herald that as time went on, they believed that some All Blacks team management “just lost all faith”. Those in the environment reflected on how they were under the impression that Razor was “the guru”, but actually didn’t see much or any of his coaching ability on display.
As an example, the source said, Robertson would play videos to the team to “gee everyone up” at meetings.
“He’d play the clip, and at the end of the clip, he’d go, ‘Everyone good? Cool, let’s go.’ You were not getting any inspirational speeches, you were not seeing any rugby IQ, any innovation.
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One source told the Herald that as time went on, they believed that some All Blacks team management “just lost all faith”. Those in the environment reflected on how they were under the impression that Razor was “the guru”, but actually didn’t see much or any of his coaching ability on display.
As an example, the source said, Robertson would play videos to the team to “gee everyone up” at meetings.
“He’d play the clip, and at the end of the clip, he’d go, ‘Everyone good? Cool, let’s go.’ You were not getting any inspirational speeches, you were not seeing any rugby IQ, any innovation.
@Tim said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
One source told the Herald that as time went on, they believed that some All Blacks team management “just lost all faith”. Those in the environment reflected on how they were under the impression that Razor was “the guru”, but actually didn’t see much or any of his coaching ability on display.
As an example, the source said, Robertson would play videos to the team to “gee everyone up” at meetings.
“He’d play the clip, and at the end of the clip, he’d go, ‘Everyone good? Cool, let’s go.’ You were not getting any inspirational speeches, you were not seeing any rugby IQ, any innovation.
Lol, wondering what videos he played to the team now.
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@taniwharugby I've seen shit performances,thru the years - individually and by the team as a whole.
But I've never seen an AB team simply give up like they did against SA in Wellington last year. Absolute low point.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@taniwharugby I've seen shit performances,thru the years - individually and by the team as a whole.
But I've never seen an AB team simply give up like they did against SA in Wellington last year. Absolute low point.
I agree, and funnily enough I saw 2 test teams give up this year, other one was the Boks against Wallabies at Ellis Park, just have no idea why either happened .
I agree not a high point of year, and yet I thought the English test worried me more , we looked lost whole test. -
One source told the Herald that as time went on, they believed that some All Blacks team management “just lost all faith”. Those in the environment reflected on how they were under the impression that Razor was “the guru”, but actually didn’t see much or any of his coaching ability on display.
As an example, the source said, Robertson would play videos to the team to “gee everyone up” at meetings.
“He’d play the clip, and at the end of the clip, he’d go, ‘Everyone good? Cool, let’s go.’ You were not getting any inspirational speeches, you were not seeing any rugby IQ, any innovation.
@Tim said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
One source told the Herald that as time went on, they believed that some All Blacks team management “just lost all faith”. Those in the environment reflected on how they were under the impression that Razor was “the guru”, but actually didn’t see much or any of his coaching ability on display.
As an example, the source said, Robertson would play videos to the team to “gee everyone up” at meetings.
“He’d play the clip, and at the end of the clip, he’d go, ‘Everyone good? Cool, let’s go.’ You were not getting any inspirational speeches, you were not seeing any rugby IQ, any innovation.
While taking it all with a few grains of salt , because it from the Herald, certainly shows there earlier stories blaming Ardie and a few players for a somehow bringing him down as crap doesn't it? They seem to have a different story for each month! Mind you ths does line up with what Kirk said, he specifically daid they had talked to management too, a fact conveniently overlooked by a few.
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The more we hear the more the parting of ways was the correct call, even if it leaves us in this mess.
It will be tough for a new coach coming in now, but they do hold a good.hand for negotiating a contract, I hope though that both they and NZR can see the bigger picture and include good kpis and review process with options to extend or part ways.
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Great backgrounder - I think it portrays Razor as sadly out of his depth - and perhaps at the end he realised it too.
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Great backgrounder - I think it portrays Razor as sadly out of his depth - and perhaps at the end he realised it too.
@zedsdeadbaby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Great backgrounder - I think it portrays Razor as sadly out of his depth - and perhaps at the end he realised it too.
These reports might cause some test nations to pause at the thought of signing Razor on as coach
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Great backgrounder - I think it portrays Razor as sadly out of his depth - and perhaps at the end he realised it too.
@zedsdeadbaby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Great backgrounder - I think it portrays Razor as sadly out of his depth - and perhaps at the end he realised it too.
I'd be interested to hear from those in the game how quickly / how late they started hearing rumours of things not going well.
On him being out of his depth, there were a few posters here who questioned why Razor wouldn't come into the AB environment (or another) as a an assistant. The story was 'well, he's only a HC now' but it seems equally clear that international rugby is not the same world as NZ's domestic league. Who'd have thought? (Apart from Duluth, Kirwan and a few others here).
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@zedsdeadbaby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Great backgrounder - I think it portrays Razor as sadly out of his depth - and perhaps at the end he realised it too.
I'd be interested to hear from those in the game how quickly / how late they started hearing rumours of things not going well.
On him being out of his depth, there were a few posters here who questioned why Razor wouldn't come into the AB environment (or another) as a an assistant. The story was 'well, he's only a HC now' but it seems equally clear that international rugby is not the same world as NZ's domestic league. Who'd have thought? (Apart from Duluth, Kirwan and a few others here).
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@gt12 Well maybe it's because being a top level assistant requires someone who is comfortable in their technical 'hands on' coaching ability, and Razor is not?
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@gt12 Well maybe it's because being a top level assistant requires someone who is comfortable in their technical 'hands on' coaching ability, and Razor is not?
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@gt12 Well maybe it's because being a top level assistant requires someone who is comfortable in their technical 'hands on' coaching ability, and Razor is not?
It's never been clear to me how you can be an effective HC at the international level if you can't also be an effective assistant coach at that level.
If you don't have sufficient coaching ability to play at that level, at least for one specific aspect of the role, I can't see how you should be able to manage a team of people doing those jobs.
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@zedsdeadbaby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Great backgrounder - I think it portrays Razor as sadly out of his depth - and perhaps at the end he realised it too.
I'd be interested to hear from those in the game how quickly / how late they started hearing rumours of things not going well.
On him being out of his depth, there were a few posters here who questioned why Razor wouldn't come into the AB environment (or another) as a an assistant. The story was 'well, he's only a HC now' but it seems equally clear that international rugby is not the same world as NZ's domestic league. Who'd have thought? (Apart from Duluth, Kirwan and a few others here).
@gt12 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
international rugby is not the same world as NZ's domestic league. Who'd have thought? (Apart from Duluth, Kirwan and a few others here).
Also, @Victor-Meldrew (and me) were pointing out that international campaigns were quite different to Super - that skills may not transfer easily. I do not think anyone had Razor getting fired on their bingo card though,
Also interesting that from the article Kirk didn't articulate any chance to improve, but came in to a 'bring legal representation'. There were very clearly people talking from Razor's camp (sounded too articulate for Marshall ...
) so take with a pinch of salt. May have had messages or discussions that he missed the importance of the 'you need to change things' message. Anyhoo, internet speculation as we don't know the facts. -
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@gt12 Well maybe it's because being a top level assistant requires someone who is comfortable in their technical 'hands on' coaching ability, and Razor is not?
It's never been clear to me how you can be an effective HC at the international level if you can't also be an effective assistant coach at that level.
If you don't have sufficient coaching ability to play at that level, at least for one specific aspect of the role, I can't see how you should be able to manage a team of people doing those jobs.
@gt12 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@gt12 Well maybe it's because being a top level assistant requires someone who is comfortable in their technical 'hands on' coaching ability, and Razor is not?
It's never been clear to me how you can be an effective HC at the international level if you can't also be an effective assistant coach at that level.
If you don't have sufficient coaching ability to play at that level, at least for one specific aspect of the role, I can't see how you should be able to manage a team of people doing those jobs.
Amen, you can't. Which is why some of the comments earlier about the HC being the best man-manager while the best actual coaches should be assistants made me feel a little sick.
