All Blacks - New Coach Selection
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@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
South Africa are the best in the world and then the French 2nd IMHO. The best performances under Robertson were the loses against the Boks in Ellis Park in 2024 and against France in 2024.
Then it's a toss-up between England and the All Blacks for 3rd/4th in the world. England recently won 12 in a row including slaughtering us at Twickenham so they are 3rd for me, even if the wheels fell off fkr them yesterday.
I think we are better than the rest of Tier 1 but (with the exception of Wales) they are snapping at our heals. Ireland seem to be slipping, Australia are bloody good with everyone available but can't cover injuries to key men, Italy are on the rise a bit, Scotland mercurial, Ireland are aging but still dangerous.
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Haven't followed the thread closely, but is the announcement today? Or maybe todays when Rassie announces that Scott Robertson is a new assistant coach? Hard to keep up
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@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
This is the thing.
When we get our shit together we can be as good as any AB team. RWC2023 against Ireland and the final, Ellis Park in 2022 and, to keep @reprobate happy, Eden park last year.
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years. Get that right and anything's possible.
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@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
This is the thing.
When we get our shit together we can be as good as any AB team. RWC2023 against Ireland and the final, Ellis Park in 2022 and, to keep @reprobate happy, Eden park last year.
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years. Get that right and anything's possible.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years
this is the astonishing thing for me. I thought this would be where the last coach would have huge strenghts, particularly in man management. But it just didn't work
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@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
This is the thing.
When we get our shit together we can be as good as any AB team. RWC2023 against Ireland and the final, Ellis Park in 2022 and, to keep @reprobate happy, Eden park last year.
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years. Get that right and anything's possible.
@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years
this is the astonishing thing for me. I thought this would be where the last coach would have huge strenghts, particularly in man management. But it just didn't work
@nzzp said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years
this is the astonishing thing for me. I thought this would be where the last coach would have huge strenghts, particularly in man management. But it just didn't work
Well, we won't be choosing the AB coach purely on domestic success anytime soon.
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@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
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@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes.
Be nice if he was given a chance to try.
@booboo said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes.
Be nice if he was given a chance to try.
He was given a 'kinda' chance in 2024, and for the first 60 minutes or so in most games he was generally very good - but the caveats are that he had to do absolutely everything and we had poor halfback kicking options. Then around 60 minutes he would be fatigued and couldn't carry our attack by himself anymore, Beauden and the bench halfback would come on (no Roigard remember), and it would get messy and we would go to shit and lose the game.
Then Robertson put McKenzie on the bench, and our last 20 improved (at the expense of our first 60). Our best backline performances ever since then have been when BB was injured. This more than anything else is where I lost all faith in Robertson.
Pair McKenzie with Roigard and we are immediately a far better team. Love to 23 and give him meaningful time at both 15 and 10. We completely wasted last year by not doing this. -
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
This is the thing.
When we get our shit together we can be as good as any AB team. RWC2023 against Ireland and the final, Ellis Park in 2022 and, to keep @reprobate happy, Eden park last year.
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years. Get that right and anything's possible.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
This is the thing.
When we get our shit together we can be as good as any AB team. RWC2023 against Ireland and the final, Ellis Park in 2022 and, to keep @reprobate happy, Eden park last year.
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years. Get that right and anything's possible.
There have been patches where we have looked good for sure - for me the first half of Boks 1 in 2024 is one where they really struggled to stay with us. Then we went to shit so badly that we lost the game...
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@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
I don't. The players you named have all looked imperious behind dominating forwards. It's what they do when it's an arm wrestle that counts.
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@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
I don't. The players you named have all looked imperious behind dominating forwards. It's what they do when it's an arm wrestle that counts.
@antipodean yeah we have the structure of a really good side, but we lacked the gameplan and leadership to change things when it wasnt working (this may or may not be a reflection on SB) but then what do you revert to if the game plan and/or style isnt very clear?
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Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
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@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
If Richie comes back as good as when he left, we'll be fine.
He's actually a pretty good defender - suffers the same problem as many little men, if their tackle position is compromised they're easily bumped off.
RWC tackle stats show:
Richie 75%
Handre Pollard 62%
Marcus Smith 47%We're in a significantly better position* than we were in 2011. When we had DC - Slade and Cruden who'd each started about two tests - and Beaver in the wilderness.
*Provided Richie hasn't faded.
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@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
@nzzp said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
its true....but how else to we work out who "might" make the step up, guess, its different but we have to give the people playing well in super first shot to step up
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
generally yes....but also im not sure we have the time to start completely from scratch
I think we need to use a combination, new young people showing the right stuff in super rugby deserve a shot.....incumbents cant use previous glory to keep their spot and more specifically they need to show they can still leanr new tricks
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@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
@nzzp said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
Nah, I was talking about the players here.
People calling for Ruben Love and DMac to do X and Y.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
its true....but how else to we work out who "might" make the step up, guess, its different but we have to give the people playing well in super first shot to step up
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
generally yes....but also im not sure we have the time to start completely from scratch
I think we need to use a combination, new young people showing the right stuff in super rugby deserve a shot.....incumbents cant use previous glory to keep their spot and more specifically they need to show they can still leanr new tricks
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
generally yes....but also im not sure we have the time to start completely from scratch
I think we need to use a combination, new young people showing the right stuff in super rugby deserve a shot.....incumbents cant use previous glory to keep their spot and more specifically they need to show they can still leanr new tricks
It depends how long ago that previous glory was. I don’t want to hear any more “we’ve selected this guy because he has so much experience” when he hasn’t been any good for years.
