Scott Robertson
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@taniwharugby I've seen shit performances,thru the years - individually and by the team as a whole.
But I've never seen an AB team simply give up like they did against SA in Wellington last year. Absolute low point.
I agree, and funnily enough I saw 2 test teams give up this year, other one was the Boks against Wallabies at Ellis Park, just have no idea why either happened .
I agree not a high point of year, and yet I thought the English test worried me more , we looked lost whole test.@Dan54 said in Scott Robertson:
I thought the English test worried me more , we looked lost whole test.
Yep, I actually stopped watching that game when we were 12 in front. Had already seen enough.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
Re-read the article and this struck me
"It is understood that Robertson was starting to feel like a scapegoat."
That's 100% down to NZR. Same thing happened to Foster and it's just corrosive.
A scapegoat for the failings of his coaching and man management?
It's called responsibility.
@antipodean said in Scott Robertson:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
Re-read the article and this struck me
"It is understood that Robertson was starting to feel like a scapegoat."
That's 100% down to NZR. Same thing happened to Foster and it's just corrosive.
A scapegoat for the failings of his coaching and man management?
It's called responsibility.
Get that. But if he felt that way then NZR clearly didn't communicate their concerns - and have history. They were his employer.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
Think that's unfair. He was clearly a coaching superstar who wanted to step up to the next level but just couldn't manage it. Not his fault he wanted the top job and thought he could do it.
NZR are the culprits here. Should have taken a cold, hard unemotional look rather than jumping on the "In Scott we trust" bandwagon. Their handling of both Foster and Robertson has been an object lesson in shithouse management.
A post to bookmark for the next time some piston wristed gibbon accuses you of being anti-Robertson.
@gt12 said in Scott Robertson:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
Think that's unfair. He was clearly a coaching superstar who wanted to step up to the next level but just couldn't manage it. Not his fault he wanted the top job and thought he could do it.
NZR are the culprits here. Should have taken a cold, hard unemotional look rather than jumping on the "In Scott we trust" bandwagon. Their handling of both Foster and Robertson has been an object lesson in shithouse management.
A post to bookmark for the next time some piston wristed gibbon accuses you of being anti-Robertson.
Just call things as I see them.
Took the piss out of Foster's rotundness and Robertson's fondness for PowerPoint. Looking forward to see what the next coach offers...
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Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
I’m sorry but that’s an absolutely pathetic reaction and comment. Not a very good coach? No one can question his success at a domestic level. Won a super rugby title in South Africa, undefeated
super rugby season?If you look at the squads he had over the years he was completely responsible for growing most of those players. Completely out coached any super coach he came up against. His game planes against the Blues and Chiefs squads over the past few years completely dismantled them and he was clearly a better coach than McMillan, Crotter, McDonald, Joseph etc.
He shouldn’t have had the ABs coaching job and he was out of his depth. But calling him a fraud and an idiot is a neurotic, witch hunter style comment.
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The more we hear the more the parting of ways was the correct call, even if it leaves us in this mess.
It will be tough for a new coach coming in now, but they do hold a good.hand for negotiating a contract, I hope though that both they and NZR can see the bigger picture and include good kpis and review process with options to extend or part ways.
@taniwharugby said in Scott Robertson:
The more we hear the more the parting of ways was the correct call, even if it leaves us in this mess.
Yes it was the correct call.
I would have done it, but did not think NZR would have the balls.
Thought the situation needed to get worse, before NZR would be forced into some drastic action.Sometimes a change just has to be made, a situation has developed to point where the only realistic course of action is to just blow it up.
Bring someone in with a clean slate, see what you can salvage, and move forward.
Happens in all walks-of-life, politics/commerce/sports.Seen a zillion teams change coaches in my time, but the Robertson implosion is one of the most bizarre I have witnessed.
An impressive CV, starting with a lot of good will, and ending in 24 months, with concerns about his well-being!
Incredible.
If there was nothing else going on in his life, then he just simply wasn't up to it. -
Reading through that long piece in the Herald by Shayne Currie the insider quote that jumped out at me was the one saying that while Robertson had many qualities, “man management and communication” were not among them.
This is a bit like saying of an airline pilot, he was a lovely bloke and told some great stories - but being colour blind and an alcoholic really counted against him.
Others in the story are quoted as saying of Robertson that he appeared to cave under pressure, retreated into his shell and left all the hard talking to the assistants.
That’s what it looked like from the outside to me as well. I know there’s a school out there among the Crusaders rusted-ons that this was all a fiendish plot by Ardie Savea, but Captain Kirk and co would not have turned the stun guns to kill if the problem was just a clash of personalities.
The early departure of MacDonald, the largely unexplained resignation of Jason Holland and Robertson’s own appallingly incomprehensible public utterances tell you he was melting under the pressure, perhaps understandable given the hype he had to live up to. In short, he just wasn’t up to the job.
The manner and timing of his departure is clearly not ideal, but does anyone really think things were salvageable given the clearly toxic internal culture and resulting pissweak on-field performances?
@His-Bobness said in Scott Robertson:
That’s what it looked like from the outside to me as well. I know there’s a school out there among the Crusaders rusted-ons that this was all a fiendish plot by Ardie Savea, but Captain Kirk and co would not have turned the stun guns to kill if the problem was just a clash of personalities.
Yes I dont buy that player power did Razor in.
But . . . conversely . . . the players may have been able save him, if they had all backed him at review time . . . but some of them, at least, clearly didn't do that. -
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
Over-hyped and over-rated fraud. He must have known that he wasn't a very good coach and would be exposed hideously at the top level. The Emperor had no clothes. What an idiot!
No sympathy at all over his firing. Good riddance!
I’m sorry but that’s an absolutely pathetic reaction and comment. Not a very good coach? No one can question his success at a domestic level. Won a super rugby title in South Africa, undefeated
super rugby season?If you look at the squads he had over the years he was completely responsible for growing most of those players. Completely out coached any super coach he came up against. His game planes against the Blues and Chiefs squads over the past few years completely dismantled them and he was clearly a better coach than McMillan, Crotter, McDonald, Joseph etc.
He shouldn’t have had the ABs coaching job and he was out of his depth. But calling him a fraud and an idiot is a neurotic, witch hunter style comment.
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m sorry but that’s an absolutely pathetic reaction and comment. Not a very good coach? No one can question his success at a domestic level. Won a super rugby title in South Africa, undefeated
super rugby season?If you look at the squads he had over the years he was completely responsible for growing most of those players. Completely out coached any super coach he came up against. His game planes against the Blues and Chiefs squads over the past few years completely dismantled them and he was clearly a better coach than McMillan, Crotter, McDonald, Joseph etc.
These are the same arguments we heard when he was was being fluffed by all and sundry as the Super Coach who sort out all the problems of the Foster years. They were poor arguments then - and now..
He shouldn’t have had the ABs coaching job and he was out of his depth.
From what we've seen/heard, he would probably have been out of his depth coaching any team other than the Crusaders.
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@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m sorry but that’s an absolutely pathetic reaction and comment. Not a very good coach? No one can question his success at a domestic level. Won a super rugby title in South Africa, undefeated
super rugby season?If you look at the squads he had over the years he was completely responsible for growing most of those players. Completely out coached any super coach he came up against. His game planes against the Blues and Chiefs squads over the past few years completely dismantled them and he was clearly a better coach than McMillan, Crotter, McDonald, Joseph etc.
These are the same arguments we heard when he was was being fluffed by all and sundry as the Super Coach who sort out all the problems of the Foster years. They were poor arguments then - and now..
He shouldn’t have had the ABs coaching job and he was out of his depth.
From what we've seen/heard, he would probably have been out of his depth coaching any team other than the Crusaders.
@Victor-Meldrew where's Razor
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@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m sorry but that’s an absolutely pathetic reaction and comment. Not a very good coach? No one can question his success at a domestic level. Won a super rugby title in South Africa, undefeated
super rugby season?If you look at the squads he had over the years he was completely responsible for growing most of those players. Completely out coached any super coach he came up against. His game planes against the Blues and Chiefs squads over the past few years completely dismantled them and he was clearly a better coach than McMillan, Crotter, McDonald, Joseph etc.
These are the same arguments we heard when he was was being fluffed by all and sundry as the Super Coach who sort out all the problems of the Foster years. They were poor arguments then - and now..
He shouldn’t have had the ABs coaching job and he was out of his depth.
From what we've seen/heard, he would probably have been out of his depth coaching any team other than the Crusaders.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m sorry but that’s an absolutely pathetic reaction and comment. Not a very good coach? No one can question his success at a domestic level. Won a super rugby title in South Africa, undefeated
super rugby season?If you look at the squads he had over the years he was completely responsible for growing most of those players. Completely out coached any super coach he came up against. His game planes against the Blues and Chiefs squads over the past few years completely dismantled them and he was clearly a better coach than McMillan, Crotter, McDonald, Joseph etc.
These are the same arguments we heard when he was was being fluffed by all and sundry as the Super Coach who sort out all the problems of the Foster years. They were poor arguments then - and now..
He shouldn’t have had the ABs coaching job and he was out of his depth.
From what we've seen/heard, he would probably have been out of his depth coaching any team other than the Crusaders.
I’m not arguing for it. I’m saying the witch hunt style comments without acknowledging the success domestically is ridiculous. I’m glad he’s gone but this is getting pathetic
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He was a one trick pony. His first couple of Super titles were built on the innovation of theming. But that didn't remain an innovation for long.
The superior recruitment of the Crusaders and signing talent from other franchise areas did the rest.
@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
He was a one trick pony. His first couple of Super titles were built on the innovation of theming. But that didn't remain an innovation for long.
The superior recruitment of the Crusaders and signing talent from other franchise areas did the rest.
Innovation of theming? What the fuck does that mean?
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@sparky said in Scott Robertson:
He was a one trick pony. His first couple of Super titles were built on the innovation of theming. But that didn't remain an innovation for long.
The superior recruitment of the Crusaders and signing talent from other franchise areas did the rest.
Innovation of theming? What the fuck does that mean?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m sorry but that’s an absolutely pathetic reaction and comment. Not a very good coach? No one can question his success at a domestic level. Won a super rugby title in South Africa, undefeated
super rugby season?If you look at the squads he had over the years he was completely responsible for growing most of those players. Completely out coached any super coach he came up against. His game planes against the Blues and Chiefs squads over the past few years completely dismantled them and he was clearly a better coach than McMillan, Crotter, McDonald, Joseph etc.
These are the same arguments we heard when he was was being fluffed by all and sundry as the Super Coach who sort out all the problems of the Foster years. They were poor arguments then - and now..
He shouldn’t have had the ABs coaching job and he was out of his depth.
From what we've seen/heard, he would probably have been out of his depth coaching any team other than the Crusaders.
I’m not arguing for it. I’m saying the witch hunt style comments without acknowledging the success domestically is ridiculous. I’m glad he’s gone but this is getting pathetic
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m not arguing for it. I’m saying the witch hunt style comments without acknowledging the success domestically is ridiculous. I’m glad he’s gone but this is getting pathetic
Blowback not surprising when you consider the hype the man generated.
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@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m not arguing for it. I’m saying the witch hunt style comments without acknowledging the success domestically is ridiculous. I’m glad he’s gone but this is getting pathetic
Blowback not surprising when you consider the hype the man generated.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m not arguing for it. I’m saying the witch hunt style comments without acknowledging the success domestically is ridiculous. I’m glad he’s gone but this is getting pathetic
Blowback not surprising when you consider the hype the man generated.
There’s blowback, which is entirely appropriate, and then there’s borderline neurotic revisionism over what is the best super rugby record ever, winning three titles when it was still a competition (and not just get to the finals and watch Dmac shit the bed and hand you the game).
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m not arguing for it. I’m saying the witch hunt style comments without acknowledging the success domestically is ridiculous. I’m glad he’s gone but this is getting pathetic
Blowback not surprising when you consider the hype the man generated.
There’s blowback, which is entirely appropriate, and then there’s borderline neurotic revisionism over what is the best super rugby record ever, winning three titles when it was still a competition (and not just get to the finals and watch Dmac shit the bed and hand you the game).
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m not arguing for it. I’m saying the witch hunt style comments without acknowledging the success domestically is ridiculous. I’m glad he’s gone but this is getting pathetic
Blowback not surprising when you consider the hype the man generated.
There’s blowback, which is entirely appropriate, and then there’s borderline neurotic revisionism over what is the best super rugby record ever, winning three titles when it was still a competition (and not just get to the finals and watch Dmac shit the bed and hand you the game).
You could almost call it ironic.....
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@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m not arguing for it. I’m saying the witch hunt style comments without acknowledging the success domestically is ridiculous. I’m glad he’s gone but this is getting pathetic
Blowback not surprising when you consider the hype the man generated.
There’s blowback, which is entirely appropriate, and then there’s borderline neurotic revisionism over what is the best super rugby record ever, winning three titles when it was still a competition (and not just get to the finals and watch Dmac shit the bed and hand you the game).
You could almost call it ironic.....
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m not arguing for it. I’m saying the witch hunt style comments without acknowledging the success domestically is ridiculous. I’m glad he’s gone but this is getting pathetic
Blowback not surprising when you consider the hype the man generated.
There’s blowback, which is entirely appropriate, and then there’s borderline neurotic revisionism over what is the best super rugby record ever, winning three titles when it was still a competition (and not just get to the finals and watch Dmac shit the bed and hand you the game).
You could almost call it ironic.....
The sentiment and discourse around NZ rugby is now mirroring exactly what has gone wrong in Australia over the past 10-12 years. It’s tribal, it lacks context, it’s overly emotive, and obsessed with domestic allegiances. This kind of sentiment around Robertson is part of the problem
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Scott Robertson:
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
I’m not arguing for it. I’m saying the witch hunt style comments without acknowledging the success domestically is ridiculous. I’m glad he’s gone but this is getting pathetic
Blowback not surprising when you consider the hype the man generated.
There’s blowback, which is entirely appropriate, and then there’s borderline neurotic revisionism over what is the best super rugby record ever, winning three titles when it was still a competition (and not just get to the finals and watch Dmac shit the bed and hand you the game).
You could almost call it ironic.....
The sentiment and discourse around NZ rugby is now mirroring exactly what has gone wrong in Australia over the past 10-12 years. It’s tribal, it lacks context, it’s overly emotive, and obsessed with domestic allegiances. This kind of sentiment around Robertson is part of the problem
@jimmyb said in Scott Robertson:
The sentiment and discourse around NZ rugby is now mirroring exactly what has gone wrong in Australia over the past 10-12 years. It’s tribal, it lacks context, it’s overly emotive, and obsessed with domestic allegiances. This kind of sentiment around Robertson
iswas part of the problemFIFY
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@Dan54 said in Scott Robertson:
I thought the English test worried me more , we looked lost whole test.
Yep, I actually stopped watching that game when we were 12 in front. Had already seen enough.
@mohikamo said in Scott Robertson:
@Dan54 said in Scott Robertson:
I thought the English test worried me more , we looked lost whole test.
Yep, I actually stopped watching that game when we were 12 in front. Had already seen enough.
Mate I admit one thing I can't do is ever stop watching a test
Lol perhaps I just a desperate though mate, and understand why you did. -
@His-Bobness said in Scott Robertson:
That’s what it looked like from the outside to me as well. I know there’s a school out there among the Crusaders rusted-ons that this was all a fiendish plot by Ardie Savea, but Captain Kirk and co would not have turned the stun guns to kill if the problem was just a clash of personalities.
Yes I dont buy that player power did Razor in.
But . . . conversely . . . the players may have been able save him, if they had all backed him at review time . . . but some of them, at least, clearly didn't do that.@mohikamo said in Scott Robertson:
@His-Bobness said in Scott Robertson:
That’s what it looked like from the outside to me as well. I know there’s a school out there among the Crusaders rusted-ons that this was all a fiendish plot by Ardie Savea, but Captain Kirk and co would not have turned the stun guns to kill if the problem was just a clash of personalities.
Yes I dont buy that player power did Razor in.
But . . . conversely . . . the players may have been able save him, if they had all backed him at review time . . . but some of them, at least, clearly didn't do that.I dont either. The squad was clearly underperforming and had issues. You don't have to look to hard to see that. nz is a small place, all the issue would have been known well in advance.
Kirk made two points (around Oct/Nov) when he started his role - results are unacceptable and the process to appoint razor was flawed. Why say that? Well, it was clear to me at the time that it was like Game of thrones foreshadowing and Razor is not secure.
I doubt the players would have been able to save him. I think the issues were known for some time and that NZR had this outcome in mind for some tine
