Rugby World Cup 2019 - How are we tracking?
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@98blueandgold said in Rugby World Cup 2019 - How are we tracking?:
Was the 2015 team more settled? Possibly. Pack was sorted. Only 14 was contentious, that's biggest difference.
2019 is still a very good team who can win wc but issue is combination I think. Who are our best midfield and back three?? We have great players but who will win WC for us?
I am not sure at this stage. Maybe crotty and goodhue with ALB off bench. Back three changes for me weekly, but for me Barrett, Ben and Reiko (although they never will)I dunno, I think it's easy to look back on 2015 with rose-tinted glasses when thinking about how "settled" they were. Off the top of my head, I can think of the following of areas where we had real selection doubts:
- Loosehead prop, where Joe Moody replaced Tony Woodock during the RWC itself.
- Lock, where we took only 3 locks to the tournament and, effectively, had Kaino as Whitelock's and Retallick's backup.
- First-five, where Dan Carter (who ended up as the best player in the world that year) was lucky to get selected after 2 years on injury and / or poor form and had to rely on Cruden being injured out of the entire year (and we'd also had, at various times, Carter, Slade, Barrett and Sopoaga playing in the no. 10 jersey).
- Back three, where we had an out of sort Savea on one wing, with two newbies in Milner-Skudder and Naholo in the mix too (with guys like Jane and Dagg having filled the right wing spot for the previous three years, but then failing to make the tournament).
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Question
If we win the World Cup next year, does that diminish the careers of those guys we would consider all time greats?
If we were able to lose all of those amazing players in one hit, with barely a hiccup, go on to 4 more years of winning everything, and then retain the Cup, does that kind of validate the "they only look great playing in a great team" crowd?
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sorry
Discuss
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@tim said in Rugby World Cup 2019 - How are we tracking?:
I'm guessing that we need to prepare for Sam Cane being unavailable?
We are nearly there in the Forwards, but as Tim said we need to be prepared for Sam Cane not being available. Lots of cover at 7 though. I'd love to see Akira Ioane brought in for a couple of tests. He is fantastic ball-carrier who could have a significant impact at the RWC.
Half Back is my biggest worry. England, Ireland and South Africa have much better players in that key position. Both Aaron Smith and TJP struggled on Saturday. TTT isn't ready yet.
A couple of changes are needed in the backs. SBW is yesterday's man. He no longer has the pace to break the line. Crotty or Laemape are better options at 12. George Bridge should come into the squad and could start on the Right Wing, allowing BFA to go back to Full Back.
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Question
If we win the World Cup next year, does that diminish the careers of those guys we would consider all time greats?
If we were able to lose all of those amazing players in one hit, with barely a hiccup, go on to 4 more years of winning everything, and then retain the Cup, does that kind of validate the "they only look great playing in a great team" crowd?
@mariner4life said in Rugby World Cup 2019 - How are we tracking?:
Question
If we win the World Cup next year, does that diminish the careers of those guys we would consider all time greats?
If we were able to lose all of those amazing players in one hit, with barely a hiccup, go on to 4 more years of winning everything, and then retain the Cup, does that kind of validate the "they only look great playing in a great team" crowd?
I"ll bite.
Nope.
For further discussion, wait until I have had another wine or two
Seriously, though, that team was full of players who were dominant at the top level for a decade or more. Their legacy is not tarnished. I reckon we're less than 50% likely to win the next cup; it's insanely hard, and there will be tough, tight games on the way. Not confident -- hopeful ,but not confident
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This has a little bit of a 2007 feel about it. We're about the best team in the world with fantastic depth in most positions. But we've had some signs of cracks and in our a few key positions we don't actually know who our best option is with lots of guys looking good but not consistent enough to lock down the position.
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If Nonu looks half decent in next years SR is there any chance of a recall or does his age automatically put him out of contention despite being a cut above when at his best?
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If Nonu looks half decent in next years SR is there any chance of a recall or does his age automatically put him out of contention despite being a cut above when at his best?
@african-monkey I really can't see that happening, but shit, Goodhue with an in form Nonu is a tasty sounding midfield.
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@junior I wouldn't say Carter was lucky to be selected for the RWC. By the time the actual RWC squad was selected it was after the ABs had demolished the Wallabies at Eden Park and Carter produced a performance that was clear that he was back.
@kiwimurph said in Rugby World Cup 2019 - How are we tracking?:
@junior I wouldn't say Carter was lucky to be selected for the RWC. By the time the actual RWC squad was selected it was after the ABs had demolished the Wallabies at Eden Park and Carter produced a performance that was clear that he was back.
"Lucky" is probably not the best word to use, but it might be fair to say that, had Cruden not been injured, it's not entirely clear that Carter goes on to have the role he eventually did.
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I think there's a chance that the loose forward trio at the RWC will be Read, Cane and Papali'i. None of the blindsides post Kaino have impressed and if Dalton can have a good Super campaign at blindside, it would be worth a shot to play him in the RC and see how he goes. We usually go in with a bolter at most RWCs, it could be him this time.
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I think there's a chance that the loose forward trio at the RWC will be Read, Cane and Papali'i. None of the blindsides post Kaino have impressed and if Dalton can have a good Super campaign at blindside, it would be worth a shot to play him in the RC and see how he goes. We usually go in with a bolter at most RWCs, it could be him this time.
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Whilst I can’t see too much change in personal moving forward you never know when someone will have an outstanding season and push their claims or if there’s a lack of form from an incumbent or injury.
players I will be watching a little bit closer during super rugby are.Paripari Parkinson
Dalton Papalii
Akira Ioane
George Bridge
Billy Proctor
Wil Jordon
Brad WeberI believe if Akira has a massive super campaign,he has to be in the frame,also George Bridge comes into the same equation..
Brad Weber is probably ranked outside the group,but still has an opportunity if injuries arrive, I put Dalton in this area.
Just threw out a couple of other names out there..I really rate Parkinson to me he’s the closest to a Whitelock or Retallick moving forward,but maybe post World Cup he comes into the picture. -
@akan004 said in Rugby World Cup 2019 - How are we tracking?:
@bones A starting 6 or a bench cover for 8/6?
Bench cover for 6, 7, 8, 12, 13, 11, 14.
As well as head coach, team doctor and general miracle worker, Head physio, head trainer, director of psychology, etc. He'll be stationed below Blake Gibson.
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How are we tracking?
Pretty darn good I’d say.
We’ve lost what 3 or 4 games in the last 4 years?
Not always playing great rugby, but still winning. Winning ugly I think they call it. Nothing wrong with that, it builds character.
I tend to think the coaches are really experimenting with different game plans, all the while keeping something tucked up their sleeves for next year. -
We have a a combative, physical forward pack who will not be dominated and stable scrum & lineout. With those things you are on the shortlist to win the World Cup.
Unfortunately, comparing the two teams in the first post we no longer have (in order of importance); historically good defence, reliable goal kicking, confidence in the decision making of our 9, confidence in the decision making of our 10 and a stable midfield. Those things make me doubt the ability of this team to grind out a win like the 2011 Final or 2015 semi-final when things are tight.
The lack of concern (at least publicly) for some of those issues is alarming. The Lions series was an unpalatable result (if Chicago wasn't already) and should have been a major turning point for the side like the '93 Lions test loss, '07 World Cup loss or even '09 season where the coaching staff rung the alarm bells before the EOYT. Instead it seems to be business as usual for the side.
Hansen (and I guess Fox) are the only two in the whole set up who know what a RWC loss tastes like. Read, Whitelock, SBW and B.Smith have an idea how things were before the hoodoo was lifted. IMO there is a very real chance we make the same mistake we did in '99 where all warning signs were ignored from '98 and things were 'business as usual' after we mopped France etc. Many (including myself) made the mistake of thinking enough of the infrastructure remained from the 95-7 teams to assume '98 was an anomaly - but it wasn't.
That said, things can change, the '95 and '03 RWC sides were unfathomable 1 year out and those were both good sides. So by no means are we doomed, I just worry the coaching staff have a rosy view of their ability to hit the switch when required.
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We have a a combative, physical forward pack who will not be dominated and stable scrum & lineout. With those things you are on the shortlist to win the World Cup.
Unfortunately, comparing the two teams in the first post we no longer have (in order of importance); historically good defence, reliable goal kicking, confidence in the decision making of our 9, confidence in the decision making of our 10 and a stable midfield. Those things make me doubt the ability of this team to grind out a win like the 2011 Final or 2015 semi-final when things are tight.
The lack of concern (at least publicly) for some of those issues is alarming. The Lions series was an unpalatable result (if Chicago wasn't already) and should have been a major turning point for the side like the '93 Lions test loss, '07 World Cup loss or even '09 season where the coaching staff rung the alarm bells before the EOYT. Instead it seems to be business as usual for the side.
Hansen (and I guess Fox) are the only two in the whole set up who know what a RWC loss tastes like. Read, Whitelock, SBW and B.Smith have an idea how things were before the hoodoo was lifted. IMO there is a very real chance we make the same mistake we did in '99 where all warning signs were ignored from '98 and things were 'business as usual' after we mopped France etc. Many (including myself) made the mistake of thinking enough of the infrastructure remained from the 95-7 teams to assume '98 was an anomaly - but it wasn't.
That said, things can change, the '95 and '03 RWC sides were unfathomable 1 year out and those were both good sides. So by no means are we doomed, I just worry the coaching staff have a rosy view of their ability to hit the switch when required.
@rotated We have shown our ability to win ugly two times this year against quality committed opposition (SA in Pretoria, and England). As you say we are in the mix, I think we have the quality required to win the cup, and superior depth to any other country. Having said all that, as we observed over the 24 years from 1987 to 2011, it is a difficult competition to win and should not be taken for granted. We fans have been spoiled of late, but should be under no illusions that an AB win will be easy in knock out rugby, one off game and we are on the plane home. Shag knows what he is doing though, and I think the squad is building very well.
