2019 under 20's
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@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
@antipodean That link goes to an old file dated 1 July 2016.
Here's the more recent document: https://www.world.rugby/handbook/regulations/reg-8/reg-8
Footnote:(3) With effect from January 1, 2018, Unions will no longer be permitted to name its Under 20s National Representative Team as that Union’s next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team.
Cheers. I recall hearing something about that. Shows how incompetent World Rugby are to keep outdated information available on their website.
My point still stands on residential requirements.
@antipodean said in 2019 under 20's:
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
@antipodean That link goes to an old file dated 1 July 2016.
My point still stands on residential requirements.
Yes. I hope that the Ferner who posted that the residency requirement only starts to run from the moment a player leaves school if he hasn't moved to the new country (as a minor) with his family, can refer us to an actual regulation or WR / NZR document. I've never been able to find it.
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Connor garden bachop gone back home to Wellington. Obviously got the chop from crusaders as well
@chchfanatic superb, he looks like a great prospect. Welcome home son.
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@chchfanatic Yes, he played for Hurricanes U20 last weekend.
@Stargazer at Fullback or Wing? I remember him being lightning quick and he had a good skillset when he played for Scots. Looks to be fairly solid now aswell, even looks bigger than his big bro.
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@Stargazer at Fullback or Wing? I remember him being lightning quick and he had a good skillset when he played for Scots. Looks to be fairly solid now aswell, even looks bigger than his big bro.
@Canes4life At fullback.
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So looking at this squad strongest 15 to look maybe like this.
15 Etene Nanai Seturo/ Kaleb Trask
14 Leicester Faingaanuku
13 Quinn Tupaea
12 Dallas McLeod
11 Caleb Clarke
10 Lincoln McClutchie
9 Taufa Funaki
8 Devan Flanders
7 Sam Dickson
6 Cullen Grace
5 Sam Darry
4 Tupou Vaa'i
3 Rob Cobb
2 Kianu Kereru Symes
1 Kaliopasi UluilakepaStrength maybe F/R (don't laugh) but a lot of experience in the squad, I think we will hold our own at scrum time which is all we need.
Mid-field and outside backs, a lot of experience and firepower.Issues - Inside backs. Yes they are good players but this is a different level and not sure if they can dominate it.
-Locks/Jumpers. I think lineouts could be a problem. Not a much depth, coaches are going to need to be smart here. -
So looking at this squad strongest 15 to look maybe like this.
15 Etene Nanai Seturo/ Kaleb Trask
14 Leicester Faingaanuku
13 Quinn Tupaea
12 Dallas McLeod
11 Caleb Clarke
10 Lincoln McClutchie
9 Taufa Funaki
8 Devan Flanders
7 Sam Dickson
6 Cullen Grace
5 Sam Darry
4 Tupou Vaa'i
3 Rob Cobb
2 Kianu Kereru Symes
1 Kaliopasi UluilakepaStrength maybe F/R (don't laugh) but a lot of experience in the squad, I think we will hold our own at scrum time which is all we need.
Mid-field and outside backs, a lot of experience and firepower.Issues - Inside backs. Yes they are good players but this is a different level and not sure if they can dominate it.
-Locks/Jumpers. I think lineouts could be a problem. Not a much depth, coaches are going to need to be smart here.@98blueandgold Or Danny Toala at 12 or 15.
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So looking at this squad strongest 15 to look maybe like this.
15 Etene Nanai Seturo/ Kaleb Trask
14 Leicester Faingaanuku
13 Quinn Tupaea
12 Dallas McLeod
11 Caleb Clarke
10 Lincoln McClutchie
9 Taufa Funaki
8 Devan Flanders
7 Sam Dickson
6 Cullen Grace
5 Sam Darry
4 Tupou Vaa'i
3 Rob Cobb
2 Kianu Kereru Symes
1 Kaliopasi UluilakepaStrength maybe F/R (don't laugh) but a lot of experience in the squad, I think we will hold our own at scrum time which is all we need.
Mid-field and outside backs, a lot of experience and firepower.Issues - Inside backs. Yes they are good players but this is a different level and not sure if they can dominate it.
-Locks/Jumpers. I think lineouts could be a problem. Not a much depth, coaches are going to need to be smart here.@98blueandgold Kaylum Boshier?? Billy Proctor at centre??
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@98blueandgold Or Danny Toala at 12 or 15.
@Stargazer Toala is only a Fullback option after watching him imo, his D is just not good enough and he needs more space which fullback would give. Issue is can he beat out Nanai or Trask??
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@98blueandgold Kaylum Boshier?? Billy Proctor at centre??
@Canes4life Yeah could see Boshier in there as with Proctor who was in squad last year and will be this year as well. Tupaea impressed me no-end in ITM and is just bigger and better spatial awareness than Proctor. I could see them starting Proctor and Tupaea but I mentioned previously McLeod is a sleeper who I have seen a few times dominate games and outplay Proctor/Toala etc by a large distance which is why I say he might start IMO.
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@Canes4life Yeah could see Boshier in there as with Proctor who was in squad last year and will be this year as well. Tupaea impressed me no-end in ITM and is just bigger and better spatial awareness than Proctor. I could see them starting Proctor and Tupaea but I mentioned previously McLeod is a sleeper who I have seen a few times dominate games and outplay Proctor/Toala etc by a large distance which is why I say he might start IMO.
@98blueandgold Fair call. That young McLeod fella looks very good and didn't look out of place in that pre season Levin game - he will most probably start at 12 leaving Tupaea and Proctor to battle it out for the 13 jersey. I guess if you want more flare on attack you go with Tupaea, but if you want someone who is rock solid on D then you go with Proctor IMO.
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@Stargazer Toala is only a Fullback option after watching him imo, his D is just not good enough and he needs more space which fullback would give. Issue is can he beat out Nanai or Trask??
@98blueandgold How many games have you seen him play?
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@98blueandgold How many games have you seen him play?
@Stargazer over the last couple years about 6 live games. Just every game I watch he shows improvement and seems to play better against better players.
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@cgrant I thought Uluilakepa could play both? im probably wrong though.
@98blueandgold I saw him play loose head once and he got demolished. With the right coaching / mentoring this guy has the potential to be a beast though.
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@antipodean said in 2019 under 20's:
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
@antipodean That link goes to an old file dated 1 July 2016.
My point still stands on residential requirements.
Yes. I hope that the Ferner who posted that the residency requirement only starts to run from the moment a player leaves school if he hasn't moved to the new country (as a minor) with his family, can refer us to an actual regulation or WR / NZR document. I've never been able to find it.
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
@antipodean said in 2019 under 20's:
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
@antipodean That link goes to an old file dated 1 July 2016.
My point still stands on residential requirements.
Yes. I hope that the Ferner who posted that the residency requirement only starts to run from the moment a player leaves school if he hasn't moved to the new country (as a minor) with his family, can refer us to an actual regulation or WR / NZR document. I've never been able to find it.
https://www.world.rugby/news/155038?lang=en
14. How is the Residence criteria satisfied?
Regulation 8.1(c) requires a Player to complete 60 consecutive months of Residence immediately preceding the time of playing . Regulation 8(d) requires a Player to complete 10 years of cumulative Residence preceding the time of playing⁴. Residence is defined as “the place or location in which the Player has his primary and permanent home” and Resident shall be construed accordingly. In essence, Regulation 8.1(c) and Regulation 8.1(d) constitute a sporting naturalization procedure, based on a geographical/presence test. As in any naturalisation process, a number of factors will influence the determination of what constitutes a Player’s permanent and primary home. Such factors include, but are not limited to, the actual time spent in a country and the purpose of any absences during the qualification period. By being Resident in a country for a period of 60 consecutive months⁵ immediately preceding the time of playing for a Union, or 10 cumulative years over the course of the Player’s lifetime, a Player is deemed to acquire a credible, close and established national link with a country or Union that entitles him to participate in sporting competitions for that Union. Based on the overriding rationale of the eligibility Regulations, in cases where a Player’s eligibility is uncertain the Regulations Committee will consider that Player’s eligibility by reference to the particular facts and circumstances of his case to establish if the Residency test, in the context of the overall rationale of the eligibility Regulations, has been satisfied. The principles set out in responses to the questions below will act as guidelines to the Regulations Committee when it is asked to consider any cases pursuant to this criterion.
19. What is the position of students?
As far as students are concerned, particularly those that are not financially independent, being resident, as a full-time student, in another country, is likely to be considered as a series of temporary absences from the parental home. It is anticipated that in the majority of cases involving students the parental home is likely to continue to constitute the student’s permanent and primary home. Accordingly, attendance at college/university in such circumstances is unlikely to break a Player’s consecutive period of Residence. However, as in all matters of eligibility, the overriding concern of the Regulations Committee in assessing any such case will be to ensure that there remains a close, credible and established link with the country in which the Player claims to have retained his primary and permanent home. There could be circumstances in which a student living in another country may be deemed to have interrupted his Residency period.
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@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
Players unavailable due to Super Rugby and Sevens commitments
Caleb Clarke (Blues), Etene Nanai Seturo (Chiefs), Billy Proctor (Hurricanes), Leicester Faingaanuku (Crusaders), Scott Gregory (All Blacks Sevens)so they are unavailable for the trial, but will they be made available for selection of the squad for the Cup?
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@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
@antipodean said in 2019 under 20's:
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
@antipodean That link goes to an old file dated 1 July 2016.
My point still stands on residential requirements.
Yes. I hope that the Ferner who posted that the residency requirement only starts to run from the moment a player leaves school if he hasn't moved to the new country (as a minor) with his family, can refer us to an actual regulation or WR / NZR document. I've never been able to find it.
https://www.world.rugby/news/155038?lang=en
14. How is the Residence criteria satisfied?
Regulation 8.1(c) requires a Player to complete 60 consecutive months of Residence immediately preceding the time of playing . Regulation 8(d) requires a Player to complete 10 years of cumulative Residence preceding the time of playing⁴. Residence is defined as “the place or location in which the Player has his primary and permanent home” and Resident shall be construed accordingly. In essence, Regulation 8.1(c) and Regulation 8.1(d) constitute a sporting naturalization procedure, based on a geographical/presence test. As in any naturalisation process, a number of factors will influence the determination of what constitutes a Player’s permanent and primary home. Such factors include, but are not limited to, the actual time spent in a country and the purpose of any absences during the qualification period. By being Resident in a country for a period of 60 consecutive months⁵ immediately preceding the time of playing for a Union, or 10 cumulative years over the course of the Player’s lifetime, a Player is deemed to acquire a credible, close and established national link with a country or Union that entitles him to participate in sporting competitions for that Union. Based on the overriding rationale of the eligibility Regulations, in cases where a Player’s eligibility is uncertain the Regulations Committee will consider that Player’s eligibility by reference to the particular facts and circumstances of his case to establish if the Residency test, in the context of the overall rationale of the eligibility Regulations, has been satisfied. The principles set out in responses to the questions below will act as guidelines to the Regulations Committee when it is asked to consider any cases pursuant to this criterion.
19. What is the position of students?
As far as students are concerned, particularly those that are not financially independent, being resident, as a full-time student, in another country, is likely to be considered as a series of temporary absences from the parental home. It is anticipated that in the majority of cases involving students the parental home is likely to continue to constitute the student’s permanent and primary home. Accordingly, attendance at college/university in such circumstances is unlikely to break a Player’s consecutive period of Residence. However, as in all matters of eligibility, the overriding concern of the Regulations Committee in assessing any such case will be to ensure that there remains a close, credible and established link with the country in which the Player claims to have retained his primary and permanent home. There could be circumstances in which a student living in another country may be deemed to have interrupted his Residency period.
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@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
Players unavailable due to Super Rugby and Sevens commitments
Caleb Clarke (Blues), Etene Nanai Seturo (Chiefs), Billy Proctor (Hurricanes), Leicester Faingaanuku (Crusaders), Scott Gregory (All Blacks Sevens)so they are unavailable for the trial, but will they be made available for selection of the squad for the Cup?
@taniwharugby That is usually what happens unless their Super side desperately needs their services.
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@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
Players unavailable due to Super Rugby and Sevens commitments
Caleb Clarke (Blues), Etene Nanai Seturo (Chiefs), Billy Proctor (Hurricanes), Leicester Faingaanuku (Crusaders), Scott Gregory (All Blacks Sevens)so they are unavailable for the trial, but will they be made available for selection of the squad for the Cup?
@taniwharugby said in 2019 under 20's:
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
Players unavailable due to Super Rugby and Sevens commitments
Caleb Clarke (Blues), Etene Nanai Seturo (Chiefs), Billy Proctor (Hurricanes), Leicester Faingaanuku (Crusaders), Scott Gregory (All Blacks Sevens)so they are unavailable for the trial, but will they be made available for selection of the squad for the Cup?
That's a good question. Jordie Barrett wasn't made available for the second year (2017) he was eligible for the NZU20, was he?
I guess it depends on a player's status within the team. If he's in the match day 23 regularly, or if there are many injuries, you'll have good reason to doubt he'll be available for the NZ U20s. If I'd have to guess, I'd say it's more likely that Proctor and Faingaanuku will play at the JWC than Clarke and Nanai Seturo. Gregory might be released from the AB7s for the last leg of the World Series, depending on the return of now injured players.
Edit: correction. Jordie Barrett made the AB7s in 2017.
