2020 All Blacks Squad
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@Chester-Draws :
Luke Jacobson was captain and blindside flanker of the 2017 U20 ABs. As the 2018 Super Rugby rounds progressed, he was more and more involved and was a regular starter by the end of the season. He looks like a young Liam Messam IMO.
I don't rated his brother who was Waikato's openside flanker during the Mitre 10 Cup.I confess I confused the two brothers. I was overseas for the last Super 12 and missed those games. I wasn't hugely impressed with Luke previously when he played for Waikato (although given the disaster that season was, perhaps that wasn't an ideal time for him to shine).
I did watch Liam Messam play as a young man. He had lightening top speed (I remember a commentator mentioning that he wasn't quick for a forward, he was quick full-stop, one of the reasons he was so good at Sevens). But he was light and an openside, as I recall -- he put on a lot of weight and changed sides before he was anywhere near good enough to be an AB. If Jacobson looks like a "young Messam" then he's a few years yet off making the ABs.
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I confess I confused the two brothers. I was overseas for the last Super 12 and missed those games. I wasn't hugely impressed with Luke previously when he played for Waikato (although given the disaster that season was, perhaps that wasn't an ideal time for him to shine).
I did watch Liam Messam play as a young man. He had lightening top speed (I remember a commentator mentioning that he wasn't quick for a forward, he was quick full-stop, one of the reasons he was so good at Sevens). But he was light and an openside, as I recall -- he put on a lot of weight and changed sides before he was anywhere near good enough to be an AB. If Jacobson looks like a "young Messam" then he's a few years yet off making the ABs.
@Chester-Draws said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
I confess I confused the two brothers. I was overseas for the last Super 12 and missed those games. I wasn't hugely impressed with Luke previously when he played for Waikato (although given the disaster that season was, perhaps that wasn't an ideal time for him to shine).
I did watch Liam Messam play as a young man. He had lightening top speed (I remember a commentator mentioning that he wasn't quick for a forward, he was quick full-stop, one of the reasons he was so good at Sevens). But he was light and an openside, as I recall -- he put on a lot of weight and changed sides before he was anywhere near good enough to be an AB. If Jacobson looks like a "young Messam" then he's a few years yet off making the ABs.
Young Messam had about three seasons of arguments about whether he was a loosie or a midfield.
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Add the name Dane Coles to the 2020 All Blacks squad:
https://twitter.com/AllBlacks/status/1088197264898547712?s=20
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@Bones said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Why do people keep insisting Goodhue is a 12?
Because, just like us backs think 1 and 3 are interchangeable, dumb ex forwards thing 12 and 13 are as well.
As an aside, Nonu showed the other day that in the current game even a small loss of first steps pace through age will be exposed by a younger skilled player in the wider channels.
There was a good reason that Umaga moved from 14 to 13 to 12 as he got older. -
@Bones said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Why do people keep insisting Goodhue is a 12?
Because, just like us backs think 1 and 3 are interchangeable, dumb ex forwards thing 12 and 13 are as well.
As an aside, Nonu showed the other day that in the current game even a small loss of first steps pace through age will be exposed by a younger skilled player in the wider channels.
There was a good reason that Umaga moved from 14 to 13 to 12 as he got older.@Crucial said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Bones said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Why do people keep insisting Goodhue is a 12?
Because, just like us backs think 1 and 3 are interchangeable, dumb ex forwards thing 12 and 13 are as well.
As an aside, Nonu showed the other day that in the current game even a small loss of first steps pace through age will be exposed by a younger skilled player in the wider channels.
There was a good reason that Umaga moved from 14 to 13 to 12 as he got older.I always thought Nonu looked far more at home at 12 than 13 , even during his peak ,
Even though he started as a 13
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@Crucial said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Bones said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Why do people keep insisting Goodhue is a 12?
Because, just like us backs think 1 and 3 are interchangeable, dumb ex forwards thing 12 and 13 are as well.
As an aside, Nonu showed the other day that in the current game even a small loss of first steps pace through age will be exposed by a younger skilled player in the wider channels.
There was a good reason that Umaga moved from 14 to 13 to 12 as he got older.I always thought Nonu looked far more at home at 12 than 13 , even during his peak ,
Even though he started as a 13
@kiwiinmelb said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Crucial said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Bones said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Why do people keep insisting Goodhue is a 12?
Because, just like us backs think 1 and 3 are interchangeable, dumb ex forwards thing 12 and 13 are as well.
As an aside, Nonu showed the other day that in the current game even a small loss of first steps pace through age will be exposed by a younger skilled player in the wider channels.
There was a good reason that Umaga moved from 14 to 13 to 12 as he got older.I always thought Nonu looked far more at home at 12 than 13 , even during his peak ,
Even though he started as a 13
True, but agree with @Crucial's general point.
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Anyone not picking ALB long term in midfield is mentally deficient
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@kiwiinmelb said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Crucial said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Bones said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Why do people keep insisting Goodhue is a 12?
Because, just like us backs think 1 and 3 are interchangeable, dumb ex forwards thing 12 and 13 are as well.
As an aside, Nonu showed the other day that in the current game even a small loss of first steps pace through age will be exposed by a younger skilled player in the wider channels.
There was a good reason that Umaga moved from 14 to 13 to 12 as he got older.I always thought Nonu looked far more at home at 12 than 13 , even during his peak ,
Even though he started as a 13
True, but agree with @Crucial's general point.
@pakman said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@kiwiinmelb said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Crucial said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Bones said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Why do people keep insisting Goodhue is a 12?
Because, just like us backs think 1 and 3 are interchangeable, dumb ex forwards thing 12 and 13 are as well.
As an aside, Nonu showed the other day that in the current game even a small loss of first steps pace through age will be exposed by a younger skilled player in the wider channels.
There was a good reason that Umaga moved from 14 to 13 to 12 as he got older.I always thought Nonu looked far more at home at 12 than 13 , even during his peak ,
Even though he started as a 13
True, but agree with @Crucial's general point.
Definitely , I wasnt disputing that at all , more enforcing it that the positions are different
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So which midfielders will be gone next year?
Proctor is definitely off, and Crotty is supposed to be going? I assume that SBW is gone too.
ALB and Laumape are signed for next year, and Goodhue is likely to stay.
That leaves these players:
1st choice
ALB
Goodhue
LaumapeContenders:
Braydon Ennor
TJ Faiane (size?)
Rob Thompson (solid but what more? hasn't signed yet)
Vince AsoAny more? We have three good players, but not much depth. Is Michael Little worth a look?
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So which midfielders will be gone next year?
Proctor is definitely off, and Crotty is supposed to be going? I assume that SBW is gone too.
ALB and Laumape are signed for next year, and Goodhue is likely to stay.
That leaves these players:
1st choice
ALB
Goodhue
LaumapeContenders:
Braydon Ennor
TJ Faiane (size?)
Rob Thompson (solid but what more? hasn't signed yet)
Vince AsoAny more? We have three good players, but not much depth. Is Michael Little worth a look?
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2020, 33 players
Joe Moody, Karl Tuinukuafe, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Atu Moli, Tyrel Lomax, Nepo Laulala
Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Asafo Aumua
Pat Tuipulotu, Isaia-Walker Leawere, Scott Barrett, Pari-Pari Parkinson
Shanon Frizell, Dalton Papali'i, Ardie Savea, Sam Cane (if he can), Luke Whitelock, Akira Ioane
Ere Enari, TJ Perenara, Te Toira Tahuriorangi (maybe Aaron Smith ?)
Richie Mo'unga, Damian McKenzie
Ngani Laumape, Jordie Barrett, Anton Lienert-Brown, Jack Goodhue
Rieko Ioane, George Bridge, Will Jordan, Manasa Mataele, David Havili
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2020, 33 players
Joe Moody, Karl Tuinukuafe, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Atu Moli, Tyrel Lomax, Nepo Laulala
Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Asafo Aumua
Pat Tuipulotu, Isaia-Walker Leawere, Scott Barrett, Pari-Pari Parkinson
Shanon Frizell, Dalton Papali'i, Ardie Savea, Sam Cane (if he can), Luke Whitelock, Akira Ioane
Ere Enari, TJ Perenara, Te Toira Tahuriorangi (maybe Aaron Smith ?)
Richie Mo'unga, Damian McKenzie
Ngani Laumape, Jordie Barrett, Anton Lienert-Brown, Jack Goodhue
Rieko Ioane, George Bridge, Will Jordan, Manasa Mataele, David Havili
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What about that McLeod guy from Canterbury? Never seen him play, but he's bloody good.
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What about that McLeod guy from Canterbury? Never seen him play, but he's bloody good.
@Crazy-Horse said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
What about that McLeod guy from Canterbury? Never seen him play, but he's bloody good.
He's got sweet feet and a bullet skip pass.
Not that anyone's seen it.
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@Calabas you could probably add Vince Aso to that equation, can cover 12, 13 and both wings. Would have him ahead of Mataele.
First five looks a major worry
@Canes4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Calabas you could probably add Vince Aso to that equation, can cover 12, 13 and both wings. Would have him ahead of Mataele.
First five looks a major worry
Agree. It will be interesting to see how someone like Josh Ioane goes until then. At this stage, he's the frontrunner for the third spot for me, but still a lot of water to go under the bridge. Harry Plummer and Jack Debreczeni will be worth a look, too (and maybe I should mention Brett Cameron, although only because he has been capped, not because I've actually seen a reason why he should be). And who knows, what happens during this year's M10 Cup and the 2020 SR season. Tiaan Falcon has potential, but he has to stay in one piece first and show it on the paddock.
As to outside backs, Aso is more versatile, but Mataele is the better wing. I think Alaimalo is worth a look, too. And who knows, maybe by the end of the SR season, Sevu Reece may be on the ABs radar, too.
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@Canes4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Calabas you could probably add Vince Aso to that equation, can cover 12, 13 and both wings. Would have him ahead of Mataele.
First five looks a major worry
Agree. It will be interesting to see how someone like Josh Ioane goes until then. At this stage, he's the frontrunner for the third spot for me, but still a lot of water to go under the bridge. Harry Plummer and Jack Debreczeni will be worth a look, too (and maybe I should mention Brett Cameron, although only because he has been capped, not because I've actually seen a reason why he should be). And who knows, what happens during this year's M10 Cup and the 2020 SR season. Tiaan Falcon has potential, but he has to stay in one piece first and show it on the paddock.
As to outside backs, Aso is more versatile, but Mataele is the better wing. I think Alaimalo is worth a look, too. And who knows, maybe by the end of the SR season, Sevu Reece may be on the ABs radar, too.
@Stargazer TJ Va'a
I'd prefer Aso. He was deadly on the right wing for the Canes in 2017 (second top try scorer in Super) and has a calmness about him that would help him thrive in the All Blacks. Hansen said he would have selected him last year if it wasn't for his injury. If you have Bridge and Jordan, then there is no need for Havili aswell. Aso at 101kg offers that point of difference.
