England vs All Blacks
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Only just watched my recording of the game. After reading this tgread and various things in the media i was expecting a totally different game.
What i saw was a dreary, wet kick fest. Other than being fired up for 20 mins and taking two chances well England offered fuck all. The two Mauls that ended up with a knock on were the only times they looked remotely threatening.
For the ABs i saw 30 mins of rubbish tactics of kicking everything. Worse still it was poorly executed. Crotty was clearly given a message to take out with him which was stop kicking the fucking thing away.
Nobody really played poorly IMO, kicking aside.
A Smith wasn't as bad as some have said. Poor kicking at times and the pass to Ardie. But Ardie should have caught that or not have been so flat.SBW also gets judge fucking harshly. I was expecting a shocker. He dropped one poor pass and dropped the high ball as he got a white shoulder in his back. There was also a nothing kick but that was clearly a team tactic given everyone was doing it. What exactly did people expect from him? His propensity to get injured half way through a game is a big problem. However that should count Crotty, Squire, Moody and Coles out too.
Crotty in particular showed he is still valuable after being written off on here lately.
Dmac was a bit of a mixed bag. Some good cleaning up and a few good runs but his ball security was poor and he was partly to blame for the first england try.
Anyway hopefully the weather isn't shit for the Ireland game.
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@taniwharugby I'm confused with where the offside line is tbh. My understanding is if it's a ruck, then the offside line is deemed to be at the hindmost point of your own player, but if it's a tackle then it has to be at the hindmost of any player involved. Not sure if this is a tackle or a ruck or whether it started of as a ruck and then became a tackle.
@akan004 said in England vs All Blacks:
@taniwharugby I'm confused with where the offside line is tbh. My understanding is if it's a ruck, then the offside line is deemed to be at the hindmost point of your own player, but if it's a tackle then it has to be at the hindmost of any player involved. Not sure if this is a tackle or a ruck or whether it started of as a ruck and then became a tackle.
One of the problems, at least from my armchair, is that the refs are giving a running commentary on the field - “hands off” “its a ruck” “back number 7”, motioning to players to get back on side etc etc.
I’m not against communication between ref and players and helping the game flow, but I think it’s gone too far and on for too long. So as experimental changes and trials have occurred, the refs are talking more - not less.
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@akan004 said in England vs All Blacks:
@taniwharugby I'm confused with where the offside line is tbh. My understanding is if it's a ruck, then the offside line is deemed to be at the hindmost point of your own player, but if it's a tackle then it has to be at the hindmost of any player involved. Not sure if this is a tackle or a ruck or whether it started of as a ruck and then became a tackle.
One of the problems, at least from my armchair, is that the refs are giving a running commentary on the field - “hands off” “its a ruck” “back number 7”, motioning to players to get back on side etc etc.
I’m not against communication between ref and players and helping the game flow, but I think it’s gone too far and on for too long. So as experimental changes and trials have occurred, the refs are talking more - not less.
@act-crusader said in England vs All Blacks:
I’m not against communication between ref and players and helping the game flow, but I think it’s gone too far and on for too long. So as experimental changes and trials have occurred, the refs are talking more - not less.
The last scrum of the match, a collapsed mess, and Garcess shouting at Underhill to stay bound and actually pushing him back to just a little bit less offside. Had me thinking "how did we get here?" Helicopter refs.
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My attempt. From the wide angle, as every thing I am seeing is from the deceptive close view, (and it still looks offside)
Deliberately chose yellow for the photo-shopped line ....
Even from a ruck 5m of the halfway line where the camera is positioned. Look at the difference in angles of the halfway line and the mown line. I have tracked the yellow line against the mower line
@rapido said in England vs All Blacks:
My attempt. From the wide angle, as every thing I am seeing is from the deceptive close view, (and it still looks offside)
Deliberately chose yellow for the photo-shopped line ....
Even from a ruck 5m of the halfway line where the camera is positioned. Look at the difference in angles of the halfway line and the mown line. I have tracked the yellow line against the mower line
I’d love to know the formulas you used to ensure angles, measurements and scale were accounted for when drawing that yellow line on that 2D image
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@rapido said in England vs All Blacks:
My attempt. From the wide angle, as every thing I am seeing is from the deceptive close view, (and it still looks offside)
Deliberately chose yellow for the photo-shopped line ....
Even from a ruck 5m of the halfway line where the camera is positioned. Look at the difference in angles of the halfway line and the mown line. I have tracked the yellow line against the mower line
I’d love to know the formulas you used to ensure angles, measurements and scale were accounted for when drawing that yellow line on that 2D image
@act-crusader said in England vs All Blacks:
@rapido said in England vs All Blacks:
My attempt. From the wide angle, as every thing I am seeing is from the deceptive close view, (and it still looks offside)
Deliberately chose yellow for the photo-shopped line ....
Even from a ruck 5m of the halfway line where the camera is positioned. Look at the difference in angles of the halfway line and the mown line. I have tracked the yellow line against the mower line
I’d love to know the formulas you used to ensure angles, measurements and scale were accounted for when drawing that yellow line on that 2D image
It's easy to do - draw numerous equally space perpendicular lines. Overlay and warp the corners so that they're pinned at the top (halfway line and 10m line crossing the touch line), adjust at other end so that the outside lines overlay the painted lines on the field.
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I haven't seen any link to GT12s write-up on the front page?
It's an interesting read.
https://www.thesilverfern.com/2018/11/11/phew-abs-escape-on-armistice-day/
Hopefully 'interesting' includes 'good' in some way
I had another rewatch of the first 20 odd minutes, and we really started poorly. We gave them possession in our half twice (BBBR drop, Taylor overthrow), and both times they scored points. On that first try, it looks to me like SBW makes the wrong read and goes back across field, leaving us short to cover the left side. No idea why he did that as it left Rieko lost covering two men.
We missed some luck - if Dmac could have held the Barrett bomb (one of his only contestable kicks in the half), it would have been 8-7 after 16 minutes. Sadly, he dropped it.
It's certainly true that our box kicks were poor, but during that first 20, almost all of the aimless kicks came from Barrett (SBW had one shocker). The missed penalty touch is also a bit unforgivable, given the state of the match. Other errors gave England the ball too - such as Ardie losing the ball in the tackle to Itoje, and I saw another bad line out - looked like a missed lift (by Franks or Read, I couldn't quite see who was meant to be jumping). With the scrum only holding its ground, I'd say that our set piece was actually another contributor to the poor start, and that's probably one reason why Taylor has got no MOTM votes - which is rare for him.
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Only just watched my recording of the game. After reading this tgread and various things in the media i was expecting a totally different game.
What i saw was a dreary, wet kick fest. Other than being fired up for 20 mins and taking two chances well England offered fuck all. The two Mauls that ended up with a knock on were the only times they looked remotely threatening.
For the ABs i saw 30 mins of rubbish tactics of kicking everything. Worse still it was poorly executed. Crotty was clearly given a message to take out with him which was stop kicking the fucking thing away.
Nobody really played poorly IMO, kicking aside.
A Smith wasn't as bad as some have said. Poor kicking at times and the pass to Ardie. But Ardie should have caught that or not have been so flat.SBW also gets judge fucking harshly. I was expecting a shocker. He dropped one poor pass and dropped the high ball as he got a white shoulder in his back. There was also a nothing kick but that was clearly a team tactic given everyone was doing it. What exactly did people expect from him? His propensity to get injured half way through a game is a big problem. However that should count Crotty, Squire, Moody and Coles out too.
Crotty in particular showed he is still valuable after being written off on here lately.
Dmac was a bit of a mixed bag. Some good cleaning up and a few good runs but his ball security was poor and he was partly to blame for the first england try.
Anyway hopefully the weather isn't shit for the Ireland game.
@pukunui said in England vs All Blacks:
Only just watched my recording of the game. After reading this tgread and various things in the media i was expecting a totally different game.
What i saw was a dreary, wet kick fest. Other than being fired up for 20 mins and taking two chances well England offered fuck all. The two Mauls that ended up with a knock on were the only times they looked remotely threatening.
For the ABs i saw 30 mins of rubbish tactics of kicking everything. Worse still it was poorly executed. Crotty was clearly given a message to take out with him which was stop kicking the fucking thing away.
Nobody really played poorly IMO, kicking aside.
A Smith wasn't as bad as some have said. Poor kicking at times and the pass to Ardie. But Ardie should have caught that or not have been so flat.SBW also gets judge fucking harshly. I was expecting a shocker. He dropped one poor pass and dropped the high ball as he got a white shoulder in his back. There was also a nothing kick but that was clearly a team tactic given everyone was doing it. What exactly did people expect from him? His propensity to get injured half way through a game is a big problem. However that should count Crotty, Squire, Moody and Coles out too.
Crotty in particular showed he is still valuable after being written off on here lately.
Dmac was a bit of a mixed bag. Some good cleaning up and a few good runs but his ball security was poor and he was partly to blame for the first england try.
Anyway hopefully the weather isn't shit for the Ireland game.
I seem to recall an earlier post where some wise person pointed out something similar.
But but but favouritism, money, contracts, reputation and being expected to win the match on his own, as opposed to just being effective, a strong ball runner and hole puncher and defensive bulwark, means drop him from as great a height as possible.
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Only just watched my recording of the game. After reading this tgread and various things in the media i was expecting a totally different game.
What i saw was a dreary, wet kick fest. Other than being fired up for 20 mins and taking two chances well England offered fuck all. The two Mauls that ended up with a knock on were the only times they looked remotely threatening.
For the ABs i saw 30 mins of rubbish tactics of kicking everything. Worse still it was poorly executed. Crotty was clearly given a message to take out with him which was stop kicking the fucking thing away.
Nobody really played poorly IMO, kicking aside.
A Smith wasn't as bad as some have said. Poor kicking at times and the pass to Ardie. But Ardie should have caught that or not have been so flat.SBW also gets judge fucking harshly. I was expecting a shocker. He dropped one poor pass and dropped the high ball as he got a white shoulder in his back. There was also a nothing kick but that was clearly a team tactic given everyone was doing it. What exactly did people expect from him? His propensity to get injured half way through a game is a big problem. However that should count Crotty, Squire, Moody and Coles out too.
Crotty in particular showed he is still valuable after being written off on here lately.
Dmac was a bit of a mixed bag. Some good cleaning up and a few good runs but his ball security was poor and he was partly to blame for the first england try.
Anyway hopefully the weather isn't shit for the Ireland game.
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@pukunui said in England vs All Blacks:
Crotty in particular showed he is still valuable after being written off on here lately.
See comments above about Dubs. We fans write people off too early.
@booboo said in England vs All Blacks:
@pukunui said in England vs All Blacks:
Crotty in particular showed he is still valuable after being written off on here lately.
See comments above about Dubs. We fans write people off too early.
Except when we refuse to accept that a guy is actually past it.
See defenders of Julian Savea when it was clear he had lost his pace and was barely Super level.
And, weirdly, the coaches with NMS.
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The scrums weren't set properly all game. There was no engage and I think that helped the white team.
I was screaming at the ref but in the second half he rebuked both front rows for not keeping a space, saying " you guys don't want to keep a gap".
I'm a bit sympathetic (a bit) here because any decent scrum needs buy in from both teams but it really needed sorting out earlier.
We missed a trick there but England held a steady scrum throughout. -
Hopefully 'interesting' includes 'good' in some way
I had another rewatch of the first 20 odd minutes, and we really started poorly. We gave them possession in our half twice (BBBR drop, Taylor overthrow), and both times they scored points. On that first try, it looks to me like SBW makes the wrong read and goes back across field, leaving us short to cover the left side. No idea why he did that as it left Rieko lost covering two men.
We missed some luck - if Dmac could have held the Barrett bomb (one of his only contestable kicks in the half), it would have been 8-7 after 16 minutes. Sadly, he dropped it.
It's certainly true that our box kicks were poor, but during that first 20, almost all of the aimless kicks came from Barrett (SBW had one shocker). The missed penalty touch is also a bit unforgivable, given the state of the match. Other errors gave England the ball too - such as Ardie losing the ball in the tackle to Itoje, and I saw another bad line out - looked like a missed lift (by Franks or Read, I couldn't quite see who was meant to be jumping). With the scrum only holding its ground, I'd say that our set piece was actually another contributor to the poor start, and that's probably one reason why Taylor has got no MOTM votes - which is rare for him.
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Conspiracy alert:
No replay of the dodgy touchfinder described above by Bones
No replay of the Read knock on under the sticks. As the scrum was being slowed down by a contact lens replacement or any other thing to slow the game down the Black team were querying the ref for a highshot.
I think a knock on replay in front of the sticks with only minutes to go ain't bad broadcasting . Some game saving defence there.
Replay? No effin way....
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@pukunui said in England vs All Blacks:
Only just watched my recording of the game. After reading this tgread and various things in the media i was expecting a totally different game.
What i saw was a dreary, wet kick fest. Other than being fired up for 20 mins and taking two chances well England offered fuck all. The two Mauls that ended up with a knock on were the only times they looked remotely threatening.
For the ABs i saw 30 mins of rubbish tactics of kicking everything. Worse still it was poorly executed. Crotty was clearly given a message to take out with him which was stop kicking the fucking thing away.
Nobody really played poorly IMO, kicking aside.
A Smith wasn't as bad as some have said. Poor kicking at times and the pass to Ardie. But Ardie should have caught that or not have been so flat.SBW also gets judge fucking harshly. I was expecting a shocker. He dropped one poor pass and dropped the high ball as he got a white shoulder in his back. There was also a nothing kick but that was clearly a team tactic given everyone was doing it. What exactly did people expect from him? His propensity to get injured half way through a game is a big problem. However that should count Crotty, Squire, Moody and Coles out too.
Crotty in particular showed he is still valuable after being written off on here lately.
Dmac was a bit of a mixed bag. Some good cleaning up and a few good runs but his ball security was poor and he was partly to blame for the first england try.
Anyway hopefully the weather isn't shit for the Ireland game.
I seem to recall an earlier post where some wise person pointed out something similar.
But but but favouritism, money, contracts, reputation and being expected to win the match on his own, as opposed to just being effective, a strong ball runner and hole puncher and defensive bulwark, means drop him from as great a height as possible.
@booboo said in England vs All Blacks:
@pukunui said in England vs All Blacks:
Only just watched my recording of the game. After reading this tgread and various things in the media i was expecting a totally different game.
What i saw was a dreary, wet kick fest. Other than being fired up for 20 mins and taking two chances well England offered fuck all. The two Mauls that ended up with a knock on were the only times they looked remotely threatening.
For the ABs i saw 30 mins of rubbish tactics of kicking everything. Worse still it was poorly executed. Crotty was clearly given a message to take out with him which was stop kicking the fucking thing away.
Nobody really played poorly IMO, kicking aside.
A Smith wasn't as bad as some have said. Poor kicking at times and the pass to Ardie. But Ardie should have caught that or not have been so flat.SBW also gets judge fucking harshly. I was expecting a shocker. He dropped one poor pass and dropped the high ball as he got a white shoulder in his back. There was also a nothing kick but that was clearly a team tactic given everyone was doing it. What exactly did people expect from him? His propensity to get injured half way through a game is a big problem. However that should count Crotty, Squire, Moody and Coles out too.
Crotty in particular showed he is still valuable after being written off on here lately.
Dmac was a bit of a mixed bag. Some good cleaning up and a few good runs but his ball security was poor and he was partly to blame for the first england try.
Anyway hopefully the weather isn't shit for the Ireland game.
I seem to recall an earlier post where some wise person pointed out something similar.
But but but favouritism, money, contracts, reputation and being expected to win the match on his own, as opposed to just being effective, a strong ball runner and hole puncher and defensive bulwark, means drop him from as great a height as possible.
If only Sonny was hole punching and running the ball strongly, then he wouldn’t be talked about.
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@gt12 actually that missed penalty touch - isn't that just awful reffing? That ball was well out and was tapped in by someone who was out. I seem to recall they clarified the laws around ball in touch fairly recently - is this now allowed?
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@margin_walker said in England vs All Blacks:
2 points worth noting
- He's Welsh
- He lives for the reaction he gets from Kiwis, it keeps his profile sky high online despite the paywall. Every time he mentions New Zealand, the bloke gets an unofficial syndication in Stuff or The NZ Herald. If everyone just stopped talking about his latest missives they'd wither behind the paywall.
That's hardly our fault - media be media. IIRC twice he was given regular columns in NZ publications and both times he got the boot (a Sunday paper and NZ %Rugby Monthly) because the readers didn't want his drivel.
@nepia said in England vs All Blacks:
the readers didn't want his drivel.
Actually, his reputation among genuine Pom rugby supporters is that of being a complete and utter tosser. I just laugh at his ineptitude of his "analysis"
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@jc said in England vs All Blacks:
thems some bitter, bitter tears!
@taniwharugby said in England vs All Blacks:
thems some bitter, bitter tears!
Perhaps a Fern whiparound to send him a case of Hawkes Bay lemons? :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
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I’ll check it when I get home, but I thought it was a legit knock back due to a poor kick.
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Law 18.2 c says you can jump from inside and throw it back regardless of whether they end up in touch afterward and regardless of whether the ball has crossed the plane. Has that one been changed?
@gt12 said in England vs All Blacks:
Law 18.2 c says you can jump from inside and throw it back regardless of whether they end up in touch afterward and regardless of whether the ball has crossed the plane. Has that one been changed?
Ah hah, cheers! Still wouldn't have minded a replay, it looked tight. I think that's what's changed recently isn't it?
