All Blacks v France Test 3
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@tim said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bones Yeah, there's the same difference between flanker and centre as there is between wing and centre, and it's also super rare to go from the wing to the midfield.
Great post all around.
But but Ardie played in the midfield at schoolboy level, he has all the attributes to play there now.
We have:
Goodhue
Laumape
Crotty
SBW
ALBWith other proven, very good midfielders hanging around like:
Buckman
Thomson
ProctorWhy the fuck should we bother throwing Ioane there? Oh he played there in schoolboy rugby. Plus he's shown amazing form in the midfield. If he's good enough, why doesn't that show out a level down? Oh, crap team, of course. But wait, he still looks great on the wing in said crap team! How puzzling.
@bones said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@tim said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bones Yeah, there's the same difference between flanker and centre as there is between wing and centre, and it's also super rare to go from the wing to the midfield.
Great post all around.
But but Ardie played in the midfield at schoolboy level, he has all the attributes to play there now.
We have:
Goodhue
Laumape
Crotty
SBW
ALBWith other proven, very good midfielders hanging around like:
Buckman
Thomson
ProctorWhy the fuck should we bother throwing Ioane there? Oh he played there in schoolboy rugby. Plus he's shown amazing form in the midfield. If he's good enough, why doesn't that show out a level down? Oh, crap team, of course. But wait, he still looks great on the wing in said crap team! How puzzling.
You forgot to mention Ngatai. The fern is disappointed.
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@bones said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@tim said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bones Yeah, there's the same difference between flanker and centre as there is between wing and centre, and it's also super rare to go from the wing to the midfield.
Great post all around.
But but Ardie played in the midfield at schoolboy level, he has all the attributes to play there now.
We have:
Goodhue
Laumape
Crotty
SBW
ALBWith other proven, very good midfielders hanging around like:
Buckman
Thomson
ProctorWhy the fuck should we bother throwing Ioane there? Oh he played there in schoolboy rugby. Plus he's shown amazing form in the midfield. If he's good enough, why doesn't that show out a level down? Oh, crap team, of course. But wait, he still looks great on the wing in said crap team! How puzzling.
You forgot to mention Ngatai. The fern is disappointed.
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@bones said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@tim said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bones Yeah, there's the same difference between flanker and centre as there is between wing and centre, and it's also super rare to go from the wing to the midfield.
Great post all around.
But but Ardie played in the midfield at schoolboy level, he has all the attributes to play there now.
We have:
Goodhue
Laumape
Crotty
SBW
ALBWith other proven, very good midfielders hanging around like:
Buckman
Thomson
ProctorWhy the fuck should we bother throwing Ioane there? Oh he played there in schoolboy rugby. Plus he's shown amazing form in the midfield. If he's good enough, why doesn't that show out a level down? Oh, crap team, of course. But wait, he still looks great on the wing in said crap team! How puzzling.
You forgot to mention Ngatai. The fern is disappointed.
@mn5 said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bones said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@tim said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bones Yeah, there's the same difference between flanker and centre as there is between wing and centre, and it's also super rare to go from the wing to the midfield.
Great post all around.
But but Ardie played in the midfield at schoolboy level, he has all the attributes to play there now.
We have:
Goodhue
Laumape
Crotty
SBW
ALBWith other proven, very good midfielders hanging around like:
Buckman
Thomson
ProctorWhy the fuck should we bother throwing Ioane there? Oh he played there in schoolboy rugby. Plus he's shown amazing form in the midfield. If he's good enough, why doesn't that show out a level down? Oh, crap team, of course. But wait, he still looks great on the wing in said crap team! How puzzling.
You forgot to mention Ngatai. The fern is disappointed.
how can you let anyone forget!
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Some top level whining bullshit:
@tim said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Some top level whining bullshit:
"We've got nothing to lose, we've got 80 minutes to play and we'll see what happens."
Including your self respect after that whinge.
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Anyone else think he's a candidate for WR to charge him with bringing the game into disrepute?
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Anyone else think he's a candidate for WR to charge him with bringing the game into disrepute?
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@cgrant said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bones said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@cgrant nice to see a couple of token North islanders.
I'm still perplexed as to why people think a world beating winger who's been nothing but ordinary at centre (at best) want to see him at centre. In test rugby.
Ioane was mostly used as 2nd five eight by Umaga, in a shit team. He has all the attributes to become a world class centre.
Just like Ardie Savea then.
Hayman really should've played 8 huh?
@bones I don't think Ioane playing at centre in the long-term should be dismissed. Inevitably, he will hit an age where he is no longer able to keep it up on the wing (as all our wingers inevitably do), but he could have an Umaga-like career path where he gradually transitions to the midfield. He certainly has the body-shape and ball-skills to do it. I agree that this week might be too soon for that though.
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Goodhue will be the long term centre, Ioane can therefore keep being the worlds best winger for a few more years.
@gunner said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Goodhue will be the long term centre, Ioane can therefore keep being the worlds best winger for a few more years.
There is no outstanding centre in NZ ... currently. Goodhue has yet to play a test match at this level. I think Ioane has the necessary dimension to become what the AB are looking for. The left wing spot won't be a problem since there are incredibly promising young guns coming (Caleb Clarke, Leicester Faingaanuku). So it is urgent to test Ioane there as the French team is not a great threat and the RWC is coming next year.
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@gunner said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Goodhue will be the long term centre, Ioane can therefore keep being the worlds best winger for a few more years.
There is no outstanding centre in NZ ... currently. Goodhue has yet to play a test match at this level. I think Ioane has the necessary dimension to become what the AB are looking for. The left wing spot won't be a problem since there are incredibly promising young guns coming (Caleb Clarke, Leicester Faingaanuku). So it is urgent to test Ioane there as the French team is not a great threat and the RWC is coming next year.
@cgrant said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@gunner said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Goodhue will be the long term centre, Ioane can therefore keep being the worlds best winger for a few more years.
There is no outstanding centre in NZ ... currently. Goodhue has nowyet to play a test match at this level. I think Ioane has the necessary dimension to become what the AB are looking for. The left wing spot won't be a problem since there are incredibly promising young guns coming (Caleb Clarke, Leicester Faingaanuku). So it is urgent to test Ioane there as the French team is not a great threat and the RWC is coming next year.
The Charlie Ngatai of 2018
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@bones I don't think Ioane playing at centre in the long-term should be dismissed. Inevitably, he will hit an age where he is no longer able to keep it up on the wing (as all our wingers inevitably do), but he could have an Umaga-like career path where he gradually transitions to the midfield. He certainly has the body-shape and ball-skills to do it. I agree that this week might be too soon for that though.
@junior said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bones I don't think Ioane playing at centre in the long-term should be dismissed. Inevitably, he will hit an age where he is no longer able to keep it up on the wing (as all our wingers inevitably do), but he could have an Umaga-like career path where he gradually transitions to the midfield. He certainly has the body-shape and ball-skills to do it. I agree that this week might be too soon for that though.
I didn't dismiss Ioane playing at centre in the long-term.
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@junior said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bones I don't think Ioane playing at centre in the long-term should be dismissed. Inevitably, he will hit an age where he is no longer able to keep it up on the wing (as all our wingers inevitably do), but he could have an Umaga-like career path where he gradually transitions to the midfield. He certainly has the body-shape and ball-skills to do it. I agree that this week might be too soon for that though.
I didn't dismiss Ioane playing at centre in the long-term.
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@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
I'm just bloody stunned by how thin we are two full seasons after a RWC. Losing half a dozen all timey greats was never goin to be easy to recover from but there was depth at the time at 10, in midfield and at loose head prop but now we're thin as fuck and even worse when it comes to combinations involving those positions plus in the loose forwards. We've had something like 30 tests since the last RWC yet where are the proven loose forwards after Reado (also aging) and a bit of depth at 7? Kaino was never gonna make another RWC cycle yet we don't have a clear successor at 6. Squire is close but didn't cover himself in glory last week. No quality 8 back up either. We're lucky at hooker that Taylor has really stepped up in Coles' absence of that'd be another problem position. Back up props are an issue also with Faumuina and Crockett gone. Massive stroke of luck that Karl T has come outta nowhere or we'd be in all sorts. And Ofa ain't a long term solution. At lock we have a stunning top trio when fit and two world class half-backs. No dramas in the outside backs aside from settling on a top combination. Midfield is messy. We've had plenty of unavailability for various reasons but at times SBW and Crotty have looked good together and also Crotty and ALB in 2016. But I don't think SBW is a certainty to make it to the RWC and that leaves us really scratching unless we bring another grunty AND rounded midfielder in (this isn't Laumape) and give him a dozen games so we have someone to compliment Crotty and ALB. At 10 we need now to give Mo'unga minutes and as many as possible. D Mac isnt the back up option there, but could be a third option as a utility come RWC time with another Super Rugby season under his belt.
I think there are two major causes of things not being as settled as we would like at this stage in the rwc cycle.
First is the Lions tour. A few guys obviously stuck around for that before leaving to cash in up north where they possibly would have left a year or two earlier if the Lions tour wasn't happening. Eg. Kaino, Charlie F, Crockett, Cruden, TKB, Sopoaga, Fekitoa and Luatua (to a lesser extent) all held out until after the Lions to bugger off or retire. That has meant the post 2015 rebuild has been staggered so you only get 2 years to rebuild rather than the usual 4.The other major factor is the shear amount of long term injuries guys have been getting. Established guys like Coles, Read, Dagg, Ben Smith, Crotty and SBW have been out regularly or for extended periods meaning combinations haven't been able to form with guys coming in. Then on top of that you have newer guys like Squire, Laulala, Hames, Moli, Aumua, Jordie, nms and Bird being long term injured and missing out on important development time and chances to nail down a spot.
Of course you then also have to add guys like Ardie, Elliot Dixon, Harris and Tuipulotu not exactly stepping up to where we would want them to.
Fair points, and I had considered both the Lions tour carrot and injuries to the emerging guys. I think the latter is most poignant as the former was predictable.
But long term injuries to established guys are opportunities to blood replacements. Taylor has stepped up for Coles. The outside backs are fine in terms of depth but lack combination. But midfield is messy as is 8.
@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
But midfield is messy as is 8.
Not helped by injuries and, to a certain extent, not allowing combinations to develop. The 1st choice midfield should be pretty settled by now but you sense Hansen & co. are still doing too much tinkering.
We just need a solid, if unspectacular, 12/13 combination and I just don't see that at all.
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@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
But midfield is messy as is 8.
Not helped by injuries and, to a certain extent, not allowing combinations to develop. The 1st choice midfield should be pretty settled by now but you sense Hansen & co. are still doing too much tinkering.
We just need a solid, if unspectacular, 12/13 combination and I just don't see that at all.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
But midfield is messy as is 8.
Not helped by injuries and, to a certain extent, not allowing combinations to develop. The 1st choice midfield should be pretty settled by now but you sense Hansen & co. are still doing too much tinkering.
We just need a solid, if unspectacular, 12/13 combination and I just don't see that at all.
ALB & SBW doesn't fit this bill?
Goodhue is just a Canterbury pick if you ask me.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
But midfield is messy as is 8.
Not helped by injuries and, to a certain extent, not allowing combinations to develop. The 1st choice midfield should be pretty settled by now but you sense Hansen & co. are still doing too much tinkering.
We just need a solid, if unspectacular, 12/13 combination and I just don't see that at all.
ALB & SBW doesn't fit this bill?
Goodhue is just a Canterbury pick if you ask me.
@majorrage
The fact that ALB & SBW aren't a settled pair kinda proves my point.
A year and a bit out from RWC2019 and it's 2 out of ALB/SBW/Crotty - sometimes in different positions.
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@majorrage
The fact that ALB & SBW aren't a settled pair kinda proves my point.
A year and a bit out from RWC2019 and it's 2 out of ALB/SBW/Crotty - sometimes in different positions.
@victor-meldrew SWB and Crotty are the starters if fit for any test
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@victor-meldrew SWB and Crotty are the starters if fit for any test
@wreck-diver said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@victor-meldrew SWB and Crotty are the starters if fit for any test
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@majorrage
The fact that ALB & SBW aren't a settled pair kinda proves my point.
A year and a bit out from RWC2019 and it's 2 out of ALB/SBW/Crotty - sometimes in different positions.
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@majorrage
The fact that ALB & SBW aren't a settled pair kinda proves my point.
A year and a bit out from RWC2019 and it's 2 out of ALB/SBW/Crotty - sometimes in different positions.
I'm beginning to wonder if that is such a bad thing.
Although we were lucky to have Nonu/Smith, the times they couldn't play together caused no end of headaches at times (eg Ben Smith filling in)
There aren't many teams around that don't get issues around injuries in the centres these days and hoping for a pair that are available more often than not may be wishful thinking.
Having the available combos with Crotty moving between the two jerseys is great. -
@wreck-diver said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@victor-meldrew SWB and Crotty are the starters if fit for any test
@bones :grinning_face:
