Black Caps v India
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@akan004 said in Black Caps v India:
@newsjunkie The problem with Sachin was that he almost always failed during a tight chase. Hence why I rate Lara and Kohli ahead of him. They perform when the pressure is on.
This is a myth. Neither Lara nor Kohli open the innings in ODIs, and both have "failed" in plenty of chases. Lara's 153 against Aus in a test chase gets him a lot of deserved credit, but few remember that he was dropped towards the end. By Contrast Tendulkar's magnificent 136 in the 4th innings against Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain in their absolute pomp, with back spasms - fell short by 17 runs. Tendulkar scored 98 in a must-win WC game in 2003 against Pakistan - he was lucky enough that Dravid and Kaif finished the game behind him.
There are literally dozens of instances where Tendulkar won the match single-handedly for India - in tests and ODIs. But confirmation bias is a powerful thing.
All that being said, Tendulkar did have his mental frailties, especially in the 2nd half of his career. He simply wasn't as good a player after his elbow injury in the early 2000s. The problem is that even at 70% of his prime, he was still good enough to be effective to play for another decade. Most other players, once they pass their prime - Ponting, etc, fade away within a year or so. And many today remember the Tendulkar from the 2nd half of his career, forgetting the absolute dominance of the 1992-2002 timeframe.
Edit: Here's a link to an article about the Chennai test - it was around 20 years ago and Cricinfo's done a decent write-up on it. Bit of a long read, but good one if you like to read - http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1172609
@newsjunkie said in Black Caps v India:
@akan004 said in Black Caps v India:
@newsjunkie The problem with Sachin was that he almost always failed during a tight chase. Hence why I rate Lara and Kohli ahead of him. They perform when the pressure is on.
This is a myth. Neither Lara nor Kohli open the innings in ODIs, and both have "failed" in plenty of chases. Lara's 153 against Aus in a test chase gets him a lot of deserved credit, but few remember that he was dropped towards the end. By Contrast Tendulkar's magnificent 136 in the 4th innings against Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain in their absolute pomp, with back spasms - fell short by 17 runs. Tendulkar scored 98 in a must-win WC game in 2003 against Pakistan - he was lucky enough that Dravid and Kaif finished the game behind him.
There are literally dozens of instances where Tendulkar won the match single-handedly for India - in tests and ODIs. But confirmation bias is a powerful thing.
All that being said, Tendulkar did have his mental frailties, especially in the 2nd half of his career. He simply wasn't as good a player after his elbow injury in the early 2000s. The problem is that even at 70% of his prime, he was still good enough to be effective to play for another decade. Most other players, once they pass their prime - Ponting, etc, fade away within a year or so. And many today remember the Tendulkar from the 2nd half of his career, forgetting the absolute dominance of the 1992-2002 timeframe.
Edit: Here's a link to an article about the Chennai test - it was around 20 years ago and Cricinfo's done a decent write-up on it. Bit of a long read, but good one if you like to read - http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1172609
Those examples of Tendulkar winning a match single handed are him getting out and leaving someone else to finish?
Tendulkar has lots of points in his favour for best since Bradman. So does Lara. So does Ponting. So does Waugh. So does Kallis. So does Richards. So does Sobers. So does Dravid. There just isn't the clear separation between those players that you claim.
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This Tendulkar v Lara argument is putting me to sleep.
Someone give me a nudge when we’re back talking about Black Caps v India.
Ta.@Gunner said in Black Caps v India:
This Tendulkar v Lara argument is putting me to sleep.
Someone give me a nudge when we’re back talking about Black Caps v India.
Ta.Bit hard when it doesn't start til tomorrow but I'd say the team with the most runs will win.
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I'll take the word of two different international players who told me Lara was the best they played against
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
I'll take the word of two different international players who told me Lara was the best they played against
Name and shame
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@newsjunkie said in Black Caps v India:
@akan004 said in Black Caps v India:
@newsjunkie The problem with Sachin was that he almost always failed during a tight chase. Hence why I rate Lara and Kohli ahead of him. They perform when the pressure is on.
This is a myth. Neither Lara nor Kohli open the innings in ODIs, and both have "failed" in plenty of chases. Lara's 153 against Aus in a test chase gets him a lot of deserved credit, but few remember that he was dropped towards the end. By Contrast Tendulkar's magnificent 136 in the 4th innings against Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain in their absolute pomp, with back spasms - fell short by 17 runs. Tendulkar scored 98 in a must-win WC game in 2003 against Pakistan - he was lucky enough that Dravid and Kaif finished the game behind him.
There are literally dozens of instances where Tendulkar won the match single-handedly for India - in tests and ODIs. But confirmation bias is a powerful thing.
All that being said, Tendulkar did have his mental frailties, especially in the 2nd half of his career. He simply wasn't as good a player after his elbow injury in the early 2000s. The problem is that even at 70% of his prime, he was still good enough to be effective to play for another decade. Most other players, once they pass their prime - Ponting, etc, fade away within a year or so. And many today remember the Tendulkar from the 2nd half of his career, forgetting the absolute dominance of the 1992-2002 timeframe.
Edit: Here's a link to an article about the Chennai test - it was around 20 years ago and Cricinfo's done a decent write-up on it. Bit of a long read, but good one if you like to read - http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1172609
Those examples of Tendulkar winning a match single handed are him getting out and leaving someone else to finish?
Tendulkar has lots of points in his favour for best since Bradman. So does Lara. So does Ponting. So does Waugh. So does Kallis. So does Richards. So does Sobers. So does Dravid. There just isn't the clear separation between those players that you claim.
@Cyclops said in Black Caps v India:
@newsjunkie said in Black Caps v India:
@akan004 said in Black Caps v India:
@newsjunkie The problem with Sachin was that he almost always failed during a tight chase. Hence why I rate Lara and Kohli ahead of him. They perform when the pressure is on.
This is a myth. Neither Lara nor Kohli open the innings in ODIs, and both have "failed" in plenty of chases. Lara's 153 against Aus in a test chase gets him a lot of deserved credit, but few remember that he was dropped towards the end. By Contrast Tendulkar's magnificent 136 in the 4th innings against Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain in their absolute pomp, with back spasms - fell short by 17 runs. Tendulkar scored 98 in a must-win WC game in 2003 against Pakistan - he was lucky enough that Dravid and Kaif finished the game behind him.
There are literally dozens of instances where Tendulkar won the match single-handedly for India - in tests and ODIs. But confirmation bias is a powerful thing.
All that being said, Tendulkar did have his mental frailties, especially in the 2nd half of his career. He simply wasn't as good a player after his elbow injury in the early 2000s. The problem is that even at 70% of his prime, he was still good enough to be effective to play for another decade. Most other players, once they pass their prime - Ponting, etc, fade away within a year or so. And many today remember the Tendulkar from the 2nd half of his career, forgetting the absolute dominance of the 1992-2002 timeframe.
Edit: Here's a link to an article about the Chennai test - it was around 20 years ago and Cricinfo's done a decent write-up on it. Bit of a long read, but good one if you like to read - http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1172609
Those examples of Tendulkar winning a match single handed are him getting out and leaving someone else to finish?
Tendulkar has lots of points in his favour for best since Bradman. So does Lara. So does Ponting. So does Waugh. So does Kallis. So does Richards. So does Sobers. So does Dravid. There just isn't the clear separation between those players that you claim.
Hence my initial point about him not even clearly being the best of his era.
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@Gunner said in Black Caps v India:
This Tendulkar v Lara argument is putting me to sleep.
Someone give me a nudge when we’re back talking about Black Caps v India.
Ta.Bit hard when it doesn't start til tomorrow but I'd say the team with the most runs will win.
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v India:
This Tendulkar v Lara argument is putting me to sleep.
Someone give me a nudge when we’re back talking about Black Caps v India.
Ta.Bit hard when it doesn't start til tomorrow but I'd say the team with the most runs will win.
Unless
DRSDLS ... -
@newsjunkie my opinion is that in a discussion involving an impossibly subjective verdict, allocating and inferring a mental shortcoming says more about you than your opinion.
We call it playing the ball and not the man.
Both Lara and Sachin were magnificent, and displayed their mastery differently. Admiring the pair of them needn't be a zero sum game.
Yep the fence is the best vantage place to compare 2 titans
@Siam said in Black Caps v India:
my opinion is that in a discussion involving an impossibly subjective verdict, allocating and inferring a mental shortcoming says more about you than your opinion.
We call it playing the ball and not the man.Fair point.
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This Tendulkar v Lara argument is putting me to sleep.
Someone give me a nudge when we’re back talking about Black Caps v India.
Ta.@Gunner said in Black Caps v India:
This Tendulkar v Lara argument is putting me to sleep.
Someone give me a nudge when we’re back talking about Black Caps v India.
Ta.Agree. It's like listening to people argue the toss between an Envy apple and a Jazz apple.
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@Gunner said in Black Caps v India:
This Tendulkar v Lara argument is putting me to sleep.
Someone give me a nudge when we’re back talking about Black Caps v India.
Ta.Agree. It's like listening to people argue the toss between an Envy apple and a Jazz apple.
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v India:
This Tendulkar v Lara argument is putting me to sleep.
Someone give me a nudge when we’re back talking about Black Caps v India.
Ta.Agree. It's like listening to people argue the toss between an Envy apple and a Jazz apple.
Gala apple motherfucker!!!
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@shark said in Black Caps v India:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v India:
This Tendulkar v Lara argument is putting me to sleep.
Someone give me a nudge when we’re back talking about Black Caps v India.
Ta.Agree. It's like listening to people argue the toss between an Envy apple and a Jazz apple.
Gala apple motherfucker!!!
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v India:
This Tendulkar v Lara argument is putting me to sleep.
Someone give me a nudge when we’re back talking about Black Caps v India.
Ta.Agree. It's like listening to people argue the toss between an Envy apple and a Jazz apple.
Gala apple motherfucker!!!
Jazz all the way baby
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Fuji apples - that's where its at!
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@shark said in Black Caps v India:
Actually, apples are far more interesting than Lara VS Tendulkar!
The fuck they are.
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
Actually, apples are far more interesting than Lara VS Tendulkar!
The fuck they are.
You're boring me cob
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
Actually, apples are far more interesting than Lara VS Tendulkar!
The fuck they are.
You're boring me cob
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v India:
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
Actually, apples are far more interesting than Lara VS Tendulkar!
The fuck they are.
You're boring me cob
Apples bore me.
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@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v India:
This Tendulkar v Lara argument is putting me to sleep.
Someone give me a nudge when we’re back talking about Black Caps v India.
Ta.Agree. It's like listening to people argue the toss between an Envy apple and a Jazz apple.
Gala apple motherfucker!!!
Jazz all the way baby
@nzzp said in Black Caps v India:
@mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:
@shark said in Black Caps v India:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v India:
This Tendulkar v Lara argument is putting me to sleep.
Someone give me a nudge when we’re back talking about Black Caps v India.
Ta.Agree. It's like listening to people argue the toss between an Envy apple and a Jazz apple.
Gala apple motherfucker!!!
Jazz all the way baby
I'm old school, cox's orange when I can get crunchy ones have the best flavour. Braeburns are not far behind, Jazz are consistently sweet and crunchy (remind me of splendours) the kids love them. There is an all red variety which are pretty nice too. Can't beat tree fresh apples. Unfortunately I haven't got a regular source
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So Guppy is outta tomorrow's game and Stuff believes Munro will come back in. What a waste of an opportunity to try another opener against the last really good attack we face before the World Cup. Munro had well and truly played himself out of the squad so for mine the fluffybunny stays out of the squad until he does something to warrant re-inclusion.
He's about to bat for the Aces v Knights so we'll see what he does here. -
So Guppy is outta tomorrow's game and Stuff believes Munro will come back in. What a waste of an opportunity to try another opener against the last really good attack we face before the World Cup. Munro had well and truly played himself out of the squad so for mine the fluffybunny stays out of the squad until he does something to warrant re-inclusion.
He's about to bat for the Aces v Knights so we'll see what he does here.@shark history tells us with the Black Caps that if Munro plays he will score a quick fire fifty and cement his spot in the WC squad.
