All Blacks - New Coach Selection
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@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@reprobate said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@restofit said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The All Blacks had just two really impressive matches last year; the win over France Baby squad in Wellington 43-16 and the win over the Boks at Eden Park. Both were the only games when Wayne Smith got involved in the training week.
For me that's a clear case of correlation for the simple reason I don't believe such clarity and tactical focus can result from attendance at a couple of sessions.
Now that Smith's gone, we need an equivalent rugby mind involved in the setup - Rennie, Schmidt, or Brown, come closest to that in my opinion, and only Rennie is available.
We needed Schmidt to manage our brilliant WC run in 2023 and still lost the final (albeit by a single point and 14 men). World Cups can be notoriously fickle & often the best side doesn't even win it.
If we are to have a hope of winning in 2027, we need a technical mind such as Rennie (at the very least in an advisory role).
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, then you definitely need well credentialed assistants. Competent but willing (and able) to articulate to the wider coaching group and players what opportunities they see.
I think the All Blacks would be immeasurably better off if they selected better, rewarded form, and had clarity at halftime.
If your head coach can't provide the technical direction, you need a new head coach.
Nah, they could be specialists in culture.
and "vibes".
Maybe we are getting too fixated by culture, instead of seeing it as a key factor in winning.
@Victor-Meldrew well winning will make it much easier, losses, adversity and challenges will let you see how good the coach/leader is, or isnt...
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@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
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@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
Were, maybe. Possibly slipped a little and who knows under the new coach?
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@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
Were, maybe. Possibly slipped a little and who knows under the new coach?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
Were, maybe. Possibly slipped a little and who knows under the new coach?
If Razor had stayed, bearing in mind the fractures in the squad that didn't appear to be resolvable, we were only going to fall back. This way we have a chance to turn a page and get back
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@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
South Africa are the best in the world and then the French 2nd IMHO. The best performances under Robertson were the loses against the Boks in Ellis Park in 2024 and against France in 2024.
Then it's a toss-up between England and the All Blacks for 3rd/4th in the world. England recently won 12 in a row including slaughtering us at Twickenham so they are 3rd for me, even if the wheels fell off fkr them yesterday.
I think we are better than the rest of Tier 1 but (with the exception of Wales) they are snapping at our heals. Ireland seem to be slipping, Australia are bloody good with everyone available but can't cover injuries to key men, Italy are on the rise a bit, Scotland mercurial, Ireland are aging but still dangerous.
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Haven't followed the thread closely, but is the announcement today? Or maybe todays when Rassie announces that Scott Robertson is a new assistant coach? Hard to keep up
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@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
This is the thing.
When we get our shit together we can be as good as any AB team. RWC2023 against Ireland and the final, Ellis Park in 2022 and, to keep @reprobate happy, Eden park last year.
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years. Get that right and anything's possible.
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@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
This is the thing.
When we get our shit together we can be as good as any AB team. RWC2023 against Ireland and the final, Ellis Park in 2022 and, to keep @reprobate happy, Eden park last year.
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years. Get that right and anything's possible.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years
this is the astonishing thing for me. I thought this would be where the last coach would have huge strenghts, particularly in man management. But it just didn't work
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@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
This is the thing.
When we get our shit together we can be as good as any AB team. RWC2023 against Ireland and the final, Ellis Park in 2022 and, to keep @reprobate happy, Eden park last year.
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years. Get that right and anything's possible.
@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years
this is the astonishing thing for me. I thought this would be where the last coach would have huge strenghts, particularly in man management. But it just didn't work
@nzzp said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years
this is the astonishing thing for me. I thought this would be where the last coach would have huge strenghts, particularly in man management. But it just didn't work
Well, we won't be choosing the AB coach purely on domestic success anytime soon.
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@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
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@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes.
Be nice if he was given a chance to try.
@booboo said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes.
Be nice if he was given a chance to try.
He was given a 'kinda' chance in 2024, and for the first 60 minutes or so in most games he was generally very good - but the caveats are that he had to do absolutely everything and we had poor halfback kicking options. Then around 60 minutes he would be fatigued and couldn't carry our attack by himself anymore, Beauden and the bench halfback would come on (no Roigard remember), and it would get messy and we would go to shit and lose the game.
Then Robertson put McKenzie on the bench, and our last 20 improved (at the expense of our first 60). Our best backline performances ever since then have been when BB was injured. This more than anything else is where I lost all faith in Robertson.
Pair McKenzie with Roigard and we are immediately a far better team. Love to 23 and give him meaningful time at both 15 and 10. We completely wasted last year by not doing this. -
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
This is the thing.
When we get our shit together we can be as good as any AB team. RWC2023 against Ireland and the final, Ellis Park in 2022 and, to keep @reprobate happy, Eden park last year.
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years. Get that right and anything's possible.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Chris-B. said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@canefan said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The new group come in at a considerable disadvantage. Right now I see us behind SA, France and England in the race for RWC27
Seems like a bit of catstrophising.
Under Razor's tenure we played each of England and France four times and won three against each.
Two of those games we won against England were after terrible performances when we limped home. England hammered us out of sight in the most recent game at Twickenham. And they didn't get out of third gear.
The wins against France were against France C when most of their superstars at home. And they were unconvincing wins.
And then there was losing to Argentina home and away too.
We are not going to forget for a long time how woeful the performances were under Robertson's tenure.
The question is - is there a significant gap between us and England/France?
We beat full strength England three times and lost badly once. If - as you're saying - Razor was a terrible coach, then as long as we get someone good to replace him, I'd say there's not really any gap to overcome. To reinforce my point, England got beaten by Scotland this morning.
Same deal with France. We played them at full strength on their turf and lost by a point.
We are IMO neck-and-neck with these guys.
This is the thing.
When we get our shit together we can be as good as any AB team. RWC2023 against Ireland and the final, Ellis Park in 2022 and, to keep @reprobate happy, Eden park last year.
Genuinely think the on-field headspace thing is the issue, Gone backwards badly on that in the last 2 years. Get that right and anything's possible.
There have been patches where we have looked good for sure - for me the first half of Boks 1 in 2024 is one where they really struggled to stay with us. Then we went to shit so badly that we lost the game...
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@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
I don't. The players you named have all looked imperious behind dominating forwards. It's what they do when it's an arm wrestle that counts.
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@sparky said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@Victor-Meldrew Biggest issue for me for the All Blacks is at 10. Do we have players there remotely as good as our main opponents?
Jalibert was superb for France today. So classy. They also have Ntamack. The Saffas have Sacha. England have Ford and the Smiths.
DMac looks good in patches but can't drive a Test for 80 minutes. BB is well past his best. Love is unproven. Mounga is good going forward but is a sieve in defence.
I think the new coach is going to have a massive job matching our opponents at First Five.
I don't. The players you named have all looked imperious behind dominating forwards. It's what they do when it's an arm wrestle that counts.
@antipodean yeah we have the structure of a really good side, but we lacked the gameplan and leadership to change things when it wasnt working (this may or may not be a reflection on SB) but then what do you revert to if the game plan and/or style isnt very clear?
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Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
@frugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Here’s an idea. Why don’t we wait to see who performs well in Super and deserves selection?
we talking about the coach still?
Jokes aside, Super isn't Test. Similar, but success no longer necessarily transfers - they have quite different requirements.
